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74elko
07-25-2009, 7:54 PM
I have a what if question. Let's say I were to sell to a rifle to a person on gunbroker. My ffl ships the gun to their ffl and during their 10 day wait they are denied or whatever the term is for not being able to take ownership of the weapon is. Who does that gun now belong to and as the seller would I be responsible for anything or would it be out of my hands and no longer my problem?

AT'sGCSRT8
07-25-2009, 9:07 PM
Do a search because I believe someone has asked this kind of question before. If I remember correctly you do not have to give the person their money back as it is their responsibility to make sure they can possess a firearm, but if you do decide to give them a refund, the gun will have to be DROSed back into your name. I hope I have that correct. Please correct me if I am wrong.

kbsgunsandstuff.com
07-25-2009, 10:01 PM
The Transfer Dealer will have a filled out 4473 form from the buyer that he can check out before the money is transfered and the Firearm is transfered. This should be included in the Transfer Dealer fees. You have less headaches and less shipping charges. KBS

kbsgunsandstuff.com
07-25-2009, 10:04 PM
I hope this has answered your question 74elko

KBS

kemasa
07-26-2009, 11:11 AM
Realistically, it is no longer your problem. The buyer should have assured that they could legally purchase a firearm. If you wanted to take it back, then you could, but you should be compensated for all the expenses. The "buyer" is free to have the FFL it was shipped to sell the firearm or the "buyer" can sell it to someone else and have the FFL ship it to them.

If it is a handgun, you may want to fill out the CA DOJ form:

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/BOF4546NLIP0209.pdf

especially if it was shipped out of state.

ke6guj
07-26-2009, 12:50 PM
The Transfer Dealer will have a filled out 4473 form from the buyer that he can check out before the money is transfered and the Firearm is transfered. This should be included in the Transfer Dealer fees. You have less headaches and less shipping charges. KBSI've never heard of a dealer normally offering escrow services as part of the transfer fee. If I were selling a firearm on gunbroker, once I get payment, I would send the firearm to the transfer dealer. I would not send the firearm and then get money from the transfer dealer, if that is what you are saying.

How/why would a 4473 be filled out before the firearm arrived at the transfer dealer? Are you saying that the transfer dealer would submit a NICS/background check before the buyer sends the money to the seller? Shouldn't the buyer have thought about that BEFORE he bid?

yzernie
07-26-2009, 1:25 PM
The Transfer Dealer will have a filled out 4473 form from the buyer that he can check out before the money is transfered and the Firearm is transfered. This should be included in the Transfer Dealer fees. You have less headaches and less shipping charges. KBS
I think you may be confusing the Arizona rules and Cali rules. In Az you fill out the 4473 and the dealer makes a call, gets an instant approval or denial, if approved he obtains the transaction number and the buyer walks out with their gun. Cali is very different, the buyer fills out the 4473, the FFL then does the Cali DROS and the FFL holds onto the gun for 10 days while a background is completed.

If it is a PPT the buyer pays for the gun at the time of the transaction and if he fails the background the seller has his money. It would be up to the seller and buyer to decide how they want to do it from there.

tenpercentfirearms
07-28-2009, 10:08 PM
If you send the firearm straight to an FFL, why can't the FFL send it back to you? You can send firearms out for gunsmithing and get them back. You can go in to do a PPT and they can return them back to you without a background check. What do you guys think?

halifax
07-29-2009, 4:54 AM
If you send the firearm straight to an FFL, why can't the FFL send it back to you? You can send firearms out for gunsmithing and get them back. You can go in to do a PPT and they can return them back to you without a background check. What do you guys think?

Probably OK if it doesn't violate the other state's laws. Can CA dealers use NICS in cases like this?

kemasa
07-29-2009, 11:50 AM
In the case of a PPT, the seller is checked, perhaps only if the seller is denied,but they might also check to see if a prohibited person is selling a firearm. So this is not the same.

One issue with returning it is that the firearm was not sent in for service or repair:

12073 (b)(9) The return of an unloaded firearm to the owner of that firearm
by a dealer, if the owner initially delivered the firearm to the
dealer for service or repair.


12082 might allow for it, but one issue is in knowing that the seller is allowed to receive the firearm.

In CA, you need to do the DROS, so I doubt that the NICS would be allowed.