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View Full Version : Arrested for "pointing gun."


ConcernedCitizen
07-28-2009, 10:49 AM
I know better than to point the gun at anything I do not want to shoot and also know that felons are barred from legally owning firearms, but I didn't know you could be arrested for pointing or brandishing a gun.

Can anyone provide details on this crime?

Ventura man accused of pointing gun during argument
Crime Central
Santa Paula police arrested a 24-year-old Ventura man on suspicion of brandishing a firearm, officials said Monday.

Police said they were called to an apartment in the 400 block of Ojai Road about 11:40 a.m. Sunday after a man reported that another person had pointed a shotgun at him during an argument.

Police said they saw Anthony Aguirre leaving as they arrived.

Police arrested Aguirre in connection with the incident. Aguirre was taken to county jail, where authorities said he was also facing charges of being a convicted felon in possession of a firearm and ammunition.

Police said they later searched the apartment where the argument took place and found a loaded sawed-off shotgun, a .32-caliber handgun and ammunition for both weapons. The victim alleged Aguirre brandished the shotgun at him, according to police.

Aguirre remained in custody on Monday on bail of $60,000.

Liberty1
07-28-2009, 10:50 AM
Read PC 417. Looks like he has more problems then just brandishing.

and since you did not know about that law I would recommend reading "How to own a gun and stay out of jail".

AJAX22
07-28-2009, 10:52 AM
Yep,

and there have been some very very broad interpretations of 'brandishing' which have held up.

BroncoBob
07-28-2009, 10:52 AM
Now that is stupid with a plus of having a sawed off shotgun!

Aldemar
07-28-2009, 11:22 AM
The "felon in possession" is bad enough, the sawed-off shotgun is just icing on the cake. This guy obviously didn't DROS these. Wonder how much time this is worth; isn't that 2 strikes right there? Surprised the bail is only 60K.

+1 on the book "How To Own A Gun And Stay Out Of Jail". There is a California edition.

cmaynes
07-28-2009, 11:26 AM
The "felon in possession" is bad enough, the sawed-off shotgun is just icing on the cake. This guy obviously didn't DROS these. Wonder how much time this is worth; isn't that 2 strikes right there? Surprised the bail is only 60K.

+1 on the book "How To Own A Gun And Stay Out Of Jail". There is a California edition.

and he gets a federal charge on the AOW....


chlorine for the gene pool.

M1A Rifleman
07-28-2009, 11:26 AM
Sure can. If you are carrying a gun, for instance UOC, and gesture toward your holstered pistol in a threatening manner during a confrontation with another you may be accused of brandishing. Having a CCW does not exempt you from this rule either. Simply raising your shirt to exposed the concealed gun is grounds for a brandishing charge.

bodger
07-28-2009, 1:29 PM
+1 on the John Machtinger book.
Every gun owner in this state should read it.

Electric Factory
07-28-2009, 1:50 PM
Yep,

and there have been some very very broad interpretations of 'brandishing' which have held up.

I'm betting you don't have to point at anyone to be prosecuted for brandishing either. Wouldn't simply holding a handgun [down by your side and out of view ] qualify ?

Sure does take the oomph out of the inherent deterent value of a defensive firearm. Or am I missing something ?

xzw151
07-28-2009, 1:54 PM
Uh, if I were having a disagreement with someone and they pointed/pulled/brandished a gun (loaded or not, how would I know) at me I would certainly hope they got arrested, and from the sound of it this guy REALLY had it coming.

Electric Factory
07-28-2009, 1:56 PM
Uh, if I were having a disagreement with someone and they pointed/pulled/brandished a gun (loaded or not, how would I know) at me I would certainly hope they got arrested, and from the sound of it this guy REALLY had it coming.

I agree with you there.:eek:

Blackhawk556
07-28-2009, 2:21 PM
one more bad guy off the streets guys

"found a loaded sawed-off shotgun".. he was asking for it

SteveH
07-28-2009, 2:26 PM
Seen 417 and 245 both filed in such cases. The threatening display of the gun as 417. The actual pointing of the gun as 245.

jazman
07-28-2009, 2:27 PM
Yep. This is why when someone posts to "just show them your (shot) gun" or "just rack your shotgun when they can see it" I just shake my head. Fast way to go to jail.

HondaMasterTech
07-28-2009, 3:03 PM
Good. He sounds like a POS person.

Ground Loop
07-28-2009, 3:13 PM
I think the bar for "brandishing" is much lower than most people think.

Just a gesture and hostile tone, even implying that a gun could be brought to bear -- all likely to stick without even touching the weapon.

(And yeah, this guy sounds like a piece of work. Sawed off = see you later.)

RRangel
07-28-2009, 3:14 PM
Off the top of my head I think that's under PC 417. Yes, you can get yourself arrested for that. Especially that.

Maltese Falcon
07-28-2009, 3:21 PM
....okay, say your neighbor is in disagreement with you over something stupid (your tree is dropping leaves in his pool) and knows you have firearms. What's to prevent him from SAYING you brandished a weapon and causing untold hassle for you?

Maybe some LEOs can give us some insight on what would be their response.

Ron-Solo
07-28-2009, 3:25 PM
417. (a) (2) Every person who, except in self-defense, in the presence of
any other person, draws or exhibits any firearm, whether loaded or
unloaded, in a rude, angry, or threatening manner, or who in any
manner, unlawfully uses a firearm in any fight or quarrel is
punishable as follows:
(A) If the violation occurs in a public place and the firearm is a
pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon
the person, by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than three
months and not more than one year, by a fine not to exceed one
thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.
(B) In all cases other than that set forth in subparagraph (A), a
misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for not less
than three months.
(b) Every person who, except in self-defense, in the presence of
any other person, draws or exhibits any loaded firearm in a rude,
angry, or threatening manner, or who, in any manner, unlawfully uses
any loaded firearm in any fight or quarrel upon the grounds of any
day care center, as defined in Section 1596.76 of the Health and
Safety Code, or any facility where programs, including day care
programs or recreational programs, are being conducted for persons
under 18 years of age, including programs conducted by a nonprofit
organization, during the hours in which the center or facility is
open for use, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison
for 16 months, or two or three years, or by imprisonment in a county
jail for not less than three months, nor more than one year.
(c) Every person who, in the immediate presence of a peace
officer, draws or exhibits any firearm, whether loaded or unloaded,
in a rude, angry, or threatening manner, and who knows, or reasonably
should know, by the officer's uniformed appearance or other action
of identification by the officer, that he or she is a peace officer
engaged in the performance of his or her duties, and that peace
officer is engaged in the performance of his or her duties, shall be
punished by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than nine
months and not to exceed one year, or in the state prison.
(d) Except where a different penalty applies, every person who
violates this section when the other person is in the process of
cleaning up graffiti or vandalism is guilty of a misdemeanor,
punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than three
months nor more than one year.
(e) As used in this section, "peace officer" means any person
designated as a peace officer pursuant to Chapter 4.5 (commencing
with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2.
(f) As used in this section, "public place" means any of the
following:
(1) A public place in an incorporated city.
(2) A public street in an incorporated city.
(3) A public street in an unincorporated area.


Where it says State Prision that means that portion is punishable as a felony.

Fjold
07-28-2009, 3:31 PM
Of course any 18" barreled shotgun with a pistol grip is probably called a "sawed-off shotgun" by the press.

In any case I hope that this guy gets put away for a long time, hopefuly the three strikes law will come into effect here.

Ron-Solo
07-28-2009, 3:32 PM
....okay, say your neighbor is in disagreement with you over something stupid (your tree is dropping leaves in his pool) and knows you have firearms. What's to prevent him from SAYING you brandished a weapon and causing untold hassle for you?

Maybe some LEOs can give us some insight on what would be their response.

There's nothing to prevent him from saying it. IF we believe him or not is another story. Yes, it can be a hassle, but we always try to figure out who is telling the truth. Sometimes it takes a while, and sometimes we get it wrong. That's where the legal system comes in and a jury can decide.

I've had situations like that and have written my reports based on what each person has said. In a situation like you described,. the other party would have to make a private person's (citizens) arrest. Most people that are making up BS usually won't follow thru when we explain to them that they are the ones making the arrest and accepting all liability, and that we are just transporting and booking. When we know something is BS but the other party pushes it, we MUST accept the arrest by law. BUT, that doesn't mean we have to keep them in custody any longer than necessary to process the paperwork. I have released many a person after a "field booking" where we issue them a citation with a date to appear in court. (If they have good ID and no warrants)

This type of situation is where common sense and experience become a critical element of law enforcement.