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View Full Version : Does ammo consitute PC?


locosway
07-28-2009, 12:32 AM
Wondering if ammo or boxes full/empty constitute PC for search of a vehicle.

Eroland7
07-28-2009, 12:34 AM
No Way... If you have a pack of matches on your dash it doesnt give PC to search your car for dope, why would ammo give PC to search your car for guns? I wouldnt think so unless you had probation terms or something else that prohibited you from having a firearm in general that the officer knew about. Then it might constitute a search.

B.D.Dubloon
07-28-2009, 12:34 AM
Wondering if ammo or boxes full/empty constitute PC for search of a vehicle.

I am pretty sure not.

locosway
07-28-2009, 12:35 AM
Because usually nothing makes sense when dealing with the law, so I wanted to know because I've been LUCC lately in my truck and if I have ammo or w/e next to me I'd rather not have them poking around.

SVT-40
07-28-2009, 1:16 AM
Wondering if ammo or boxes full/empty constitute PC for search of a vehicle.

To many unknowns. There could be situations where it would be probable cause for a search, and other situations where it would not be.

I would be more concerned with criminals seeing the ammo boxes in your car, and them breaking in assuming there were guns in your car.

It's just to easy to put ammo in the trunk, or cover the boxes if they have to be left in the passenger compartment.

Plan ahead and be stealthy whenever you carry ammo or firearms in your vehicle.

trendar5
07-28-2009, 1:34 AM
At face value, with no other factors, I'd say no.

Ron-Solo
07-28-2009, 8:43 AM
Wondering if ammo or boxes full/empty constitute PC for search of a vehicle.

Too many variables. Keep the stuff put away and keep your stuff legal. Plain and simple.

Too many of your posts sound like a fishing expedition. Loco, if you continue to walk that fine line, eventually you will trip up and fall into the briar patch. I would prefer that did not happen.

It simply isn't that dangerous out there and some of you posts sound like paranoia. Good common sense and situational awareness is your best weapon. The times when a firearm is necessary for personal defense are extremely rare.

While I'm not saying 'never' I'm just a little concerned about you based on some of your intrepretations of the laws and Constitutional issues. You always seen to want to deal in absolutes, which don't work in the real world.

Fire in the Hole
07-28-2009, 6:02 PM
Ron, +1000 on you assessment of locosway.

locosway
07-28-2009, 11:09 PM
That's the funny thing about the internet, people never come across as how they are.

The only laws I break are the cell phone law and sometimes 5 over the limit when driving. Other than that, I'm squeaky clean.

I had only asked about the ammo because I picked up a can full of ammo and tossed it on the front seat of my truck. While I was driving I imagined a motor cop pulling up beside me and seeing the ammo.

So, I figured I'd ask and see what the real deal was on having ammo in the open. Apparently I'm a shady character because my posts are misconstrued.

BigDogatPlay
07-28-2009, 11:57 PM
No law against carrying ammo around, and by itself absent anything else I could articulate then I'd say no. Not to make a long story out of it but if I stop you I am going to ask about it if it's sitting out where I can see it.

No law against me doing that. :D

tyrist
07-29-2009, 12:59 AM
Are you referring to a terry search for weapon or an actual search?

GtvAlfaMan
06-27-2010, 3:16 PM
Hello, I live in Los Angeles county now and have recently purchased a 9mm pistol. I plan on LUCC everywhere that is legally possible. I have a few questions:
1. I will lock my unloaded handun in a soft side bag with a loaded magazine with a TSA padlock to secure the zipper closed. Is having a loaded magazine in the case with the gun illegal?
2. Must I keep the loaded magazine separate from the handun that is locked inside the case? I have heard having a loaded magazine stored inside your LUCC case constitutes a "loaded handun". Is this true?
Thanks for your answers.

yzernie
06-27-2010, 4:20 PM
LUCC....my question is why?

BigDogatPlay
06-27-2010, 4:20 PM
Hello, I live in Los Angeles county now and have recently purchased a 9mm pistol. I plan on LUCC everywhere that is legally possible. I have a few questions:
1. I will lock my unloaded handun in a soft side bag with a loaded magazine with a TSA padlock to secure the zipper closed. Is having a loaded magazine in the case with the gun illegal?

Which raises another interesting question.... is a soft bag a "locked container". Probably, and I don't have my hands on case law at present, but think of it in terms of PC 12026.1 (c)....

(c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock,
combination lock, or similar locking device.

You can have the loaded mag in the case with the gun. No problem with that.

2. Must I keep the loaded magazine separate from the handun that is locked inside the case? I have heard having a loaded magazine stored inside your LUCC case constitutes a "loaded handun". Is this true?
Thanks for your answers.

See People v. Clark on the Calguns wiki. Just having the mag in case with the gun does not make it loaded. That said.... you can not have the loaded mag inserted into the handle of the gun. If you do have the mag inserted, then you are carrying loaded and concealed and you are committing a crime unless you have a CCW permit or another exemption from PC 12025 and 12031.

ArticleTheFourth
06-27-2010, 4:37 PM
LUCC....my question is why?

Not being rude, but I would also ask why not since most kalifornian's get get a CCW permit? I wonder how many do LUCC.

yzernie
06-27-2010, 6:10 PM
Not being rude, but I would also ask why not since most kalifornian's get get a CCW permit? I wonder how many do LUCC.
No inflection in my voice and please do not read any into it. This is discussion only and from the perspective of someone who has 32+ years of experience. Anyone who knows anything about me knows I am very pro 2A, have had my FFL and have been selling guns of all kinds as a side business for a few years.

Quite simply, I just don't understand why folks voluntarily put themselves into a position where they are going to have contact with law enforcement. What I mean is this and I can only speak for SoCal...every time someone UOCs the switchboards light up at the dispatch centers and we get dispatched to "Man with a gun" call. Those types of calls make our minds race and if anyone says they don't suck up some seat cushion while enroute they are not being honest with themselves!!

The cops show up and sure enough, and sure enough there is a man with a sidearm strapped on. From a distance can you really tell if a slide is locked open and it is unloaded?...usually not. An encounter takes place and thankfully, the vast majority of the time things end well. Conversely, the results could be catastrophic for the UOC'er and the LEO but again, and thankfully, things usually end well.

Yes, it is within the law to UOC or ULCC but why? What is the reward?...because someone can? IMHO, there are other more effective ways to go about preserving our rights as gun owners.

As to the OP, ammo in your car may raise the curiosity of an LEO but like has been said, unless one is prohibited from possessing it then it is a non issue.

SJgunguy24
06-27-2010, 7:59 PM
That's the funny thing about the internet, people never come across as how they are.

The only laws I break are the cell phone law and sometimes 5 over the limit when driving. Other than that, I'm squeaky clean.

I had only asked about the ammo because I picked up a can full of ammo and tossed it on the front seat of my truck. While I was driving I imagined a motor cop pulling up beside me and seeing the ammo.

So, I figured I'd ask and see what the real deal was on having ammo in the open. Apparently I'm a shady character because my posts are misconstrued.

Generally I'd say most don't care but some do. I was pulled over once and I had 4 rifle cases in the back of my truck and 4-5 ammo cans. The Chippy just asked if I had anything in the cab I pointed at my range bag and he was cool. He wrote up the ticket and sent me on my way.
This was in Hayward too, an area not known for their pro LEO stance and the cops there tend to be on the.........strong side of crime fighting. I don't blame them though, Hayward has a huge gang problem.

Like Ron said, keep it stashed and don't worry about it.

Ron-Solo
06-27-2010, 10:40 PM
There is nothing wrong with fishing expeditions...
cops go on them all the time.

;)

To the OP...
Just having ammo in plain sight is not PC to search nor against the law (unless the person driving is somehow restricted from owning a firearm, and I'm not sure even that would be PC to search a vehicle).

What a necro post. Since the original post was over a year old, you may not be aware that the OP was restricted from posting in the LE forum for some of his posts, which were trolling to provoke incidents.

Once again, depending on the circumstances, ammo may or may not provide PC to search. Unless you are LE or an attorney, you probably lack the expertise to provide legitimate info for such a situation.

There was a reason this post died almost a year ago.

SVT-40
06-28-2010, 12:04 AM
Hello, I live in Los Angeles county now and have recently purchased a 9mm pistol. I plan on LUCC everywhere that is legally possible. I have a few questions:
1. I will lock my unloaded handun in a soft side bag with a loaded magazine with a TSA padlock to secure the zipper closed. Is having a loaded magazine in the case with the gun illegal?
2. Must I keep the loaded magazine separate from the handun that is locked inside the case? I have heard having a loaded magazine stored inside your LUCC case constitutes a "loaded handun". Is this true?
Thanks for your answers.

This poster also posted an almost identical post in another thread in the LEO forum.

Hello, I live near Los Angeles now and have recently purchased a 9mm handgun. I plan on carrying LUCC (Locked unloaded concealed carry), meaning I will place my unloaded handgun in a soft side zipper case with a TSA padlock to secure it. My questions are as follows:
1. Can the loaded magazine be stored inside the locking case with the unloaded gun? Or must the loaded magazine be carried separately (not inside the case with the gun).
2. Can I carry the loaded magazine in my pocket of my jacket or pants?
3. I plan on carrying LUCC everywhere I go, within the law. Can I carry LUCC while driving my car, at the supermarket, at a restaurant?
4. Is LUCC legal near a school zone?

I don't want to Open Carry at this time, just to avoid problems with our local overzealous police.
If anyone can answer the questions listed above, I will be grateful.
Thanks

ArticleTheFourth
06-28-2010, 1:01 PM
I do agree with you on UOC, that it has inherent PC for LEOs, but LUCC is not visible (the CC part) so no reason to be checked and the public isn't aware of what they can't see.

No inflection in my voice and please do not read any into it. This is discussion only and from the perspective of someone who has 32+ years of experience. Anyone who knows anything about me knows I am very pro 2A, have had my FFL and have been selling guns of all kinds as a side business for a few years.

Quite simply, I just don't understand why folks voluntarily put themselves into a position where they are going to have contact with law enforcement. What I mean is this and I can only speak for SoCal...every time someone UOCs the switchboards light up at the dispatch centers and we get dispatched to "Man with a gun" call. Those types of calls make our minds race and if anyone says they don't suck up some seat cushion while enroute they are not being honest with themselves!!

The cops show up and sure enough, and sure enough there is a man with a sidearm strapped on. From a distance can you really tell if a slide is locked open and it is unloaded?...usually not. An encounter takes place and thankfully, the vast majority of the time things end well. Conversely, the results could be catastrophic for the UOC'er and the LEO but again, and thankfully, things usually end well.

Yes, it is within the law to UOC or ULCC but why? What is the reward?...because someone can? IMHO, there are other more effective ways to go about preserving our rights as gun owners.

As to the OP, ammo in your car may raise the curiosity of an LEO but like has been said, unless one is prohibited from possessing it then it is a non issue.