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ipser
07-27-2009, 5:04 PM
I have a couple basic legal questions:

1) When transporting firearms, is a lock on the firearm equivalent to a locked case if the firearm cannot be loaded and fired without removing the lock? I'm referring specifically to the use of a child lock.

2) The AW flow chart begins with the assumption that the firearm in question is centerfire. Is a 22 rimfire rifle ever considered an AW? (If, for example, it is constructed of AR parts but with a 22LR upper such as that from Olympic Arms, which cannot fire 223, in other words, not just a kit installed in the 223 chamber.) Or is there an implicit test before the first bubble: "Is it a centerfire rifle?"

CHS
07-27-2009, 5:43 PM
I have a couple basic legal questions:

1) When transporting firearms, is a lock on the firearm equivalent to a locked case if the firearm cannot be loaded and fired without removing the lock? I'm referring specifically to the use of a child lock.


No. (NOTE: only handguns need to be transported in a locked container. Long guns only need to be transported unloaded.)


2) The AW flow chart begins with the assumption that the firearm in question is centerfire. Is a 22 rimfire rifle ever considered an AW?

No.

CHS
07-27-2009, 5:45 PM
This is my Non-AW:

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m446/bdsmchs/ar15-0282.jpg

.22lr AR (Tactical Solutions M4 .22lr dedicated upper) that has the capacity to accept detachable large-capacity magazines.

762cavalier
07-27-2009, 5:45 PM
I have a couple basic legal questions:

1) When transporting firearms, is a lock on the firearm equivalent to a locked case if the firearm cannot be loaded and fired without removing the lock? I'm referring specifically to the use of a child lock. NO must be in locked container

2) The AW flow chart begins with the assumption that the firearm in question is centerfire. Is a 22 rimfire rifle ever considered an AW? (If, for example, it is constructed of AR parts but with a 22LR upper such as that from Olympic Arms, which cannot fire 223, in other words, not just a kit installed in the 223 chamber.) Or is there an implicit test before the first bubble: "Is it a centerfire rifle?"No a rimfire never considered an assault weapon. Dedicated upper makes it a rimfire only.

Answered above.

ipser
07-27-2009, 6:18 PM
Thanks for the quick answers. I have what I need.

Now, if I may, I'd like to inquire further just to satisfy my curiosity.

On 1, what is the reasoning? You'd think that a childlock (with the cable running through the action and magazine well) would be sufficient to prevent any mischief as a locked container. (I drive a minivan to the range and so my "trunk" is the rear compartment of the van.)

On 2, do I interpret the answers correctly that the implicit "is this a centerfire" bubble goes first? (If so, I'd recomend adding that. If I build the rifle I have in mind I'd love to have the semi-"official" flowchart protection in the unlikely event I get stopped.)

Again, thanks for the answers. I'm glad I found this forum and look forward to chatting with everyone here.

Northern Lights
07-27-2009, 6:24 PM
What if you have a normal 5.56 but you have installed a .22lr conversion kit (just the BCG); is it now a rimfire, or is it still centerfire?

FastFinger
07-27-2009, 6:26 PM
Back up there....

It's about the use of the word "reasoning" in regards to CA firearm regulations, as in "reasoned laws." That quite simply is an oxymoron. There is no logical, or often even illogical, reasoning behind a lot of firearm laws.

ipser
07-27-2009, 6:28 PM
Back up there....

It's about the use of the word "reasoning" in regards to CA firearm regulations, as in "reasoned laws." That quite simply is an oxymoron. There is no logical, or often even illogical, reasoning behind a lot of firearm laws.

Ooops! My bad.

bwiese
07-27-2009, 6:29 PM
On 1, what is the reasoning? You'd think that a childlock (with the
cable running through the action and magazine well) would be
sufficient to prevent any mischief as a locked container. (I drive a
minivan to the range and so my "trunk" is the rear compartment of
the van.)

Never make the mistake of assuming gun control laws have valid reasons or logic. Legislators and their staffers know little about guns and many would prefer them encased in 600lbs of concrete.

On 2, do I interpret the answers correctly that the implicit "is
this a centerfire" bubble goes first? (If so, I'd recomend adding that.
If I build the rifle I have in mind I'd love to have the semi-"official" flowchart protection in the unlikely event I get stopped.)For a rifle not banned by make/model, the law says "semiautomatic centerfire rifles...." with certain configured suites of certain evil feautres are defined to be assault weapons (12276.1PC).

Since the rifle under discussion is not centerfire it falls out of the scope of the generic rifle-based AW definition.


What if you have a normal 5.56 but you have installed a .22lr conversion kit
(just the BCG); is it now a rimfire, or is it still centerfire?

If the gun is an operational 22LR rifle, it is a rimfire - thus, not a centerfire - rifle. The rifle "is what it is" at the time of examination. There are many 22LR AR conversion kits that are bolt assy + mag drop in and that use the rest of the AR intact.

I will note that 5.56mm/223 bbls are not as accurate for shooting 22LR as a custom 22LR bbl is since there's an extra ~.001" of 'bore slop' in a 223 bbl for shooting 22LR.

CHS
07-27-2009, 6:29 PM
On 1, what is the reasoning? You'd think that a childlock (with the cable running through the action and magazine well) would be sufficient to prevent any mischief as a locked container. (I drive a minivan to the range and so my "trunk" is the rear compartment of the van.)


There is no "reasoning", the law says "fully enclosed locked container" and then goes on to explain that a locking trunk to a vehicle also qualifies. Your minivan does not have a trunk, so it doesn't work.

A lock through the action or trigger guard is not exempted in the law.


On 2, do I interpret the answers correctly that the implicit "is this a centerfire" bubble goes first? (If so, I'd recomend adding that. If I build the rifle I have in mind I'd love to have the semi-"official" flowchart protection in the unlikely event I get stopped.)


Don't read the flowchart, read the law. The law regarding rifles explicitly says that to even be considered an AW to begin with, they have to be both semi-automatic and centerfire.

If it's not semi-automatic, and/or it's not centerfire, it cannot be an assault weapon.

CHS
07-27-2009, 6:32 PM
What if you have a normal 5.56 but you have installed a .22lr conversion kit (just the BCG); is it now a rimfire, or is it still centerfire?

It's rimfire, and as long as a conversion kit is installed I would feel comfortable running a bullet button wrench installed, or a raddlock backed out to position 2, using it actively at a shooting range.

But I would not feel comfortable transporting a semi-auto centerfire rifle with a conversion kit installed and a BB wrench or an unlocked raddlock. That's just asking for troubles.

bwiese
07-27-2009, 6:32 PM
If it's not semi-automatic, and/or it's not centerfire, it cannot be an assault weapon.

Correct, for rifles.

There is no rimfire exemption for semiauto pistols however.

CHS
07-27-2009, 6:33 PM
Don't read the flowchart, read the law. The law regarding rifles explicitly says that to even be considered an AW to begin with, they have to be both semi-automatic and centerfire.

If it's not semi-automatic, and/or it's not centerfire, it cannot be an assault weapon.

Correct, for rifles.

There is no rimfire exemption for semiauto pistols however.

Hence, the bolded part ;)

ipser
07-27-2009, 6:40 PM
Don't read the flowchart, read the law. The law regarding rifles explicitly says that to even be considered an AW to begin with, they have to be both semi-automatic and centerfire. If it's not semi-automatic, and/or it's not centerfire, it cannot be an assault weapon.

I'm being paranoid and thinking of having to explain my evil-looking semi-auto AR 22LR rifle to a LEO. I'd sure like to be able to whip out my handy Calguns flowchart and show him I'm cool.