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ocxpirate13
07-26-2009, 11:38 PM
What is the difference between the two companies' 1911s? I've looked at the specifications, and I see some differences, but are the differences really worth the price? For example, the Kimber 1911 that caught my eye was the Custom Covert II (http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/covert/custom_covert_II/), and the Wilson Combat 1911 was the CQB (http://www.wilsoncombat.com/p_cqb.asp). Now, looking at the pricing, what makes the Wilson Combat 1911 so much better that it costs almost double, or more than double the Kimber 1911's price?

wildhawker
07-26-2009, 11:50 PM
Handle and shoot them both. Then, buy a Baer ;)

ocxpirate13
07-27-2009, 12:25 AM
Handle and shoot them both. Then, buy a Baer ;)

Currently I am not looking to buy, I just want to gather information because I cannot fathom why Wilson Combat and Les Baer price their guns so high. I think the Kimber I chose is reasonably priced, but does it's lower price compared to the $2800+ Wilson Combat also mean it has lower quality? Or does Wilson Combat and Les Baer simply mark up the price of their handguns because it has their logo on it? Please, enlighten me.

wildhawker
07-27-2009, 1:18 AM
I think the Kimber I chose is reasonably priced, but does it's lower price compared to the $2800+ Wilson Combat also mean it has lower quality? Or does Wilson Combat and Les Baer simply mark up the price of their handguns because it has their logo on it? Please, enlighten me.

Yes, to some degree, but beauty and function are in the eyes and hands of the beholder. And yes, LB and Wilson do mark up their pricing reflective of the product, demand and their reputation, as does Kimber.

You may never desire for the function and details a LB, Wilson or full custom will give you; to those that do, the value of the higher-cost pieces make their price tag baerable.

The SoCal Gunner
07-27-2009, 1:36 AM
There is a big difference in build quality, parts, fit and finish between the guns Kimber builds and the guns WC or Les Baer builds.

erskatedoc
07-27-2009, 7:05 AM
I have three 1911's (Colt, S&W, Wilson) and the Wilson is hands down the best HG I have ever owned. Plus, they stand behind their products.

J-cat
07-27-2009, 7:59 AM
What is the difference between the two companies' 1911s? I've looked at the specifications, and I see some differences, but are the differences really worth the price? For example, the Kimber 1911 that caught my eye was the Custom Covert II (http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/covert/custom_covert_II/), and the Wilson Combat 1911 was the CQB (http://www.wilsoncombat.com/p_cqb.asp). Now, looking at the pricing, what makes the Wilson Combat 1911 so much better that it costs almost double, or more than double the Kimber 1911's price?

Cosmetics and reliability. WC cosmetics are much better and require alot more man hours to accomplish. Also, WC pistols are tested for reliability using fully loaded, and partially loaded magazines.

Kimber are production guns. If you compare checkering or beavertail grip safety fit, you'll see.

ETA: Wilson also uses higher quality small parts.

Sheepdog1968
07-27-2009, 8:07 AM
I've asked some friends about this. My understanding is that Wilson and Les Baer involve much move individual hand work than a Kimber. They are all fine guns. My guess is that you would be more than happy with any of them.

The one thing I should point out is that these higher end 1911s (I'm lumping all three together) are much more prone to jamming issues than the older more rattling 1911s. Tighter tollerances give better accuracy but are more easily jammed up.

APNF128
07-27-2009, 8:13 AM
Comparing Kimber from WC is like apple and oranges.Kimber is mostly production guns while Wilson is Custom crafted.The long hours of fitting polishing and finish is what makes a big in price difference. You also never loose much of what you payed for unlike in mass production pistol.

J-cat
07-27-2009, 8:16 AM
I've asked some friends about this. My understanding is that Wilson and Les Baer involve much move individual hand work than a Kimber. They are all fine guns. My guess is that you would be more than happy with any of them.

The one thing I should point out is that these higher end 1911s (I'm lumping all three together) are much more prone to jamming issues than the older more rattling 1911s. Tighter tollerances give better accuracy but are more easily jammed up.

They are not much more prone to jamming issues. I have two Springfield Armory Custom Shop Professionals (much tighter than a WC CQB) and they have not jammed once. I have shot factory and handloaded ammo, jacketer and lead, RN and SWC. Not one malfunction ever.

When you pay that kind of money, the machining, fit, and finish are usually perfect. The geometry between moving parts is IDEAL, not just within tolerance. The guns feed reliably and shoot accurately.

Juicymeat
07-27-2009, 8:20 AM
I've asked some friends about this. My understanding is that Wilson and Les Baer involve much move individual hand work than a Kimber. They are all fine guns. My guess is that you would be more than happy with any of them.

The one thing I should point out is that these higher end 1911s (I'm lumping all three together) are much more prone to jamming issues than the older more rattling 1911s. Tighter tollerances give better accuracy but are more easily jammed up.

That first part is pretty dead on...the second part not so much.

sholling
07-27-2009, 9:06 AM
Tight tolerances can make a pistol less reliable. In the case of the old rattle trap GI 1911s that difference had more to do with running dirty than anything else. They didn't feed hollow points reliably because they weren't intended to.

Modern 1911s are built much tighter. Partly because almost no one will buy a rattle trap, and partly because they want to be able to claim that they have match barrels and match accuracy. A Kimber with a "match barrel" will naturally have a tight "match" chamber. A match chamber is by it's nature finicky because it's tighter and if everything isn't perfect there can be feeding issues. That "match" barrel is part of a huge batch with mass production tolerances and one of every so many dozen or hundred are checked by quality control. Then those barrels go off to a mass production assembly area, get assembled, test fired, and shipped. The consequence is that a certain percentage of these mass produced "match grade" pistols won't feed.

That's a big difference between a Wilson (or any genuine custom shop pistol) and a Kimber. The whole process is more time consuming and far more attention is paid to detail. Wilsons are not mass produced and are not just slapped together. Tolerances can be tighter because everything is individually checked and hand fitted and stacked tolerances aren't allowed to cause issues.

My bottom line is that I don't want match anything on a self defense pistol. A failure at the range won't get you killed but a failure in a fight just might. What I want in a fight is dead reliable with decent accuracy. I really like Springfield Armory's "loaded" and S&W's SW1911 for a production line self defense 1911. On the other hand for a pure range toy "match" gewgaws have a place. But if I were competing then I'd rather the manufacturer put more time and money into function than fancy pimped out finishes.

I own one true factory custom - a S&W performance Center PC1911. The S&W equivalent to a Wilson or Baer. If I could afford it I'd buy an alloy framed Wilson Combat Compact CQB in a heartbeat as my primary self defense pistol. My life is worth it to me. Plus pistols at that level are a work of art.

m1match
07-27-2009, 9:38 AM
I've got a bunch of 1911s from full custom builds to stock Colts. My opinion is I will not own a current production Kimber. I've seen too many problems with reliability, durability, and problems with the Kimber series II firing pin safeties. The 1911 was designed to be built with a fair amount of skilled labor to fit parts. With a high end production gun from Wilson, Baer, Nighthawk, etc. you are paying for higher quality parts and the skilled labor to build them right.

Sheepdog1968s assertion that higher end guns will jam more is absolutely not true in my own experience. A 1911 that is built right will run well. Les Baer's are built tighter than Wilson's or any other 1911 that I've seen, but those who own them generally say they're very reliable. In my experience, my one Wilson CQB, Nighthawks, and my full custom builds are reliable enough to run in multiday classes shooting hundreds of rounds a day without any jams.

BlackDrop50
07-27-2009, 10:05 AM
Of course a Wilson Combat is going to be better. It's going to have all forged CNC parts and will probably be more hand fitted than a Kimber unless you get a higher end Kimber. Wilson also test fires and usually makes sure they are good before sending out.


That being said, people bad mouth Kimbers way too much. They have MIM parts and are really more of a production gun. They will still more accurate than most shooters.

4000 rounds and counting in my Kimber Raptor II. Still shoots a mag through a quarter within 15 yards(Best I can do). No failures of any kind since break in - first 400-600 rounds.


If you have money to spend and want the absolute best, I would recommend a Wilson over a Kimber, however, the Kimber will be just as good for most uses for much cheaper.


As with almost all companies, some guns will have problems. If you hang around on the 1911 forums you will see people with WC guns have problems as well.

B Strong
07-27-2009, 10:16 AM
What is the difference between the two companies' 1911s? I've looked at the specifications, and I see some differences, but are the differences really worth the price? For example, the Kimber 1911 that caught my eye was the Custom Covert II (http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/covert/custom_covert_II/), and the Wilson Combat 1911 was the CQB (http://www.wilsoncombat.com/p_cqb.asp). Now, looking at the pricing, what makes the Wilson Combat 1911 so much better that it costs almost double, or more than double the Kimber 1911's price?

If you need a 100% reliable 1911 type pistol for social purposes or competition, the Wilson is absolutely worth the increase in price over a Kimber.

I own an older (10+ yo) Wilson Combat Protector Pistol, and a Les Baer TRS.

I also own 3 Kimbers.

There is simply no comparison between say My Kimber TLE RLII and the Wilson or Baer, even though the TLE has been 100% reliable. The fit, finish and functionality of the Baer and Wilson are so far ahead of factory offerings that one range session will convince you.

There is a different question, and that is do you (or anyone) need the level of perfection of the custom house pistols? a tier 1 go-fast military unit operator or SWAT officer does, but do the rest of us? It's a question of priorities really.

You could purchase a Kimber, a case of ball ammo, and a training course at a reputable facility for the price of a new Wilson pistol. I would suggest that the Kimber + would be a better investment for most people than the Wilson.

Buddhabelly
07-27-2009, 10:22 AM
I think I should give a plug to my favorite high end 1911 maker - Nighthawk Custom.

Found an interesting article from an Arkansas newspaper about NHC.

http://nwanews.com/adg/Outdoors/233595/

B Strong
07-27-2009, 10:25 AM
I've asked some friends about this. My understanding is that Wilson and Les Baer involve much move individual hand work than a Kimber. They are all fine guns. My guess is that you would be more than happy with any of them.

The one thing I should point out is that these higher end 1911s (I'm lumping all three together) are much more prone to jamming issues than the older more rattling 1911s. Tighter tollerances give better accuracy but are more easily jammed up.

Say Again?

I've got everything from rattletrap original 1911's to high-end (Wilson, Baer, Chow, Swenson etc) 1911 types, and there is no truth to your statement.

If you want to concoct some fantasy scenario of what pistol would work better on Iwo Jima w/o lube, or some other such zero probability situation, have at it, but in the real world a properly maintained custom pistol will be 100% reliable in all weather, all climates.

PMMA92
07-27-2009, 11:27 AM
I dont own a kimber nor any high end 1911s. But I think if you own a kimber, held and test fired a WB,LB or the likes, you'll wish you afforded the difference in cost. You always get what you pay for. Here's a similar situation. I own a yukon. When I test-drove the escalade-another car of the same chassis and engine but built differently, I could only wish I have the extra money for the luxury of it. But hey, with proper maintenance, any car can drive anybody reliably from point A to point B. It's just that luxury comes with a price. IMHO.:)

Sam
07-27-2009, 12:30 PM
With Wilson, you get what uoupay for.

JMB1911
07-27-2009, 6:37 PM
Kimber versus Wilson? Take the Corvette. You see not much difference between a Base model and a ZR1, right? Start both up and drive them.

One Shot, One Dropped
07-27-2009, 9:08 PM
I just breezed through this thread, but I don't think anyone has mentioned that the Kimber Custom Covert II is not on the roster of handguns certified for sale in California. Unless you are in Law Enforcement, live in another state, find one for private sale or know of some other exemption, you can't just pick one up.

ocxpirate13
07-27-2009, 9:12 PM
I just breezed through this thread, but I don't think anyone has mentioned that the Kimber Custom Covert II is not on the roster of handguns certified for sale in California. Unless you are in Law Enforcement, live in another state, find one for private sale or know of some other exemption, you can't just pick one up.

Armed Forces are exempt as well right? I decided to save up for a Wilson or Les Baer.

oghl888
07-27-2009, 9:14 PM
It's like Astin Martin DB9s vs Corvette Z06.

ST5MF
07-27-2009, 9:51 PM
Handle and shoot them both. Then, buy a Baer ;)

Kimber- is for someone on a budget. They can be hit or miss.

Wilson is generally the best semi-custom 1911 available. The CQB is WC's best creation. Anything with a FULL LENGTH GUIDE ROD is "FLUFF."

Baer- is for the guy who still wares "Members Only" jackets, has hands like a baby's butt, and sports shiny leather slip on shoes... Baer has a niche with this market. If you look at a Baer catalogue you'll see 50 x 1911's that are identical but with different names(?) Never understood the Baer Mystique??? The guns aren't that nice and the slides and frames are probably made somewhere in Korea.

J-cat
07-27-2009, 9:58 PM
What makes you think that?

BigRich
07-27-2009, 10:08 PM
Oh, now it's on! The 1911 war has started.

sirgiles
07-27-2009, 10:11 PM
Kimber- is for someone on a budget. They can be hit or miss.

Wilson is generally the best semi-custom 1911 available. The CQB is WC's best creation. Anything with a FULL LENGTH GUIDE ROD is "FLUFF."

Baer- is for the guy who still wares "Members Only" jackets, has hands like a baby's butt, and sports shiny leather slip on shoes... Baer has a niche with this market. If you look at a Baer catalogue you'll see 50 x 1911's that are identical but with different names(?) Never understood the Baer Mystique??? The guns aren't that nice and the slides and frames are probably made somewhere in Korea.

your must be kidding, right?

wildhawker
07-27-2009, 10:22 PM
:troll: :rolleyes:

Kimber- is for someone on a budget. They can be hit or miss.

Wilson is generally the best semi-custom 1911 available. The CQB is WC's best creation. Anything with a FULL LENGTH GUIDE ROD is "FLUFF."

Baer- is for the guy who still wares "Members Only" jackets, has hands like a baby's butt, and sports shiny leather slip on shoes... Baer has a niche with this market. If you look at a Baer catalogue you'll see 50 x 1911's that are identical but with different names(?) Never understood the Baer Mystique??? The guns aren't that nice and the slides and frames are probably made somewhere in Korea.

Sam
07-27-2009, 10:34 PM
Korea? That's a good one.

Juicymeat
07-27-2009, 10:42 PM
Kimber- is for someone on a budget. They can be hit or miss.

Wilson is generally the best semi-custom 1911 available. The CQB is WC's best creation. Anything with a FULL LENGTH GUIDE ROD is "FLUFF."

Baer- is for the guy who still wares "Members Only" jackets, has hands like a baby's butt, and sports shiny leather slip on shoes... Baer has a niche with this market. If you look at a Baer catalogue you'll see 50 x 1911's that are identical but with different names(?) Never understood the Baer Mystique??? The guns aren't that nice and the slides and frames are probably made somewhere in Korea.

Would be a 10/10, but your lack of subtlety brings it to like 5/10

M47_Dragon
07-27-2009, 11:48 PM
You may never desire for the function and details a LB, Wilson or full custom will give you; to those that do, the value of the higher-cost pieces make their price tag baerable.


Just givin' props where props are due since nobody else mentioned it.:thumbsup:

wildhawker
07-28-2009, 12:32 AM
Just givin' props where props are due since nobody else mentioned it.:thumbsup:

I wondered how long it would be until someone caught that. ;)

hkdad
07-28-2009, 12:36 AM
my custom kimber match jams like a mofo! piece of crap!

hkdad
07-28-2009, 12:39 AM
It's like Astin Martin DB9s vs Corvette Z06.

what's wrong with a Z06? it's just a little bit faster than an aston...:confused::rolleyes:

m1match
07-28-2009, 5:00 AM
Kimber- is for someone on a budget. They can be hit or miss.

Wilson is generally the best semi-custom 1911 available. The CQB is WC's best creation. Anything with a FULL LENGTH GUIDE ROD is "FLUFF."

Baer- is for the guy who still wares "Members Only" jackets, has hands like a baby's butt, and sports shiny leather slip on shoes... Baer has a niche with this market. If you look at a Baer catalogue you'll see 50 x 1911's that are identical but with different names(?) Never understood the Baer Mystique??? The guns aren't that nice and the slides and frames are probably made somewhere in Korea.

I'll jump in here one more time. I'd agree with the 1st one. On the 2nd, I'd say they are among the best, but Wilson makes many models of 1911s and if you don't like the full length guide rod, they'll build it without one.

On Baer, I only own one but I have to say it's built very well. For me, Baer's are too tight as they come from the factory. But the quality was there- I've seen one belonging to a now retired SDPD SWAT officer that had probably over 30,000 rounds through it and it was worn and beat up, but ran like a top. As for the frames and slides, I'd have to disagree- I've seen CT Brian customs that are probably absolutely the nicest custom 1911s that I've ever handled, and he builds them on Baer frames if he can.

I also own one Nighthawk, and it's build quality is as good as Wilson or Baer.

JandJArmory
07-28-2009, 10:16 AM
Depends on the price your looking to pay. I have both and usally shoot my Nighthawk.

Buddhabelly
07-28-2009, 10:40 AM
Depends on the price your looking to pay. I have both and usally shoot my Nighthawk.

Nighthawk FTW.:D

tcb
07-29-2009, 12:17 AM
I own both a Kimber Pro carry HD and a Wilson CQB. They both shoot good and are very reliable. There is a huge difference to ME in the way the Wilson handles. The Kimber has not been shot since I have had the CQB. There is NOTHING wrong with it but when I take out a 1911 it's th CQB. The 1st time I handled mine the slide to frame fit felt like ice on ice. I really like the undercut triger guard (I wouldn't buy another 1911 without it) it really helps lock the grip into my hand. The folks there have been great with there service as well. They are way more $ than a Kimber but for a pistol that is built to last a lifetime it's not really a big deal to me.

Oh yea...My groups have gotten smaller and my times have gotten quicker shooting uspsa with the Wilson as well.

Semperpluris
07-29-2009, 1:22 AM
In my experience, my one Wilson CQB, Nighthawks, and my full custom builds are reliable enough to run in multiday classes shooting hundreds of rounds a day without any jams.

I can't wait for the day I can say that. My current favorite handgun that I own is a moderately custom Wilsonized Colt 70. I have a bad case of gun envy for your guns though. I can't wait to say, "What 1911 should I take to the range today- my CQB, T3 or LB Ultimate Tactical?" :)

SJgunguy24
07-29-2009, 2:32 AM
I love this debate. Get a kimber and send it to Novak.

BTW guess who makes all of Wilson Combat's frames?




Kimber

grim1U
07-29-2009, 8:47 AM
I've owned a WC CQB and it was a nice gun. I don't prefer WC anymore for the simple reason that they are to Propitier with their components, sights, beaver tail, etc. I sold it for this reason alone as I couldn't adjust a really good platform to MY exact liking. Also, when I bought mine back in the day it was a $1600.00, now the price seems too steep for a semi-custom IMHO

I've owned a few Kimbers in the past, now I don't own any. I guess I was lucky because all of mine worked perfect, never a problem (all internal extractors). They were up to par quality wise and without bench rest shooting, I was just as accurate as with the Kimber as I was with the WC. I got rid of them because they are a dime a dozen and usually come with too many features that I don't care for or need/want. I'm a plain jain kind a guy when it comes to 1911's.

My money now is on Springfield and just going full custom. You start with a quality base gun and build for what you need, no more, no less.

Sam
07-29-2009, 2:38 PM
Sjgunguy,
Why does it matter who makes Wilson frames?A company can make a great frame, but that has little to do with their ability to make a good final product.

Grim, what exactly can you not change to your liking on a Wilson?

sholling
07-29-2009, 2:51 PM
BTW guess who makes all of Wilson Combat's frames?

Why would this matter in the least. Do you think Baer or Nighthawk mix pixie dust in their metal formulations? No one that I know of has ever accused Kimber of making poorly forged frames. More often they accuse Kimber of poorly fitted components and sometimes poorly finished components. I think it's a safe assumption that the frames are sent unfinished to Wilson for final machining and hand fitting.

BTW I just ordered my second Kimber today so I'm not a hater just a realist.

grim1U
07-29-2009, 3:42 PM
Sjgunguy,
Why does it matter who makes Wilson frames?A company can make a great frame, but that has little to do with their ability to make a good final product.

Grim, what exactly can you not change to your liking on a Wilson?

I no longer have the Wilson, sold it. But, their slides sight cuts are propertier and I don't care for the WC sights (I can't pick them up fast for stress shooting, could just be me) and I don't like the WC beaver tale and that is also a propertier cut. And a few other things here and there.

It was a great product as far as form/function, but not exactly what "I" turned out to be looking for overall. You can hold a gun and admire it, but until you shoot a few 1000 rounds through it your really never 100% sure if it's exactly what you want.

I don't regret buying and selling it though, I learned everything I needed and what was just fluff "to me"

Sam
07-29-2009, 7:31 PM
Fair enough. Although I was told the sight cuts were Novak cuts as I asked about switching the rears to something more sterile.

Exiledviking
07-29-2009, 8:14 PM
BTW guess who makes all of Wilson Combat's frames? Kimber

I see your Kimber and I raise, S&W!

According to Wilson, S&W makes the forgings for frames and slides for Jerico/Kimber. Jerico is now part of Kimber. Kimber sells the frames and slides to Wilson according to Wilson's specs. The ones that Wilson get are all over-size for hand fittting and finishing.

sholling
07-29-2009, 8:23 PM
I no longer have the Wilson, sold it. But, their slides sight cuts are propertier and I don't care for the WC sights (I can't pick them up fast for stress shooting, could just be me) and I don't like the WC beaver tale and that is also a propertier cut. And a few other things here and there.I can respect your personal taste. I just want to add that it seems like pretty much everybody has their own sight cuts. S&W, Taurus, and Springfield if I remember correctly.

m1match
07-29-2009, 8:50 PM
grim1U- I think you mean Wilsons parts are proprietary- you mean they don't interchange with other makers parts right? The CQB uses Novak dovetail sights so those are not proprietary. Wilson cut beavertail grip safeties are also on Caspian frames and Springfield Armory 1911s. Sights and grip safeties are a matter of personal preferences, and I understand your not liking Wilson as much.

tankerman
07-29-2009, 9:18 PM
grim1U- I think you mean Wilsons parts are proprietary- you mean they don't interchange with other makers parts right? The CQB uses Novak dovetail sights so those are not proprietary. Wilson cut beavertail grip safeties are also on Caspian frames and Springfield Armory 1911s. Sights and grip safeties are a matter of personal preferences, and I understand your not liking Wilson as much.Thank you for clarify that, I was confused. Looked online for the definition of; Propitier all I got were french responses.

nooner
07-29-2009, 11:35 PM
Wow there are a lot of opinions in this thread. I'm perfectly happy with my Kimber, have had zero jams or issues of any kind and it has no trouble hitting what it is aimed at. If you have the money Wilson makes beautiful guns.

grim1U
07-30-2009, 2:20 PM
grim1U- I think you mean Wilsons parts are proprietary- you mean they don't interchange with other makers parts right? The CQB uses Novak dovetail sights so those are not proprietary. Wilson cut beavertail grip safeties are also on Caspian frames and Springfield Armory 1911s. Sights and grip safeties are a matter of personal preferences, and I understand your not liking Wilson as much.

The WC front sight is not a standard Novak cut, it's of WC size/dimension cut. The WC beavertail cut is not the same as many after market beaver tails, it's higher and requires more metal removed from the frame, so to put a "better to me" beavertail on, I would have to have the frame welded up to fill the gap. Etc, etc.

To answer your first question, Yes, that is what I meant;)

oghl888
07-30-2009, 10:29 PM
what's wrong with a Z06? it's just a little bit faster than an aston...:confused::rolleyes:


The DB9 is easier to live with every day, much more refined. Nothing wrong the the Z06, but it would be the Kimber in this comparison. It's quite a compliment to Kimber, too.

rtadlock
07-31-2009, 11:03 AM
I have a Wilson CQB and my girlfriend has a Kimber Goldmatch. Both are good guns and feel about the same to shoot but the Kimber seems to be a little more finicky about ammo. The Kimber does jam every once in a while but not very often. I have replaced the spring and tried different mags but it seems to be certain kinds of ammo it doesnt like.

I have at least twice as many round through my CQB and it has never jammed or had any malfunction of any kind. I have 9 guns and it is the one I would trust my life with the most.

If you want a good 1911 to go shoot at the range I would say save the money and get a Kimber. If you want a 1911 for when SHTF buy the Wilson. I have never heard any complaints about the functionality of a Wilson CQB, mainly just price.

SJgunguy24
07-31-2009, 11:14 AM
Why would this matter in the least. Do you think Baer or Nighthawk mix pixie dust in their metal formulations? No one that I know of has ever accused Kimber of making poorly forged frames. More often they accuse Kimber of poorly fitted components and sometimes poorly finished components. I think it's a safe assumption that the frames are sent unfinished to Wilson for final machining and hand fitting.

BTW I just ordered my second Kimber today so I'm not a hater just a realist.

I'm saying get a base model Kimber and have a true custom gun built. The componets are the same, as you said it's the hand fitting that makes the difference. My 1911 is a Colt and it's a P.O.S. I need to send it back to colt so they can get it running.

tom_92673
07-31-2009, 2:03 PM
I just got a Wilson Tactical Elite, and I've pretty much stopped shooting everything else. My Kimber is an ultra CDP, so not an apples to apples comparison as the Wilson is full size, but it's just so accurate. Everyone that's shot it can tell it's more accurate. My buddy who's SWAT armorer tuned in all their TRP's for them picked my Wilson up and shot tighter groups than he could acheive with his TRP on his first try with it. Wilson guarantees 1 inch accuracy on most models at 25 yards. Kimber wouldn't try that, and you are likely to pick up two Kimbers (a fine gun in my opinion) and have them feel very different from one another.

tazmanian devil dog
07-31-2009, 7:29 PM
Wilson and Ed Brown!!!!

m1match
07-31-2009, 8:03 PM
grim1U- I've only changed the rear on my CQB to a 10-8 so I learned something new- I didn't know the front wasn't Novak cut also. Personal choice is one of the great things about custom 1911s- you get what you want. Personally, my hand can't tell that much of a difference between Ed Brown beavertails and Wilsons. On my customs my all time favorite are the CMC Extreme grip safetys on an Ed Brown cut.

hawk1547
08-01-2009, 11:56 AM
I have a Wilson SDS and a Kimber Custom ll, and there is simply no comparison between Kimber and Wilson.The machining and the way all parts fit together...the overall build quality is just amazing,there are no plastic bits,no shortcuts or cost saving compromises in Bill Wilson 1911's.

aklon
08-01-2009, 6:13 PM
I have both a Kimber (Warrior II) and a Wilson (Professional). In my mind, the two guns aren't comparable. Both are fine examples of differing production philosophies and as such they stand on their own.

Kimber is a production gun. Parts for the gun are machined to very tight tolerances and then assembled. (And I have to say Kimber does this very well indeed.)

Wilson is a custom gun. Machining is (again) done to very tight tolerances, but critical parts are a tad oversized, then handfitted to each other.

Hold both guns and with the palm of your left hand, hold the slide forward of the trigger guard and rock gently back and forth. You'll find the Kimber has a little "give" to it; the Wilson doesn't. Rack the slide: the Kimber unlocks a lot easier than the Wilson.

What this translates to at the range is a slightly larger group from the Kimber than with the Wilson, but group size is not a concern as both pistols are quite accurate. More important, they are both extremely reliable (although you may have to have the Kimber's feed ramp polished).

Still, the best advice here is:

Handle and shoot them both. Then, buy a Baer ;)