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eighteenninetytwo
07-22-2009, 7:21 PM
So this afternoon I received a fax at work from an FFL of his certificate so I could ship a gun there. Stupidly the fax number I gave was one that didn't just go to me but to my manager aswell. I was threatened with "summary dismissal if anything like this happens again or you use company property for anything to do with firearms" I have a meeting tomorrow with manager and HR. So here's the thing. EVERYONE uses the company property for personal use- we're in a time sensitive business which requires office presence so the only way to get things done, shopping, paying bills, getting things delivered is to have it done at the office. I know the manager has had wine delivered to the office and planty of other stuff, but because this bit of paper says that the store (it's pawn store) is a "dealer in firearms and non destructive devices" it's deemed highly inappropriate and a recurrence costs me my job. Any advice of phrases to use in this meeting. I'm sole breadwinner for wife and two kids so this is serious and I have to get it right. The real hypocrisy here is that this same manager was very happy to take two hours out of the middle of teh day to have me teach her to shoot a handgun when she thought she was being followed.

leitung
07-22-2009, 7:24 PM
Try to calmly explain the situation, and be sure to point out that everyone uses this equipment for personal use. If you can't use it, nobody should be able to use it.

AJAX22
07-22-2009, 7:25 PM
UZ5_JuUitlM

falawful
07-22-2009, 7:35 PM
YOU DO NOT USE CO. EQUIPMENT FOR YOUR OWN USES!!! EVER!!

You merely had a brain-fart and gave the shop's fax rather than the fax at home...

Nose Nuggets
07-22-2009, 7:38 PM
i think it would be beneficial to start with the question "what about my use of office equipment did you find inappropriate?" and work from there. If its the personal use aspect, you know what to do. If its solely due to firearms simply explain that you are sorry, you where unaware that you had an issue with firearms, and made a mistake when you assumed that because the purchase of firearms is completely legal, you did not think there would be an issue. apologize again, and state it wont ever happen again.

then, if you DO need to do it again, talk to you boss again and say "hey, i know we had an issue with this in the past, but im trying to keep myself in the office more and would really appreciate it if you would allow me to blah blah blah."

Scratch705
07-22-2009, 7:39 PM
hope u have some evidence of everyone else using company property for personal use or else its a moot argument especially against a manager.

assume that they won't believe anything you will say, and back it up with concrete proof. and then make the claim if everyone else can use company property why can't you?

squishyhead
07-22-2009, 7:45 PM
Since your wife and children are dependent on you, do NOT get on a soap box and start ranting about your 2nd Amendment rights. Just go in there tomorrow, explain that you weren't aware that the company had limits regarding which personal errands could be carried out on company property, appologize for the misunderstanding, and assure whoever needs to hear it that this will NEVER happen again. Feel it out, and tell them whatever they need to hear in order to prevent any problems that could jeopardize your employment there.

Once this is taken care of come back and vent on us, and maybe look into getting a different job. If you do get a new job, ALWAYS keep your personal and professional lives 100% seperate!

RandyD
07-22-2009, 8:21 PM
I am an attorney and I have represented clients in wrongful termination lawsuits. Any company worth working for will provide advance notice to its employees of objectionable office practices before they terminate an employee for engaging in those practices. It is hypocritical of the manager to use you to teach her how to shoot then admonish you for receiving a fax from a FFL. However, having said all of the above, I agree with squishyhead. You have a higher obligation to continue providing for your family and getting fired and causing them discomfort is not worth the principle of defending your Second Amendment Rights. Employers have a right to discriminate against your Second Amendment rights only the government is restrained by the Second Amendment. I suggest being apologetic. Inquire about other unknown office practices. Do not bring up what other employees and managers do on company time, this is about you not them. Confirm that you intend to adhere to company policies, and that you were completely unaware that this specific practice was prohibited.

vrand
07-22-2009, 8:24 PM
YOU DO NOT USE CO. EQUIPMENT FOR YOUR OWN USES!!! EVER!!

You merely had a brain-fart and gave the shop's fax rather than the fax at home...

Bingo

GrayWolf09
07-22-2009, 8:31 PM
I am an attorney and I have represented clients in wrongful termination lawsuits. Any company worth working for will provide advance notice to its employees of objectionable office practices before they terminate an employee for engaging in those practices. It is hypocritical of the manager to use you to teach her how to shoot then admonish you for receiving a fax from a FFL. However, having said all of the above, I agree with squishyhead. You have a higher obligation to continue providing for your family and getting fired and causing them discomfort is not worth the principle of defending your Second Amendment Rights. Employers have a right to discriminate against your Second Amendment rights only the government is restrained by the Second Amendment. I suggest being apologetic. Inquire about other unknown office practices. Do not bring up what other employees and managers do on company time, this is about you not them. Confirm that you intend to adhere to company policies, and that you were completely unaware that this specific practice was prohibited.

:iagree:Do NOT make an issue of this as misinformed and unfair it may be. You do not want to risk your job over this. When no one is in the office steal the fax machine and take it home with you. You will never have to use the office fax again.:Ivan:

Shotgun Man
07-22-2009, 8:34 PM
YOU DO NOT USE CO. EQUIPMENT FOR YOUR OWN USES!!! EVER!!

You merely had a brain-fart and gave the shop's fax rather than the fax at home...

While I applaud your creativity, I don't know whether this explanation would be credible.

The op's primary goal is keeping his job which I presume is as a clerk at a pawn shop. He likely is an at-will employee. He is not a civil servant where this explanation might afford him a degree of protection.

He has to feel out his employer. What would his employer deem sufficient rectification to allow this employee to keep his job? I will assume the OP is a valued employee. His employer probably wants to retain him.

I think a qualified mea culpa would be appropriate where the employee offers that he did not recognize that this was an infraction (other people do it after all). He did not intentionally violate the rules. He won't do it again and he apologizes.

Op, please let us know how it turns out. Good luck.

SJgunguy24
07-22-2009, 8:35 PM
I think it's horse crap if your manager wants to try and use this against you. I'd speak my mind and let them know exactly where you stand.
If your boss wants to take advantage of your knowledge to help her to protect herself during working hours. Then she needs to chill out on a fax from an FFL.

I don't work in an office environment and i'm not sure i'd last too long if I did. I will stand my ground though, especially if I know i'm getting shafted.

Sons of Liberty
07-22-2009, 8:38 PM
California is an At-Will Employment state. Generally, you can be fired for good cause, bad cause, or no cause. Employers can get in trouble for firing someone in conflict with state public policy. But that can sometimes be a difficult path for someone who is terminated.

Employers are made up of people who have all sorts of opinions about different subjects and are also real sensitive to issues involving workplace violence or issues that may point in that direction. Unemployment hearing administrative judges may be sensitive to employer concerns in this regard.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong...it's just the way it is.

Since you are a sole bread winner and need this job for the support of your family and if it were me, I think I would apologize, acknowledge the company's policy concerning personal use of company equipment, and indicate that it will not happen again.

Unemployment is high. It's good to have a job! :sweatdrop:

Shotgun Man
07-22-2009, 8:40 PM
Try to calmly explain the situation, and be sure to point out that everyone uses this equipment for personal use. If you can't use it, nobody should be able to use it.

Be careful about snitching on your fellow employees though.

MKE
07-22-2009, 8:46 PM
Don't say too much...just let them know you will not use company assets for personal business in the future unless you get authorization.

Reason for the firearm transaction? I'd tell them you were selling your firearm to cover bills.

shoupdawg
07-22-2009, 9:01 PM
Sucks. Good luck and hope all goes well!

I agree with what most folks said in response. Be apologetic, assure them it won't happen again, and do your best to keep your personal and professional life separate.

ybz
07-22-2009, 9:04 PM
i would suggest perhaps telling the truth: you are short on cash and seliing your wife's gun given to her by her late grandfather. you talked to the dealer and he must have gotten your fax number by calling the company since he knew where you work. you called him and already requested that he is to never fax any personal matter to your place of business...
p.s.
www.efax.com
good luck

Intimid8tor
07-22-2009, 9:10 PM
YOU DO NOT USE CO. EQUIPMENT FOR YOUR OWN USES!!! EVER!!

You merely had a brain-fart and gave the shop's fax rather than the fax at home...

X2

As a Manager, and to the company, you violated a policy. Throwing everyone under the bus doesn't help. Admit the mistake above and ensure it never happens again.

Saying that your manager took two hours out of their day to learn to shoot doesn't matter. She probably shouldn't have asked you to show her, but it was done outside of work. As a manager I work seven days a week and somewhere in the 70 hour per week range. If I want to take 2 hours in the middle of the day, so be it.

In short, you made a mistake and gave the wrong number. It won't happen again.

just my .02.

packnrat
07-22-2009, 9:12 PM
You can go to the sups house late at night and ring the bell. And say sorry to have botherd her at this hr and will talk at work latter in the day.
And in weeks to come she has no tires on her car,

or maybe not.
In



Invite her to go shooting.... Take her to a spot way out in the sticks.
Her six shot snuby.
You lots of ammo and bug guns.
Have a fun day, then drop her off at home.

.

GaffSD
07-22-2009, 9:27 PM
All,

There are two issues here, both of which I've seen at work, at large companies with comprehensive HR policies in place.

One...

From an HR/career standpoint... "I'm sorry... I didn't intend for this to come here... I've got so many numbers in my head these days."

This will stand up to ANY scrutiny, so long as you have not been warned in the past.

Two...

The equal protection stance. How many individuals have re-fi'd their home, and had some paperwork faxed to them?

Both are legal, and both are done at ALL offices. PERIOD... The problem is that the equal protection stance has to be established in court. When you have been fired and have no money.

You need to make your choice, and it is a personal one.

Respectfully,

Ron

(Note that I almost often respond to threads when I have a few drinks under my belt. I'm not a lawyer, and if I was, I'd be a half buzzed lawyer. With guns, so don't break in to my house.)

M. D. Van Norman
07-23-2009, 6:57 AM
I have a pro-concealed-carry sign posted right outside my office Ö in a state university. So far, Iíve received only positive comments, though itís not visible to the general public Ö yet. :devil2:

rkt88edmo
07-23-2009, 7:37 AM
Couple of choices

1. Admit nothing, deny everything, make counter accusations.

2. Explain as above that you thought discretionary use of office resources for personal biz, considering the amount of time necessary in office was the norm and that you aren't doing anything different or illegal than say faxing in a Dr.'s RX and see if HR is of the mind to apply the rules evenly to all personal biz on company time.

bruss01
07-23-2009, 7:49 AM
Originally Posted by falawful
YOU DO NOT USE CO. EQUIPMENT FOR YOUR OWN USES!!! EVER!!

You merely had a brain-fart and gave the shop's fax rather than the fax at home...
Bingo

DING*DING*DING*DING

We have a winner. Entirely plausible, not demonstrably untrue. Don't make this an argument about firearms or using company resources for personal use... you will lose those fights. Hope you didn't already blab yourself into a confession.

FastFinger
07-23-2009, 7:54 AM
In the future, if you must have access to private faxes at work, may I suggest using k7.net. They assign you a unique phone number and any faxes sent to that number are converted to PDF and emailed to your email account.

Of course set up a gmail account and do not use your biz email.
I believe the service costs $1/month.

Any voice mails are converted to mp3 files and also sent to your email.

Very handy service.

garandguy10
07-23-2009, 7:55 AM
I would say that if you are having a sit down with your manager and a HR person, that you are likely well on your way to unemployment. Mea culpa and a submissive, never happen again attitude on your part my save your job, or it may not. if you make it through the week and you are still employed, consider yourself lucky. Make damn sure that you never receive a non business related fax at your office again.

Maestro Pistolero
07-23-2009, 8:27 AM
First of all, apologize and vow it will never happen again.

But if they start gown the road of firing you, as opposed to 'writing you up' with a warning (which is what I expect will happen) then nicely, and calmly explain that personal faxes have been tolerated across the board for every employee, and that in the absence of any information or any articulated company policy to the contrary, any termination would be demonstrably unfair and bias, and will open up the company up to costly wrongful termination liability and an extremely unpleasant PR campaign on the part of you and your lawyer. Perhaps suggest that a more uniform policy of personal use of company equipment might be in order.

Then back down the rhetoric, and remind them how much you value the job, how much you have admired their fairness in the past, and wish to continue to contribute to the success of the company.

If that doesn't work, fall on the floor and throw a tantrum, because you are hosed.

jazman
07-23-2009, 9:28 AM
I am an attorney and I have represented clients in wrongful termination lawsuits. Any company worth working for will provide advance notice to its employees of objectionable office practices before they terminate an employee for engaging in those practices. It is hypocritical of the manager to use you to teach her how to shoot then admonish you for receiving a fax from a FFL. However, having said all of the above, I agree with squishyhead. You have a higher obligation to continue providing for your family and getting fired and causing them discomfort is not worth the principle of defending your Second Amendment Rights. Employers have a right to discriminate against your Second Amendment rights only the government is restrained by the Second Amendment. I suggest being apologetic. Inquire about other unknown office practices. Do not bring up what other employees and managers do on company time, this is about you not them. Confirm that you intend to adhere to company policies, and that you were completely unaware that this specific practice was prohibited.

This is good advice, and let them know how much you like the job and company. If however, they are intent on firing you, bring up in strong but reasonable terms the fact that everyone does it and by singling you out you will not sign anything they want you to sign (because they will), and will be talking with a lawyer.

RandyD
07-23-2009, 9:52 AM
Keep us posted on the outcome. Hint don't get on this site while at work (lol)

Draankol
07-23-2009, 10:29 AM
Please do yourself and your family a favor and tell HR and your manager you did not know this was against company policy, and you unknowingly made a bad decision. You will not do it again and you appreciate the clarification. Additionally, you might add that in the future, you will get permission before you receive any personal faxes at work. After a few inquiries for permission, they'll get sick of you asking and tell you not to bother them with it anymore. EVERYONE does it, they know that already, but that is no excuse, you just got caught.

I have only mentioned to a few people here at work that I own guns and am an avid shooter and now I am branded, yes BRANDED as the unstable, psycho, gun-toting Ex-Jarhead time bomb. Try to keep your gun activity out of the work place as much as possible. Fortunately for me, the HR director is a former Marine Captain and got to know me; we’re both unstable Ex-Jarheads!

The simple fact is, you need to keep your job. Take a personal stand by finding a new job, succeeding in life and leaving them behind wishing you still worked there. Good employees are very hard to replace, so be the best employee you can, then find a new job.

Leave the gun stuff at home.

If they ask why you thought it would be appropriate to have an FFL fax you paperwork at the office, you might, and I say MIGHT mention the work day shooting lesson with your boss. That might be risky though, because throwing your boss under the bus in front of HR will either A) expose her hypocrisy and get her off your back and make her look like an *** in front of HR, there by keeping you from retaliation or B) put you in the spot light for throwing your boss under the bus in front of HR.

I recommend you swallow your anger at the hypocrisy, keep your job and your family financially secure and find a better job, never bringing gun stuff into the work place again.

professionalcoyotehunter
07-23-2009, 10:33 AM
Never argue just explain the situation. If they dismiss you then raise hell!

tiki
07-23-2009, 10:42 AM
You can go to the sups house late at night and ring the bell. And say sorry to have botherd her at this hr and will talk at work latter in the day.
And in weeks to come she has no tires on her car,

or maybe not.
In



Invite her to go shooting.... Take her to a spot way out in the sticks.
Her six shot snuby.
You lots of ammo and bug guns.
Have a fun day, then drop her off at home.

.

Dude, what are you on?

xrMike
07-23-2009, 10:44 AM
First of all, apologize and vow it will never happen again.

But if they start gown the road of firing you, as opposed to 'writing you up' with a warning (which is what I expect will happen) then nicely, and calmly explain that personal faxes have been tolerated across the board for every employee, and that in the absence of any information or any articulated company policy to the contrary, any termination would be demonstrably unfair and bias, and will open up the company up to costly wrongful termination liability and an extremely unpleasant PR campaign on the part of you and your lawyer. Perhaps suggest that a more uniform policy of personal use of company equipment might be in order.

Then back down the rhetoric, and remind them how much you value the job, how much you have admired their fairness in the past, and wish to continue to contribute to the success of the company.Good advice, with a logical progression of attack/counter-attack, and an "out" for HR, so they don't have to go too far down the path of no return...

KylaGWolf
07-23-2009, 10:49 AM
OK I agree say it will never happen again. But I would also turn in anyone else for misusing the fax...like buying alcohol on the job...you wouldn't even have to tell them its you doing the turning in since you would fear retaliation. Also I would ask the HR to please put a policy in place of what is and is not acceptable when it comes to using the company fax. This way if it is not done already makes the rules clear to everyone in the office.

maxit
07-23-2009, 11:42 AM
Bingo

+1 :43:

Japsican
07-23-2009, 4:20 PM
So what's the verdict?:confused::confused::confused:

savageevo
07-23-2009, 9:24 PM
if I were you I would record the meeting. Just to CYA just in case you find yourself unemployed. You may have something in the meeting that they say that can land you half ownership of the company.:)

RolinThundr
07-24-2009, 1:07 AM
How did it go? If you are combing the classifieds for new work, may I suggest going back to your former workplace and within earshot of a bunch of employees, present your manager with a bill for the ammo used to teach her to shoot in the middle of a work day?

glbtrottr
07-24-2009, 3:57 AM
OP disappeared...

1BigPea
07-24-2009, 8:52 AM
OP disappeared...


Uh oh.

Decoligny
07-24-2009, 8:55 AM
I would assume that after his meeting with HR, if he is still employed, the last thing he would want to be doing is using the company computer to get onto CalGuns.

Lancear15
07-24-2009, 9:06 AM
i think it would be beneficial to start with the question "what about my use of office equipment did you find inappropriate?"

+1 :thumbsup:

Start off with this question. Arguing that everyone else uses the company property and office time for personal uses, is not a valid argument in any situation. That's like telling a cop, everyone speeds. Saying anything about your manager in a negative manner (like the wine) can only serve to damage yourself. I have had subordinates pit themselves against me with higher ups and it has always ended up bad for them. I would not get defensive, be compliant to any rules or requests they make, and play dumb as to any guilt.

Lancear15
07-24-2009, 9:13 AM
I think it's horse crap if your manager wants to try and use this against you. I'd speak my mind and let them know exactly where you stand.
If your boss wants to take advantage of your knowledge to help her to protect herself during working hours. Then she needs to chill out on a fax from an FFL.

I don't work in an office environment and i'm not sure i'd last too long if I did. I will stand my ground though, especially if I know i'm getting shafted.

This approach will not end well, I can guarantee that. Unless ruined relationships, or even worse layoffs or court cases is your idea of ending well. Its not worth the use of their fax machine.

locosway
07-24-2009, 9:15 AM
It's hard to be yourself and stand up for what you believe in when you work for someone else.

With the economy the way it is employers can hire and fire like there's no tomorrow. They have so many people trying to get work that they just treat people like numbers.

My last job I was put out for unknown reasons, and the only thing I could do was file for unemployment. Since I was the only one working I had to move back to CA with family. If it wasn't for my family I'm not sure how well we would be.

Everyone has given you great advice, and it's too bad life isn't fair, or even partially fair. Hopefully everything turns out alright once you've made it clear that you were unaware that you misused company equipment and that it won't happen again. I don't think you'll get canned from this, especially if there's no written rules prohibiting and no prior warnings about this.

RandyD
07-24-2009, 12:50 PM
This approach will not end well, I can guarantee that. Unless ruined relationships, or even worse layoffs or court cases is your idea of ending well. Its not worth the use of their fax machine.

Well said. When I discuss employment rights with my potential clients, I usually inform them that in California, employment is at-will, unless you have a contract that requires your employer to have cause to fire you. At-will means that an employer can fire you anytime for any reason except discriminatory reasons, and likewise you can quit anytime for any reason.

With unemployment at its current levels an employer has a large pool of available and qualified candidates that it can access to replace you in a short period of time. Keeping a job should be a priority especially if you have to support a family.

If you are being brought into HR for disciplinary reasons, that is not the time to point out prior misconduct or rule violations of your peers and supervisors or that the rules are being applied applied to you unfairly.

Glock22Fan
07-24-2009, 1:10 PM
If you are being brought into HR for disciplinary reasons, that is not the time to point out prior misconduct or rule violations of your peers and supervisors or that the rules are being applied applied to you unfairly.

+1000. This is the time to GROVEL!

Has the meeting happened yet? Any feedback?

Maestro Pistolero
07-24-2009, 1:20 PM
except discriminatory reasons
Like allowing everyone in the company to use the fax for personal reasons, but not a gun owner trying to effect a legal sale to to a Federal Firearms Dealer?

Glock22Fan
07-24-2009, 1:28 PM
Like allowing everyone in the company to use the fax for personal reasons, but not a gun owner trying to effect a legal sale to to a Federal Firearms Dealer?

Logic and reason are on your side. But, at the end of the day, the boss is the boss and it would cost tens of thousands to challenge this in court.

In my earlier days I was quite agressive about my workplace rights. Eventually I realized that it didn't matter who was right or who was wrong. The only thing that matters is, do you want a pay check cut at the end of each pay period? For most of us, unless ordered to do highly illegal things (and yes, that's happened to me too, after my employer had already been fined and the then managers fired for doing exactly that), we can't afford to stand on too much principle.

ponderosa
07-24-2009, 2:11 PM
eighteenninetytwo... where are you??? hope things went okay. good luck out there.

ponderosa
07-24-2009, 2:13 PM
I would assume that after his meeting with HR, if he is still employed, the last thing he would want to be doing is using the company computer to get onto CalGuns.

true that, OP was off the clock "07-22-2009, 08:21 PM"

eighteenninetytwo
07-24-2009, 4:17 PM
Hey guys. I'd just like to thank all those who gave advice. Bottom line I went in there and said "Sorry for using company property for personal use. I specifically try to deal with my personal business from the office as much as possible so I can be more productive. If you don't want me to do that I absolutely won't, but I will have to run the odd errand and take time out for personal things which I do not do at present." I never mentioned the firearms aspect of things at all (as it is actually irrelevant) and as I spend more time here than anyone else I also effectively got myself more flexibility to, for instance; go to UPS to collect, or Kinkos for faxing purposes. have a good weekend all.

jazman
07-24-2009, 4:22 PM
Very good, win/win situation.

RandyD
07-24-2009, 4:22 PM
Hey guys. I'd just like to thank all those who gave advice. Bottom line I went in there and said "Sorry for using company property for personal use. I specifically try to deal with my personal business from the office as much as possible so I can be more productive. If you don't want me to do that I absolutely won't, but I will have to run the odd errand and take time out for personal things which I do not do at present." I never mentioned the firearms aspect of things at all (as it is actually irrelevant) and as I spend more time here than anyone else I also effectively got myself more flexibility to, for instance; go to UPS to collect, or Kinkos for faxing purposes. have a good weekend all.

You used excellent judgment and tactics, and I infer that you still have a job, which is the best news.

TurboS600
07-24-2009, 4:25 PM
I am an attorney and I have represented clients in wrongful termination lawsuits. Any company worth working for will provide advance notice to its employees of objectionable office practices before they terminate an employee for engaging in those practices. It is hypocritical of the manager to use you to teach her how to shoot then admonish you for receiving a fax from a FFL. However, having said all of the above, I agree with squishyhead. You have a higher obligation to continue providing for your family and getting fired and causing them discomfort is not worth the principle of defending your Second Amendment Rights. Employers have a right to discriminate against your Second Amendment rights only the government is restrained by the Second Amendment. I suggest being apologetic. Inquire about other unknown office practices. Do not bring up what other employees and managers do on company time, this is about you not them. Confirm that you intend to adhere to company policies, and that you were completely unaware that this specific practice was prohibited.

+1. Don't get on the soapbox on this one. Simply explain that you didn't know that this policy existed since it was not in any of your new hire material, and if it was, it was overlooked. Provide for your family first and come here to dump on us. Good luck, brother.

TurboS600
07-24-2009, 4:26 PM
Hey guys. I'd just like to thank all those who gave advice. Bottom line I went in there and said "Sorry for using company property for personal use. I specifically try to deal with my personal business from the office as much as possible so I can be more productive. If you don't want me to do that I absolutely won't, but I will have to run the odd errand and take time out for personal things which I do not do at present." I never mentioned the firearms aspect of things at all (as it is actually irrelevant) and as I spend more time here than anyone else I also effectively got myself more flexibility to, for instance; go to UPS to collect, or Kinkos for faxing purposes. have a good weekend all.

Good man!

RandyD
07-24-2009, 4:34 PM
Like allowing everyone in the company to use the fax for personal reasons, but not a gun owner trying to effect a legal sale to to a Federal Firearms Dealer?

Maestro Pistolero,

In my earlier post, when I used the term "discriminatory reasons", I was not referring to unfair applications of company policies. I was referring to the protected classifications of discrimination such as race, age, gender, religion ect.

As I said in an earlier post, employers can fire at-will employees for any other reason. They can fire you for any subjective reason, including personal use of company property. I agree that if the company fired him it would have been hypocritical and unfair unfair of them, but in life there are lots of unfair practices that the law does not prohibit or provide a means to litigate against.

Here is an opposing twist on your point, if I discovered my secretary using my office equipment to distribute pro Second Amendment political literature, I have the right to fire her on the spot, and I can do this despite the fact that I use my office equipment (my computer) to post pro Second Amendment comments on the internet.

Sons of Liberty
07-24-2009, 5:00 PM
Well done! It was the right thing to do for you and your family's sake! Glad to hear your still in the ranks of the employed! Have a great weekend!:)

squishyhead
07-24-2009, 5:20 PM
I love happy endings!

DRM6000
07-24-2009, 5:43 PM
i'm glad it ended well.

about the manager taking a couple hours off to learn to shoot, she can. as a manager, she is an exempt employee.

i'm an exempt employee and can take some time off here and there for whatever reason. i don't abuse it though. heck, my boss knows that i'm into guns and she has told me to take time off and go to the shooting range when my assistant is working. i like working here. :D