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View Full Version : Back from training on emergency leave, need legal help.


edward
07-24-2009, 1:05 PM
*New update* Post 58
*Updated information in Post #40*

Well, I have no idea where to begin, so I'm just going to try and make this as coherent as possible.

On Wednesday morning I was told by my senior drill instructor that my mom had passed away and I was being sent home on emergency leave.
I got here Wednesday night and found out from my sisters the extent of what happened. I don't really feel comfortable going into details or even if I should, but I will say that a firearm she owned was involved.
When the police got to the house no members of our family were present and the safe was open - no, nothing was missing from the safe - they proceeded to take inventory of everything in the safe and took the guns to run the serial numbers and check registrations etc. etc. They didn't give a receipt of what they took and were done by the time my sister got here. She talked to the detective and was told she would get something in the mail regarding the weapons.

Now, 90% of what they took is mine, the handguns were my moms, and one of those was the gun used.
What I'm looking for is information on how this is going to pan out. All of the guns were completely legal, I'm not worried about that - the detective even told my sister that if anything wasn't right they would have called by now. What I want to know is, how screwed up is the process I'm going to have to use to get my firearms back? How much money am I going to have to borrow to get the right attorney to help me mull through the paperwork on my next 10 days of leave at the end of August?

I realize I'm being kind of light on the details, but I don't want to say much more than what I just said given the circumstances. Any information appreciated. Thanks all.

Whiskey_Sauer
07-24-2009, 1:09 PM
Edward, please send me a pm. I'm in your area, and everything we discuss will be subject to attorney-client privilege. I've also gotten firearms and other property back from the Sonoma County Sheriff's Dept. for clients before.

aplinker
07-24-2009, 1:10 PM
I have no information to give, but it's clear this is a tragic loss. I'm very sorry for it and my thoughts & prayers are with you.

technique
07-24-2009, 1:13 PM
Sorry for your loss.

Alaric
07-24-2009, 1:18 PM
Condolences to you and your family for your loss. Good luck to you in getting your property back as well.

bwiese
07-24-2009, 1:18 PM
I am sorry to hear this.

I understand what you're going thru a bit, I lost a very good friend last year.

Whiskey_Sauer looks like he's in touch with you and is a lawyer; if there are firearm technical-legal issues we can help him can reach out to gun lawyers - unsure if this raises to a CGF matter or not.

glbtrottr
07-24-2009, 1:21 PM
I cannot even imagine the unbelievable amount of stuff you're going through, let alone the police being involved in the manner in which they are.

Hopefully you can outsource this inconvenience and worry to Mr. Whiskey Sauer or anyone willing to help - sorry for your loss.

My mom also passed away while I was in the Marine Corps...soon you'll get a chance to get your head straight...good luck to you.

Maestro Pistolero
07-24-2009, 1:26 PM
no, nothing was missing from the safe - they proceeded to take inventory of everything in the safe and took the guns to run the serial numbers and check registrations etc. etc. They didn't give a receipt of what they took and were done by the time my sister got here. She talked to the detective and was told she would get something in the mail regarding the weapons.
Confused, You first said nothing was missing from the safe. Then you said they took the guns. How do you know whether anything was missing if they took the guns without a receipt. Were you there for the inventory?

I'm very sorry for your loss.

edward
07-24-2009, 1:37 PM
Confused, You first said nothing was missing from the safe. Then you said they took the guns. How do you know whether anything was missing if they took the guns without a receipt. Were you there for the inventory?

I'm very sorry for your loss.

I'll clear that up, aside from the guns there was a metric ton of ammo, mags, accessories and some valuables in the safe. All that was there when I arrived and I have since inventoried it.
What was missing when I got here were the guns, which the detective told my sister they took. Did they get them all? I'm not sure. They're all definitely gone, and I'm working from the assumption the police do have them all, because they said they had taken all the firearms that were in the safe. It might help if I said that there really is no consideration of any other people being involved in this besides my mom.

1BigPea
07-24-2009, 1:42 PM
Sorry to hear about your loss...hang in there.

bwiese
07-24-2009, 1:44 PM
The lawyer should immediately ask for inventory of all items removed.

I'm assuming Whiskey can help.

Was the safe forced/broken open? (Don't answer.) The clarity of the unfortunate situation, if the safe were closed/locked, should not have required violating rights of others.

Dirtbiker
07-24-2009, 1:52 PM
I can't even imagine what you are going through. Looks like you have someone to help but you have bigger worries right now than just getting the guns back.

Best wishes and my sympathies to you.

Desert_Rat
07-24-2009, 3:23 PM
I'm Sorry for your loss young Man. I hope all goes well from this point forward for you
Semper Fi

bodger
07-24-2009, 3:49 PM
Sorry for your loss. And thank you for your service.
God's speed in carrying on Marine.

Maestro Pistolero
07-24-2009, 4:06 PM
Sorry for your loss. And thank you for your service.
God's speed in carrying on Marine.

How could you tell he was a Marine?

RandyD
07-24-2009, 4:13 PM
How could you tell he was a Marine?

He said he had a Senior Drill Instructor, and Marines know what that means.

RandyD
07-24-2009, 4:17 PM
Edward,

Sorry to hear about the loss of your mother and please accept my condolences. I am a former Marine and a former Drill Instructor and also an attorney, and my advice is to contact the local attorney who offered to assist you, Whiskey Sauer, and let him get your firearms back. Best wishes on finishing Boot Camp, keep us posted.

Semper Fi
Randy Dierlam

TurboS600
07-24-2009, 4:35 PM
Sorry for the loss, Devil Dog (or soon to be anyways). My brother went through this last September with his 16 y/o son. I empathize with your situation, but like I have told him numerous times I can't even imagine what that kind of pain feels like. However, you have other more pressing issues to deal with than the guns right now. They won't destroy them before you finish boot camp, you can deal with that later. Just try to get your head wrapped around this as best you can and get back into your platoon. So sorry to hear about your situation. I wish you and your sisters the best.

bodger
07-24-2009, 4:42 PM
He said he had a Senior Drill Instructor, and Marines know what that means.

Indeed they do.

Sobriquet
07-24-2009, 4:45 PM
Hang in there, Edward. I'm very sorry for your loss.

anthonyca
07-24-2009, 4:45 PM
The lawyer should immediately ask for inventory of all items removed.

I'm assuming Whiskey can help.

Was the safe forced/broken open? (Don't answer.) The clarity of the unfortunate situation, if the safe were closed/locked, should not have required violating rights of others.

I am wondering who owned the safe, how they got it open and why they took ALL the guns.

Bad situations are used to throw out the Constitution all the time. I am not saying that is what happened here as I know nothing about this situation.

To the OP. You are one tough man to be dealing with this and bootcamp at the same time.

jazman
07-24-2009, 5:04 PM
I have no answers, but my thoughts are with you and your family in this tough time.

cortayack
07-24-2009, 5:09 PM
Sorry to hear the bad news.....I hope everything works out for you.....

mstlaurent
07-24-2009, 8:10 PM
I'm very sorry about your loss. I was in training in the Navy when my father died, and it makes things really tough. Just remember that as much as your DIs and instructors seem like hard asses, they are people too. If you need to talk to someone, talk to them, they'll be there for you.

And I have to say, it's amazing what a difference 20 years makes. My father committed suicide with a handgun in 1988, and when they cleared the scene all they took was gun he used. They didn't ask about other guns, or search the house, or bust open any safes, or any of that. When the investigation was over (about a week), they returned the gun. The investigating detective actually drove back to my parent's house and handed over the gun and offered his sincere condolences. No paperwork, no questions, no lawyers, nothing to make a bad situation worse. I guess that's not their policy anymore.

KylaGWolf
07-24-2009, 8:13 PM
Edward my condolences to you and your family.

chefdude
07-24-2009, 9:56 PM
sorry for you loss....

WokMaster1
07-24-2009, 10:15 PM
Sorry for your loss.

retired
07-24-2009, 11:20 PM
I am deeply sorry for your loss. If you need to speak with someone, please do; don't keep your sorrow bottled up inside you.

As you have read, everyone here has you in their thoughts. Take care.

Jarhead4
07-24-2009, 11:27 PM
Iím very sorry for your loss. When you get back to your unit see the Chaplin ASAP.

TKM
07-24-2009, 11:52 PM
I'm deeply sorry for your troubles.

I hope your friends and family will carry you through these hard times.

As others have said, your leadership team will be able to help you during these stressful and difficult times. Although you are having a deeply personal crisis, the corps has experience with such situations. The Big Green Machine really does care about you.

Your cadre have family as well. Don't be afraid to seek whatever help is available. Take care.

Lateralus
07-25-2009, 12:21 AM
My prayers go out to you and your family. Keep us updated on how the quest for your property unfolds.

edward
07-25-2009, 10:47 AM
Thanks everybody for the kind words and support. Never thought I would have to deal with anything like this but I'm staying focused on one task at a time.

I think I'll be able to get this taken care of with Whiskey, so that has alleviated alot of the worry. Can't imagine what I would do without my Calguns. :)

scrat
07-25-2009, 11:07 AM
Sorry for your loss

Godspeed

Ron-Solo
07-25-2009, 5:26 PM
Sorry for your loss

esskay
07-25-2009, 10:03 PM
Sincere condolences and thanks for your service...

thatrogue
07-26-2009, 3:16 AM
Sorry for your loss, and thank you for your service. Godspeed...

MAC USMC
07-26-2009, 10:29 AM
It may seem like there are more questions than answers right now, but it will work out. Keep your faith and may God bless you and your family members.

Stormfeather
07-26-2009, 1:28 PM
My thoughts are with you in this time of sorrow. I hope your mother found the peace she needed to find. Carry on Marine, theres plenty of us here if you ever need to talk.

B Strong
07-26-2009, 4:01 PM
Prayers outbound. I'm sorry for your loss, and thank you for your service.

edward
08-29-2009, 7:48 PM
* UPDATE *

Hey everybody,
Graduated yesterday and I'm back home. Sadly, the situation with my firearms hasn't improved. The Santa Rosa PD sent my sister the standard PC 12021.3 Firearms release notice telling her to go to the DOJ website and fill out the LEGR form for the guns to reclaim. That is pretty straitghtforward, but here is what I noticed.

On the second page of the letter from the SRPD, it lists the weapons slated for release, and only 11 out of 15 are on the list. The 4 that are missing from the list are, you guessed it... my evil black rifles; an AR, an AK, a Saiga 12, and a PTR 91.
Now, all of them were mag locked, I made sure of it. And no one from the police department ever told anyone in my family anything about them being illegal. Nobody has got a phone call or a notice of any sort, they are just conspicuously absent from the release list.
I can't call the SRPD until Monday and I didn't plan on it anyway without hooking up with Whiskey to have some counsel first, but I would like to hear what calguns has to say and maybe some theories on where this is going to go.

Thanks again for the kind words too everybody, they are greatly appreciated.

hoffmang
08-29-2009, 8:42 PM
Please contact me directly by email: hoffmang@hoffmang.com . We'll get CGF counsel to look into the situation.

-Gene

Blackhawk556
08-29-2009, 9:11 PM
Please contact me directly by email: hoffmang@hoffmang.com . We'll get CGF counsel to look into the situation.

-Gene

Tell them Gene is on the way they'll return your EBRs with a quickness :cool:


man i can't believe they went after your black ones

wash
08-30-2009, 6:46 AM
Hearing this makes me angry.

I wish there was a way to sue for damages in a case like this because you have already suffered enough.

Is there any hope that we can force the PD's to stop stealing our property?

edward
08-30-2009, 11:59 AM
Please contact me directly by email: hoffmang@hoffmang.com . We'll get CGF counsel to look into the situation.

-Gene

Email sent. Many thanks Gene.

Curtis
08-31-2009, 12:17 AM
Edward

The best option is legal council. This is what I would do if I was in your situation (without legal council):

File the LEGR form with the DOJ. Provide a copy of the police report and request the fees to be waived because you are a victim. I would call them before sending in the paper work and "ask for help" even if you know what to do. Then call them shortly after the paper work is sent to verify they have everything they need. Then ask about expediting the process due to..... I used an upcoming shoot as an excuse. I'm sure your military obligations would work much better. I received the LEGR letter exactly 14 days after sending it when I was told the wait was 3 months.

This will help you get most of your guns back as soon as possible. But I would be working like crazy to get the black rifles released. If they release them during the wait period the LEGR letter will work because it doesn't specifically list handguns.

I would call everyone possible about the situation. I found the detective on my case was my biggest supporter, but also the least knowledgeable about what the paper work. The property clerk was the absolute WORST!!!!!

I would expect a letter stating you need to recover you guns within 45 days or they will be destroyed. This is absolute BS. Call them on it. If they play dumb or say anything other than they won't destroy your guns, call the CADOJ. They hate when the PD's do this and will write as well as call up the PD to set them straight.

I'm sure this is a mute point now the Gene and he team are on your case.

I'm so sorry for your family's loss. Good luck to you! Thank you for your service.

B Strong
08-31-2009, 3:25 AM
I hope this all works out, and with the help of the CGF it should, but this isn't the first time I've heard of EBR's not making it onto a property list.

CavTrooper
08-31-2009, 6:52 PM
Please keep us posted on the outcome!

hoffmang
08-31-2009, 7:38 PM
CGF is on the case.

-Gene

bwiese
08-31-2009, 7:41 PM
We have another someone similar one (family member passed away, other family member opens the safes for cop) coming onto the burner shortly.

rulas41
08-31-2009, 7:48 PM
CGF is on the case.

-Gene

hurray now i need to donate to cgf

SAN compnerd
08-31-2009, 8:15 PM
My family and I offer our heart felt sympathies. I can relate to some degree as I was stationed in Germany when my Grandmother passed away and I returned home on emergency leave. It was a whirlwind trip and my head was still spinning when I returned to my duty station and I did not have the complications you currently have. Best of luck to you.

jdberger
08-31-2009, 8:17 PM
I'm sure this is a mute point now the Gene and he team are on your case.



MOOT point.

You'd use "mute point" in mime court.

http://www.tundracomics.com/AdvHTML_Upload/Mime_06.jpg

anthonyca
08-31-2009, 8:30 PM
CGF is on the case.

-Gene

Thank you.

anthonyca
08-31-2009, 8:31 PM
We have another someone similar one (family member passed away, other family member opens the safes for cop) coming onto the burner shortly.

Good work. I wonder how common these are but we just don't hear about them.

Peter W Bush
08-31-2009, 8:33 PM
good luck to you

bden
08-31-2009, 9:01 PM
CGF is on the case.

-Gene

It's awesome you guys help out in times like this. As soon as finances allow you can expect a donation.

Best wishes to the OP.

CaliforniaCarry
09-01-2009, 11:14 AM
CGF is on the case.

-Gene

Those words make me smile every time, without exception. :D

edward
11-05-2009, 3:26 PM
Time for an update. Don't worry, good news this time. :D

So I got an email earlier today from Whiskey containing a letter from the SRPD.
After recieving a packet of infomation regarding the CA penal code and CA compliance parts that Don Kilmer hooked us up with (Thank you Don and Gene), the PD mulled it over for a few days before sending a new letter with All of the guns listed on it. No sweet apology or anything like that, just a "We have come to the conclusion these are legal". :cool:

Its not all over yet, since I still have to go through the LEGR process, but getting this set straight has me feeling pretty good.

Anyway, thanks calgunners for the support. On a side note; who here is stationed at 29 Palms? :43:

anthonyca
11-05-2009, 3:33 PM
Thanks for the update. Thank you CGF and the lawyers involved. Good job on the OP for not giving up and being strong in all you went through and still are going through.

1BigPea
11-05-2009, 3:39 PM
Time for an update. Don't worry, good news this time. :D

So I got an email earlier today from Whiskey containing a letter from the SRPD.
After recieving a packet of infomation regarding the CA penal code and CA compliance parts that Don Kilmer hooked us up with (Thank you Don and Gene), the PD mulled it over for a few days before sending a new letter with All of the guns listed on it. No sweet apology or anything like that, just a "We have come to the conclusion these are legal". :cool:

Its not all over yet, since I still have to go through the LEGR process, but getting this set straight has me feeling pretty good.

Anyway, thanks calgunners for the support. On a side note; who here is stationed at 29 Palms? :43:

Nice!

Trying to mess with your EBR's. That's just not right. :chris:

bwiese
11-05-2009, 3:41 PM
Good news all around (except for loss of family member).

The similar case I referred to above in SoCal resolved itself a day or two later with family getting guns back and without further legal entanglement.

jazman
11-05-2009, 4:19 PM
In the immortal words of George Peppard: "I love it when a plan comes together!":D

esskay
11-05-2009, 4:57 PM
We have another someone similar one (family member passed away, other family member opens the safes for cop) coming onto the burner shortly.

I presume that in a situation like this, family members are not obligated to open a closed & locked safe for anyone, right?

To Edward, glad to hear and best wishes again to you.

Purple K
11-05-2009, 5:02 PM
Calguns IS making a difference. :patriot:

edward
11-05-2009, 5:07 PM
In the immortal words of George Peppard: "I love it when a plan comes together!":D

That was my exact thought upon reading Whiskey's email and the attached letter from the SRPD. :D

bigmike82
11-05-2009, 5:09 PM
Glad you got your babies back. :)

My uncle was stationed at 29 stumps a few years back. I hope you enjoy desert wildlife. ;)

Quser.619
11-05-2009, 5:21 PM
Congrats on getting the guns back & am so sorry about your loss!

rkt88edmo
11-05-2009, 5:23 PM
Now, if this just played out without Edward's extra effort, does that mean SRPD just confiscates property w/o a receipt and never tells you about it unless you call them on it? lame-o

xxdabroxx
11-05-2009, 5:40 PM
Hope they are all in good condition, sorry about your loss.

a1c
11-05-2009, 5:58 PM
So sad to hear... Hang in there.

oldrifle
11-05-2009, 6:27 PM
Sorry for your loss... that's pretty rough.