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View Full Version : Purchasing an out of state, off list handgun.


Ifticar
07-23-2009, 4:34 PM
Is there a legal way to purchase an off list, modern handgun from out of State?

Librarian
07-23-2009, 4:45 PM
No.

Such an interstate transfer must go through a CA FFL, and unless you are exempt from the Roster - basically, a CA sworn law enforcement officer - the FFL may not transfer the off-Roster handgun to you.

Usual ways around this: A PPT from a current CA resident, including a LEO, and a gift from an out of state son, daughter, parent or grandparent.

ETA: there are a couple of rather esoteric ways that work. One is to have the gun converted to single-shot; the Roster exempts single-shot handguns, and after the transfer, convert it back to normal operation. The other is somewhat similar, the NERF concept, where one transfers through the FFL only the frame; the rest of the handgun is unregulated, and the parts can be sent to you separately. This is not yet tested, and would require an FFL of remarkable sophistication and boldness in the current climate

cineski
07-23-2009, 4:45 PM
Do you have blood parents or a wife that's a resident of another state? Have any LEO friends? Friends moving into CA? That's about the only legal way aside from you becoming a resident of a free state and buying it yourself.

SVRider
07-23-2009, 5:18 PM
ETA: there are a couple of rather esoteric ways that work. One is to have the gun converted to single-shot; the Roster exempts single-shot handguns, and after the transfer, convert it back to normal operation.

I had a discussion with DOJ's Firearms Training division (basically the guy who answers their technical questions) about this. My intention was to purchase an out of production bolt action pistol, however it has an internal 2-round magazine, hence it is a repeater, not a "single shot". He said in no uncertain terms that if the magazine was altered to not allow the bolt to close over the top of a round, it could be imported and DROS'd, however it could never be converted back to accept rounds in the internal magazine.

I realize that DOJ answers change with the weather, but I was referred to him specifically by the FFL I was discussing with. He was very firearms savy (not something you can say about a lot of the people working LE/DOJ) and clearly understood what I meant and what I wanted to do. I suppose it make take a judge to clearly rule on this, but he was very clear that it could not be coverted after coming in the state....

My second problem....most have muzzle brakes and hence, a threaded barrel!

aplinker
07-23-2009, 5:22 PM
I have tons of non-importable guns. I have many that were bought recently. All it takes is a change of finish, sights, internals to render the gun no longer importable, but there's nothing illegal about the change.

The guy is full of crap about not being able to change it. There are *ZERO* laws about modifying your firearm to be non-compliant with the certification list. In fact, it's quite obvious it's the other way around.

AR, AK, Mac and many other pistols are being done this way now.

I would LOVE to see what he would charge you with to back up that statement.



I had a discussion with DOJ's Firearms Training division (basically the guy who answers their technical questions) about this. My intention was to purchase an out of production bolt action pistol, however it has an internal 2-round magazine, hence it is a repeater, not a "single shot". He said in no uncertain terms that if the magazine was altered to not allow the bolt to close over the top of a round, it could be imported and DROS'd, however it could never be converted back to accept rounds in the internal magazine.

I realize that DOJ answers change with the weather, but I was referred to him specifically by the FFL I was discussing with. He was very firearms savy (not something you can say about a lot of the people working LE/DOJ) and clearly understood what I meant and what I wanted to do. I suppose it make take a judge to clearly rule on this, but he was very clear that it could not be coverted after coming in the state....

My second problem....most have muzzle brakes and hence, a threaded barrel!

Ifticar
07-23-2009, 5:28 PM
My wife's mother lives in a free state. I could have the handgun shipped to my mother in law.. She could gift it to my wife and send to her here in CA?

SVRider
07-23-2009, 5:28 PM
I have tons of non-importable guns. I have many that were bought recently. All it takes is a change of finish, sights, internals to render the gun no longer importable, but there's nothing illegal about the change.

The guy is full of crap about not being able to change it. There are *ZERO* laws about modifying your firearm to be non-compliant with the certification list. In fact, it's quite obvious it's the other way around.

AR, AK, Mac and many other pistols are being done this way now.

I would LOVE to see what he would charge you with to back up that statement.

I see you are local. The bigger issue may be to find an FFL willing to do it. I can find a single-shot sled to replace the mag follower, but got any ideas of who would be willing to do the transfer?

bondmid003
07-23-2009, 5:46 PM
My wife's mother lives in a free state. I could have the handgun shipped to my mother in law.. She could gift it to my wife and send to her here in CA?

Your mother in law would have to buy the gun, NOT you. She would then have to gift it to your wife, NOT you. Now the tricky part is getting the gun to CA. Your mother in law still has to send the gun to an FFL but its an intra-familial transaction and there is specific paperwork that the FFL has to fill out, but after that he/she can release the gun to your wife

Quiet
07-23-2009, 6:05 PM
My second problem....most have muzzle brakes and hence, a threaded barrel!

Threaded barrels are not allowed on semi-auto pistols that take detachable magazines.

threaded barrel + bolt-action pistol = legal
threaded barrel + lever-action pistol = legal
threaded barrel + single-shot pistol = legal
threaded barrel + revolver = legal
threaded barrel + semi-auto pistol with fixed 10 round or less magazine = legal
threaded barrel + semi-auto pistol with detachable magazine = illegal

ke6guj
07-23-2009, 6:10 PM
I had a discussion with DOJ's Firearms Training division (basically the guy who answers their technical questions) about this. My intention was to purchase an out of production bolt action pistol, however it has an internal 2-round magazine, hence it is a repeater, not a "single shot". He said in no uncertain terms that if the magazine was altered to not allow the bolt to close over the top of a round, it could be imported and DROS'd, however it could never be converted back to accept rounds in the internal magazine.

<snip>
My second problem....most have muzzle brakes and hence, a threaded barrel!

Doesn't matter. Threaded barrels are only regulated on semi-automatic pistols that have a detachable magazine. You can have a threaded barrel on your bolt-action pistol.

Ifticar
07-24-2009, 1:11 AM
Your mother in law would have to buy the gun, NOT you. She would then have to gift it to your wife, NOT you. Now the tricky part is getting the gun to CA. Your mother in law still has to send the gun to an FFL but its an intra-familial transaction and there is specific paperwork that the FFL has to fill out, but after that he/she can release the gun to your wife

Can that intra-familial transaction occur with my MIL remaining out of state? She mails the handgun to a CA FFL to be given to my wife?

ke6guj
07-24-2009, 2:37 AM
Yes, she can either deliver it in person to the FFL, or ship it via UPS/Fedex, if the FFL will accept shipments from non-licensees (not all will per store policy). She cannnot mail it via USPS.

bondmid003
07-24-2009, 7:18 AM
ke6 hit the nail on the head, it has to be shipped via UPS/FEDEX and not all FFL's will accept guns from non-lincensees

One Shot, One Dropped
07-24-2009, 11:23 PM
So, since it hasn't come up yet, what gun(s) are you looking into getting?

LexLuther
07-25-2009, 11:02 AM
No.

Such an interstate transfer must go through a CA FFL, and unless you are exempt from the Roster - basically, a CA sworn law enforcement officer - the FFL may not transfer the off-Roster handgun to you.

Usual ways around this: A PPT from a current CA resident, including a LEO, and a gift from an out of state son, daughter, parent or grandparent.

ETA: there are a couple of rather esoteric ways that work. One is to have the gun converted to single-shot; the Roster exempts single-shot handguns, and after the transfer, convert it back to normal operation. The other is somewhat similar, the NERF concept, where one transfers through the FFL only the frame; the rest of the handgun is unregulated, and the parts can be sent to you separately. This is not yet tested, and would require an FFL of remarkable sophistication and boldness in the current climate
Thank you, I allways appreciate your posts...