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sixniner
07-24-2009, 9:09 AM
Howdy fellow Calgunners

Please excuse my ignorance and feel free to school me on this subject. Here is the situation, if I travel to another "free" state, is it possible for me to purchase hand gun, bring back to the Left Coast and register with the DOJ?

TIA

liketoshoot
07-24-2009, 9:12 AM
In a way, yes, if it is on our "list" you can buy it but would have to have it shipped to your local FFL in CA. to complete the deal, if it is C&R and you hold a 03 ffl you can cash and carry.
I think I got this right but I'm sure you will hear more from others with more knowledge then me.

Greg-Dawg
07-24-2009, 9:23 AM
Most require you to be a resident of that state to purchase. Find out where you're visiting.

VegasND
07-24-2009, 9:28 AM
I do this from time to time. I carry a business card from a dealer here who wil accept it. The seller calls and is sent a copy of the receiver's FFL. You pay for the gun and shipping. When it arrives you go in, do the government paperwork and pay the dealer for their trouble (and any government theft of your $$$ because you bought a gun). It's really not difficult, but be sure to ask the dealer on your end what it's going to cost--sometimes the expense is a deal-breaker.

Sheepdog1968
07-24-2009, 9:35 AM
In a way, yes, if it is on our "list" you can buy it but would have to have it shipped to your local FFL in CA. to complete the deal, if it is C&R and you hold a 03 ffl you can cash and carry.
I think I got this right but I'm sure you will hear more from others with more knowledge then me.

I've found the same info re new guns. I don't know about C&R. I spoke to Cabella's recently as there was something I wanted that was on the CA list but not in CA from the local dealers. Cabella's told me that I can buy it from them but need to then have it shipped directly to a local FFL gun dealer to get it DROS'd. Local dealers charge somewhere between $50 and $100 (they need to make a living too) plus DROS fees.

Also, there was some law passed not that long ago that required out of state dealers to have to register w CA to do this. I don't know the details behind this and others can probably help you. For Cabela's it didn't sound like it was going to be a problem.

VegasND
07-24-2009, 9:41 AM
...Local dealers charge somewhere between $50 and $100 (they need to make a living too) plus DROS fees...
It always surprises me what you have to put up with in CA. Here, the average dealer charges $25 to accept and do the transfer. There's one in Pahrump that only charges $15. Henderson Defense will do up to 3 guns for $25.00. Cost in Arizona is the same as in Nevada.

While in CA last year, a Turner's employee told me they'd charge me $100 'FFL fee' to ship a gun out of state if I bought one. Needless to say, I didn't buy anything.

rod
07-24-2009, 10:18 AM
It always surprises me what you have to put up with in CA. Here, the average dealer charges $25 to accept and do the transfer. There's one in Pahrump that only charges $15. Henderson Defense will do up to 3 guns for $25.00. Cost in Arizona is the same as in Nevada.

While in CA last year, a Turner's employee told me they'd charge me $100 'FFL fee' to ship a gun out of state if I bought one. Needless to say, I didn't buy anything.

Virginia is like that too. My local gun store charges $20 for out of state transfers and another two dollars (if they remember) for the background check. That's it. No DROS fees or registration fees. I haven't had to buy anything outside the state though. If I want something in particular (new gun), they'll order it if they don't have it in stock already. They can usually get a gun in stock faster than I can have someone ship one from out of state. Used guns from out of state, you'll have to pay the $22. They miss out on some nickel and dime fees I guess, but they more than make up for it by repeat customers coming back for good deals from good people. Now you got me thinking about how great this store is, I think I'm going to go buy a gun after work today.

rod
07-24-2009, 10:29 AM
Federal law states that you must be a legal resident of the state where you purchase the firearm. That said when you go to a gun store in any state you have to produce driver licence for that state to prove residence.

I have people in Arizona that have bought guns for me that are not on the California safe gun list and I just keep it in their name as I can't transfer to my name in California.

This is unusual, but I am very close with the people I know in Arizona and they trust me. Short of a scenario like this it will be difficult for you to buy in another state and transfer here if you can't prove residency in that state!:29:

Would you happen to know which law that is? All those lowers I bought from DDs Ranch might be illegal:eek: and Gunbroker is nothing but a trap! Y'all don't have to worry since those on GB won't ship to CA anyway.:)

I'm being a smart alek. Seriously though, what law are you thinking of? You also might want to re word your post concerning people buying guns for you out of state that are illegal in CA.

hawk1
07-24-2009, 10:32 AM
I do this from time to time. I carry a business card from a dealer here who will accept it. The seller calls and is sent a copy of the receiver's FFL. You pay for the gun and shipping. When it arrives you go in, do the government paperwork and pay the dealer for their trouble (and any government theft of your $$$ because you bought a gun). It's really not difficult, but be sure to ask the dealer on your end what it's going to cost--sometimes the expense is a deal-breaker.

For the win!

You do not have to be a resident of the state to buy in that state. It must shipped to your California FFl to transfer into your name. It must be on the roster if a handgun or be exempt.

sixniner
07-24-2009, 10:34 AM
Thank all for responding.
I guess buying anything not on the roster is next to impossible!

hawk1
07-24-2009, 10:35 AM
Federal law states that you must be a legal resident of the state where you purchase the firearm. That said when you go to a gun store in any state you have to produce driver licence for that state to prove residence.

I have people in Arizona that have bought guns for me that are not on the California safe gun list and I just keep it in their name as I can't transfer to my name in California.

This is unusual, but I am very close with the people I know in Arizona and they trust me. Short of a scenario like this it will be difficult for you to buy in another state and transfer here if you can't prove residency in that state!:29:

So what you have just admitted to is a felony. On a public forum as well.
You need to re-think your firearms purchases and stay on the legal side of the law.

Ron-Solo
07-24-2009, 10:56 AM
I have people in Arizona that have bought guns for me that are not on the California safe gun list and I just keep it in their name as I can't transfer to my name in California.

This is unusual, but I am very close with the people I know in Arizona and they trust me. Short of a scenario like this it will be difficult for you to buy in another state and transfer here if you can't prove residency in that state!:29:

What you are describing is referred to as a "Straw Purchase" and is a violation of Federal law and can also cost the FFL their license if they are aware that the purchaser is not going to be the real owner. When you fill out the fed forms, you are signing under penalty of perjury that you are the actual purchaser.

Be careful what you post in public forums. They are not annonymous and can be traced. Hitting the delete or edit button doesn't make things go away, it just sends them to a parallel universe that can be reached by those who know computers.

Aloha!

Big Jake
07-24-2009, 11:01 AM
Not at all! It is illegal for someone to do a "Straw Purchase" This is when someone who is not a prohibited person buys a gun under the pretext of keeping it for themselves but turns around and gives/sells it to someone who is a prohibited person!

I am not a prohibited person so there is nothing wrong with this. It would be no different if you had a relative in Nevada who buys you a gun there and gives it to you for a Christmas present here in California.

As long as you are not a prohibited person then it is perfectly legal!

I know this for a fact because the person that I know in Arizona happens to be an attorney. He checked into this and it is totally legal!

Aldemar
07-24-2009, 11:17 AM
I have people in Arizona that have bought guns for me that are not on the California safe gun list and I just keep it in their name as I can't transfer to my name in California.

This is unusual, but I am very close with the people I know in Arizona and they trust me. Short of a scenario like this it will be difficult for you to buy in another state and transfer here if you can't prove residency in that state!:29:

This is the definition a of "Straw Purchase". I wouldn't put any of my friends in a situation like this. You never know what may happen.


AL

rod
07-24-2009, 11:21 AM
Not at all! It is illegal for someone to do a "Straw Purchase" This is when someone who is not a prohibited person buys a gun under the pretext of keeping it for themselves but turns around and gives/sells it to someone who is a prohibited person in your scenario, you're a prohibited person!

I am not a prohibited person so there is nothing wrong with this. It would be no different if you had a relative in Nevada who buys you a gun there and gives it to you for a Christmas present here in California.Intrafamil-something or other transfers are limited to immediate family members such as parent to child...not friend to friend

As long as you are not a prohibited person then it is perfectly legal!

I know this for a fact because the person that I know in Arizona happens to be an attorney. I hope he's good and can practice in CA. You might need him to defend you.He checked into this and it is totally legal!well, I guess that makes it all right then.

I recommend you read the law a little more carefully. There's a list of guns that you are prohibited from buying from a dealer in CA. If you have someone buy you one of those guns in AZ, knowing that you are the real owner, then that is considered a straw purchase. There are legal ways to get those guns in CA without having someone in AZ buy those guns for you. Check out this thread...http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=453444

Big Jake
07-24-2009, 11:51 AM
I will have my friend look into this more carefully and if he agrees that the scenario which you present is, in fact, a straw purchase then I we will not do it anymore.

I will call him this weekend and post what he finds out at a later time. Thank you for the info.

hawk1
07-24-2009, 12:06 PM
Jake read up on the Gun Control Act of 1968

This is just a start to show you have incriminated your friends in a felony as well...It's more than just a "straw" issue.

http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/gca.htm

922. Unlawful acts

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting

Librarian
07-24-2009, 1:48 PM
See the Wiki http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transferring_firearms_Interstate

As one poster has noted, the requirement is the sale must go through an FFL in the state of residence of the buyer. So, arranging to buy a gun by shipping it to a CA FFL is entirely within the law.

In the case of handguns, such guns must be on the Roster, or the CA FFL may not deliver the handgun (unless you are exempt from the Roster, generally LEO).

But an unlicensed person may NOT take possession of a firearm acquired out of state and bring it back to CA himself. (C&R is a license.) And FFLs and private sellers are prohibited from selling directly to persons who do not live in the same state as the seller.

MiguelS
07-24-2009, 8:55 PM
hmmmmm....

Federal law states that you must be a legal resident of the state where you purchase the firearm. That said when you go to a gun store in any state you have to produce driver licence for that state to prove residence.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

This is unusual, but I am very close with the people I know in Arizona and they trust me. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX!:29:

edit...delete

Not at all! It is illegal for someone to do a "Straw Purchase" This is when someone who is not a prohibited person buys a gun under the pretext of keeping it for themselves but turns around and gives/sells it to someone who is a prohibited person!

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

As long as you are not a prohibited person then it is perfectly legal!

I know this for a fact because the person that I know in Arizona happens to be an attorney. He checked into this and it is totally legal!
edit...delete

I will have my friend look into this more carefully and if he agrees that the scenario which you present is, in fact, a straw purchase XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

I will call him this weekend and post what he finds out at a later time. Thank you for the info.

edit...delete

SJgunguy24
07-25-2009, 2:13 AM
Federal law states that you must be a legal resident of the state where you purchase the firearm. That said when you go to a gun store in any state you have to produce driver licence for that state to prove residence.

I have people in Arizona that have bought guns for me that are not on the California safe gun list and I just keep it in their name as I can't transfer to my name in California.

This is unusual, but I am very close with the people I know in Arizona and they trust me. Short of a scenario like this it will be difficult for you to buy in another state and transfer here if you can't prove residency in that state!:29:

FAIL on so many levels. Federal law doesn't state you have to be a resident to purchase a firearm. You can buy a gun wherever your heart desires. You cannot take delivery of that firearm untill you reach your home state. The only legal means to transport said firearm inter-state is via FFL. If your an FFL holder than your GTG.
And yeah that is a straw purchase, also handguns need to have paperwork (reg) unless it's a homebuild, or unless it was purchased before handgun registration was the law.(prior to 91' I.I.R.C.)
If your buddy buys a gun in AZ, hands it to you. You drive gun into Cali. Your federally screwed now.
Please play by the rules, yes they suck, but the only way to get these stupid laws changed is comply and go to court.

swmprat
07-25-2009, 2:37 AM
I think the only way to get around this in Arizona is a private purchase, if you buy from a private seller in Arizona the seller just needs to make sure you are at least 21yrs old and does not have worry about CA. law but the buyer does have to be concerned with his states laws.

SJgunguy24
07-25-2009, 5:21 AM
I think the only way to get around this in Arizona is a private purchase, if you buy from a private seller in Arizona the seller just needs to make sure you are at least 21yrs old and does not have worry about CA. law but the buyer does have to be concerned with his states laws.

Nope, even PPT firearms need to come into California via FFL, unless someone is moving into California. The FFL thing is federal, FFL holders are the only approved method to move firearms across state lines that were aquired outside of purchasers resident state.

Librarian
07-25-2009, 9:59 AM
I think the only way to get around this in Arizona is a private purchase, if you buy from a private seller in Arizona the seller just needs to make sure you are at least 21yrs old and does not have worry about CA. law but the buyer does have to be concerned with his states laws.

SJgunguy24 got it, but just to re-emphasize: the above is WRONG.

Federal law requires that firearms sales go through a FFL in the state of residence of the BUYER - it is illegal* to sell a gun directly to an unlicensed person who does not live in the same state as the owner of the gun.

If the buyer is from CA and the gun owner lives in AZ, that's an INTERSTATE transfer, and Federal law applies.

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transferring_firearms_Interstate

*one narrow exception detailed at the link

Ron-Solo
07-25-2009, 10:12 AM
Not at all! It is illegal for someone to do a "Straw Purchase" This is when someone who is not a prohibited person buys a gun under the pretext of keeping it for themselves but turns around and gives/sells it to someone who is a prohibited person!

I am not a prohibited person so there is nothing wrong with this. It would be no different if you had a relative in Nevada who buys you a gun there and gives it to you for a Christmas present here in California.

As long as you are not a prohibited person then it is perfectly legal!

I know this for a fact because the person that I know in Arizona happens to be an attorney. He checked into this and it is totally legal!

Just consider this....All those inmates in State Prison were represented by an attorney.

andalusi
07-25-2009, 12:50 PM
I will have my friend look into this more carefully and if he agrees that the scenario which you present is, in fact, a straw purchase then I we will not do it anymore.

I will call him this weekend and post what he finds out at a later time. Thank you for the info.

Jake, your friend is not a neutral party here. You'd do better by talking to a lawyer who *isn't* your pal---especially a lawyer who specializes in federal firearms law, if you can find one---and get an unbiased opinion, even if it costs you a few bucks to do so.

MAC USMC
07-26-2009, 10:15 AM
ONCE AGAIN

It has happened once again! A well-intentioned gun-buyer "thinks" he has a grasp on the extensive gun laws applicable in California only to find otherwise. Even attorneys get it wrong and are placed at risk of prosecution.

BE ALERT & BE WARY!! Gun laws are in place to deliberately LIMIT, RESTRICT, and CURTAIL firearms sales. It has never been about "protecting the consumer", product liability, patent rights, or even protecting citizens.

No other permitting or licensing process anywhere is as convoluted and confusing as gun laws here in California. Even the BATF employees can't give out accurate information.

NEVER , EVER take un-necessary chances on a firearms purchase no matter how enticing the deal appears. You will be biting into a s--t sandwich Pal.

hawk1
07-26-2009, 10:52 AM
ONCE AGAIN

It has happened once again! A well-intentioned gun-buyer "thinks" he has a grasp on the extensive gun laws applicable in California only to find otherwise. Even attorneys get it wrong and are placed at risk of prosecution.

BE ALERT & BE WARY!! Gun laws are in place to deliberately LIMIT, RESTRICT, and CURTAIL firearms sales. It has never been about "protecting the consumer", product liability, patent rights, or even protecting citizens.

No other permitting or licensing process anywhere is as convoluted and confusing as gun laws here in California. Even the BATF employees can't give out accurate information.

NEVER , EVER take un-necessary chances on a firearms purchase no matter how enticing the deal appears. You will be biting into a s--t sandwich Pal.

Mac, they have actually run a foul of federal law, not state law.

Big Jake
07-26-2009, 11:17 AM
I called my buddy yesterday and asked him to look into it based on the posts I have seen here! He said he would next week and let me know what he finds out!

FYI I only did this with him for two guns and one of which I recently traded for partial credit on another gun. If it turns out to be illegal then I certainly will not do it again as this was never my intention!:kest:

PokerPalace
07-26-2009, 8:23 PM
I called my buddy yesterday and asked him to look into it based on the posts I have seen here! He said he would next week and let me know what he finds out!

FYI I only did this with him for two guns and one of which I recently traded for partial credit on another gun. If it turns out to be illegal then I certainly will not do it again as this was never my intention!:kest:

:eek:

I really think you meant to say :

It's not really your gun, you just really like it. The firearm has never been in your possession, and is currently in AZ. At your friend's house. Where it should be. Because he is the registered owner of said firearm. Also because it would be direct violation of State / Federal laws to transfer ownership and transport said firearm across state lines without proper procedure and documentation. You were just kidding about the whole thing. :patriot: