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View Full Version : Intrafamilial transfer from out-of-state?


monkey
07-09-2005, 5:22 PM
This is a topic that has interested me, but I still don't know how, if at all, this works. Is there an exemption to the DROS for this sort of thing? Would love to hear from people who have done this, but done it legally.

P.S. If you went to your folks house and picked up the gun, drove it home to Cali, then submitted the transfer form to DOJ, then you DIDN'T do this legally. If it's legal at all in CA, then it has to involve a FFL to satisfy the federal part of it.

bwiese
07-18-2005, 11:24 AM
Someone here awhile back said he got DOJ permission to do this w/an "unsafe handgun" but I think he maybe misinterpreted their answer or just got info from a desk clerk at DOJ, which is NOT legal advice. As I recall, that incident didn't even involve an FFL, which makes it a Federal problem too!!

[I am assuming we are not dealing with C&R guns and/or you don't have a C&R FFL either as that can change things a bit...]

As I see it...<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI> ...both CA & Fed law require you've gotta go thru a CA FFL dealer.
<LI> ...gun(s) must not be considered assault weapons in CA.
<LI> ...handgun(s) must be on approved 'safe gun' list.
<LI> ...handgun recipient must have an HSC certificate.
<LI> ...hicap magazines are separate from gun and cannot be imported.
[/list]

DROS papers will have to be filed, you'll have to be 'eligible' (no felonies or other disabilities), etc. I am wondering about waiting period for handguns inherited from out of state from parent or grandparent - is there a 10 day wait for these? (They can be gifted in CA w/o waiting period as long as papers filed.)

And I see no exemption in the law for acquisition of 'unsafe handguns' across state lines whatsoever. The only way an unsafe handgun can legally enter the CA market right now is by someone moving into CA, becoming a resident, then executing private-party transfers (PPTs) w/other Californian(s). PPT paperwork requires both parties to be CA residents.

[Note: unsafe handguns do NOT include traditional single-action revolvers as long as min. 5 shots and 3+" barrel length. So those old collectible Rugers and Colt SAAs can be brought into CA and transferred to you.]

In a discussion w/Tim Riegert, asst Dir. of Cal DOJ/Firearms, at a recent Cal NRA Members Council dinner, the subject of 'unsafe handguns'was delved into substantially. His (informed) belief is that there was clear legislative intent in the recent safe gun laws to stop further 'unsafe' handguns from coming into CA, and that a court would agree with that interpretation.

So if some desk clerk/phone operator ("analyst"), or agent, or Field Representative (all terms for "I am not a lawyer and cannot give legal advice with any weight") from Cal DOJ Firearms says you can somehow transfer stuff across state lines (1) without an FFL or (2) that unsafe handguns can be transferred, he's full of it and has just 'made' new law.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

jester
07-27-2005, 11:43 AM
Bill, What about C&R long guns.Can a relative "gift" them to you form out of state? As long as you're not prohibited from possessing guns?

imported_EOD Guy
07-28-2005, 6:41 AM
Originally posted by jester:
Bill, What about C&R long guns.Can a relative "gift" them to you form out of state? As long as you're not prohibited from possessing guns?

They still have to go through a California dealer. The exception would be if you had a C&R FFL and the long guns were C&R and over 50 years old. They could be sent directly to a C&R FFL holder.

maxicon
07-28-2005, 2:03 PM
That's correct, and that's due to Federal law, not California law.

California allows you to transfer C&R long guns without an FFL (either standard 01 or C&R 03), but the Feds won't allow someone to sell a gun to a resident of another state without going through an FFL.

max

Flat Broke
04-25-2008, 7:30 AM
Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I figgure it's better to post on an existing topic than start another one for the sake of centralized information exchange for the next person searching for info.

I've been doing a lot of reading on this subject because my grandfather recently passed and left a couple riffles to myself, my brother, and my mother. The only catch is that he resided both in CA and TX. I need to check the guns, but I have a feeling at least two of them are over 50 years old.

I guess the first question would be, "what qualifies as a residence in CA?" He received mail at my mother's address in California and would spend months there at a time. He's burried in Inglewood, had a doctor here, etc. My mom had purchased his home in TX years ago and he also lived there for months at a time. I'm guessing it's important to determine whether or not he can be considered a CA resident from a Federal standpoint to determine if anything needs to go through an FFL; so I'm hoping someone can give me some input on that.

Am I correct to assume that if I can establish his CA residency, the riffles can just be transfered by submiting the PPT form and the $19 to the DOJ?

If I can't establish his residency in CA based upon the time he spent here; Can the rifles be hand delivered to an FFL, or would they need to be shipped from TX? For reference, we're not talking AWs or anything. There is a bolt action Springfield .22, a bolt action, Springfield .410, a 30.06 that I've never seen, but after hearing my mom describe it, could possibly be an M1, and a lever action Winchester 30-30. Would there be a 10 day wait on the guns if we have to DROS through an FFL?

Not to clutter this question, but I also had a related question with regard to the possible C&R status of the guns. The Winchester will be left as is, but my grandfather had HUGE hands and had made his own stocks for the Springfields. I was thinking it would be a cool testament to him and to the guns to make new stocks for them, espescially the .22 for my Mom. He was an avid woodworker and that's something he passed on to his grandsons. But I'm concerned about new furniture causing problems with the C&R status of the rifles and jeopardizing the legality of whichever transfer scenario we need to utilize.

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to make sure I got this info right, as my Mom and brother will be following whatever protocol I take with the rifles that are being passed to me.

Chris

mymonkeyman
04-25-2008, 9:48 AM
Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I figgure it's better to post on an existing topic than start another one for the sake of centralized information exchange for the next person searching for info.

I've been doing a lot of reading on this subject because my grandfather recently passed and left a couple riffles to myself, my brother, and my mother. The only catch is that he resided both in CA and TX. I need to check the guns, but I have a feeling at least two of them are over 50 years old.

I guess the first question would be, "what qualifies as a residence in CA?" He received mail at my mother's address in California and would spend months there at a time. He's burried in Inglewood, had a doctor here, etc. My mom had purchased his home in TX years ago and he also lived there for months at a time. I'm guessing it's important to determine whether or not he can be considered a CA resident from a Federal standpoint to determine if anything needs to go through an FFL; so I'm hoping someone can give me some input on that.

Am I correct to assume that if I can establish his CA residency, the riffles can just be transfered by submiting the PPT form and the $19 to the DOJ?

If I can't establish his residency in CA based upon the time he spent here; Can the rifles be hand delivered to an FFL, or would they need to be shipped from TX? For reference, we're not talking AWs or anything. There is a bolt action Springfield .22, a bolt action, Springfield .410, a 30.06 that I've never seen, but after hearing my mom describe it, could possibly be an M1, and a lever action Winchester 30-30. Would there be a 10 day wait on the guns if we have to DROS through an FFL?

Not to clutter this question, but I also had a related question with regard to the possible C&R status of the guns. The Winchester will be left as is, but my grandfather had HUGE hands and had made his own stocks for the Springfields. I was thinking it would be a cool testament to him and to the guns to make new stocks for them, espescially the .22 for my Mom. He was an avid woodworker and that's something he passed on to his grandsons. But I'm concerned about new furniture causing problems with the C&R status of the rifles and jeopardizing the legality of whichever transfer scenario we need to utilize.

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to make sure I got this info right, as my Mom and brother will be following whatever protocol I take with the rifles that are being passed to me.

Chris

An exception applies under Federal law which allows one to transfer/recieve firearms in interstate commerce without an FFL due to bequest (given them in a will) or intestate succession (person did not have a will and they were that heir's fair share of the deceased's estate). If the exception applies, the heir/devisee can just pick them up from where they are and take them home without worrying about the deceased's former state of residence, under Federal law.

The DOJ does not require long guns to be registered except voluntarily (and only requires transfers of the guns to go through an FFL when the transfer is in the state and not by operation of law). Handguns or large-capacity magazines would be different stories.

Mike's Custom
04-25-2008, 10:11 AM
Like mymonkeyman pointed out, and it is my understanding, that you can "inherit" a firearm from a relative that is not on the list. You can not "inherit" a assault weapon or HI-CAP magazines in CA. In the case of a bequest what Chris posted is correct about long guns. The real problem is, and Chris pointed this out also, is that you would have to go pick them up whether in state or out of state since they can only be shipped to a FFL and that will cause problems. Long guns don't need to be transfered with the Intra:Familial form. This provision was put in so that family heirlooms could stay in the family.

mymonkeyman
04-25-2008, 10:20 AM
shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State

It may also be lawful to have them properly sent via common courier, since the exception applies to both transferring or receiving into the devisee/heir's state of residence. I don't know if UPS or Fedex would actually accept a shipment of firearms from a non-FFL to a non-FFL.

Flat Broke
04-25-2008, 10:28 AM
Thanks for the replies.

So I satiate my federal transfer requirements because of the intestate succession exemption. And since long gun registration is voluntary in CA(I thought this only applied to guns older than 50yrs old); I wouldn't have to do anything with regards to the CA DOJ? I guess the only reason one would register them was for the off chance of recovery if they were stolen or lost right?

As for shipment, that's not a problem. My Uncle who was taking care of my Grandfather while in TX is comming out to visit and could bring them with him. So long as none of the rifles appear in the category I-III lists or fail the flowchart by features (which they don't), there isn't really any risk for issue with my Uncle driving them into the state is there?

Thanks again for the informative replies.

Chris

Hillbilly Rebel
04-25-2008, 2:55 PM
Unsafe handguns can be brought in to CA via interfamilial transfer through an FFL. PC 12132(b).

Mssr. Eleganté
04-25-2008, 9:23 PM
It may also be lawful to have them properly sent via common courier, since the exception applies to both transferring or receiving into the devisee/heir's state of residence. I don't know if UPS or Fedex would actually accept a shipment of firearms from a non-FFL to a non-FFL.

Yes, it is lawful to have inherited firearms shipped to you.

UPS will accept such shipments without an FFL being involved.

The USPS will also accept such shipments, but for long guns only.

FedEx requires an FFL to be involved.

Librarian
04-25-2008, 10:01 PM
Just one little point, since the rest of the issues are covered:Am I correct to assume that if I can establish his CA residency, the riffles can just be transfered by submiting the PPT form and the $19 to the DOJ?There is no "PPT form"; you were correctly thinking of the intrafamilial transfer form, but seem to have mis-typed. A PPT is a dealer transfer with DROS and background check and all that formality.

And, as already noted, neither the PPT nor an intrafamilial transfer is needed for the long guns in this case.

I hope you enjoy the new (to you) rifles!

Flat Broke
04-25-2008, 11:14 PM
Thank you for the clarification. I did indeed mis-type when I used the ppt terminology. I'm definitely looking forward to getting the guns into our possesion as the old bolt action .22 was the first firearm I ever shot.

Chris