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squishyhead
07-22-2009, 12:47 PM
Has anyone else read through this "independent" study that was cited all over the place today, supporting opposition to today's vote?

http://www.vpc.org/

It's filled with lies ranging from "assault pistols" to CCWs increasing crime. What really makes me mad is that they make no mention of the fact that statistically CCW holders are the most law abiding citizens in the country! How are these organizations allowed to be described as independent when from the very first sentence of their paper you can clearly tell how biased they are?

MasterYong
07-22-2009, 12:51 PM
Has anyone else read through this "independent" study that was cited all over the place today, supporting opposition to today's vote?

http://www.vpc.org/

It's filled with lies ranging from "assault pistols" to CCWs increasing crime. What really makes me mad is that they make no mention of the fact that statistically CCW holders are the most law abiding citizens in the country! How are these organizations allowed to be described as independent when from the very first sentence of their paper you can clearly tell how biased they are?

Can you quote the study that shows that CCW holders are the most law-abiding citizens in the country?

I've never heard that one.

Glock22Fan
07-22-2009, 1:18 PM
Yes, I think it was covered here (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=205293)

MasterYong
07-22-2009, 1:51 PM
Yes, I think it was covered here (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=205293)

Thanks.

The thread does not show at all that "statistically CCW holders are the most law abiding citizens in the country" though (although I know, Glock22Fan, that you were not the one that said that).

The quote in the thread only states: "Now even if we concede all 51 deaths detailed in the VPC report as wrongful deaths, averaging them across the over 6 MILLION permit holders in the United States and taking into account the two year timeframe, we get an average of .00425 per 1,000 per year.

In other words, even if they are 100% correct in their wildly flawed report, they have simply proven that permit holders commit murders at a rate that is 1/10th of the general public.

The VPC report also makes much of the fact that 7 of the victims in these news reports were police officers. They go out of their way to imply that as concealed carry has swept across the nation, law enforcement deaths have risen alarmingly. The only problem with this? It, like so much else that comes from the VPC, is blatantly untrue."

So it's saying that permit holders are less likely to commit murder, but it doesn't say they're the most law-abiding citizens (which may be true but I've yet to see evidence that supports it). Given the number of "may-issue" states, however, that makes sense, as only the cleanest individuals, in many states, can even get a CCW to begin with so that would stand to reason why they're so law-abiding (they were law-abiding to begin with LOL).

squishyhead
07-22-2009, 4:32 PM
Can you quote the study that shows that CCW holders are the most law-abiding citizens in the country?

I've never heard that one.

I rushed my words without clarification. I was refering to the statistics, like the ones above, that show as a demographic CCW holders commit crimes at a far lesser rate than the general public. They may not be the MOST law abiding, but compared to the average joe, they're definitely MORE law abiding.

Big Jake
07-22-2009, 4:47 PM
I saw another statistic by Dr. John Lott that says nationally only .25 of 1% of all ccw holders used their guns to commit crimes! This is a national average for all states within US.

I am sure it fluctuates a little when broken down by state!

Glock22Fan
07-22-2009, 5:25 PM
I've seen stats somewhere that showed that CCW holders were in fact less likely to commit a crime of violence than LEOs were. I think it was around half the rate.

bodger
07-22-2009, 5:29 PM
I've seen stats somewhere that showed that CCW holders were in fact less likely to commit a crime of violence than LEOs were. I think it was around half the rate.

If that's accurate, then the average CCW issuee (is that a word?) is less likely to cause harm with a firearm than the average sworn officer. I wonder if the Brady Campaign knows this and is plotting to disarm LEOs.

McCrown
07-22-2009, 6:03 PM
I wonder if the Brady Campaign knows this and is plotting to disarm LEOs.

:willy_nilly:

squishyhead
07-22-2009, 6:42 PM
I saw another statistic today that compared these allegedly ~60 bad shootings of CCW holders, to those of LEO's. It made the point that CCW holders, as a whole, have fewer bad shootings over 2 years than LEOs do in a month. Is this true?

Maestro Pistolero
07-22-2009, 6:50 PM
I saw another statistic today that compared these allegedly ~60 bad shootings of CCW holders, to those of LEO's. It made the point that CCW holders, as a whole, have fewer bad shootings over 2 years than LEOs do in a month. Is this true?

If it is, it would be easily attributable to the fact that LE can't walk away from a situation like a CCW holder can (and should, usually). The LE has to take a stand and make a tough decision way more often than the average CCW holder.

squishyhead
07-22-2009, 7:00 PM
If it is, it would be easily attributable to the fact that LE can't walk away from a situation like a CCW holder can (and should, usually). The LE has to take a stand and make a tough decision way more often than the average CCW holder.

Isn't that backwards? If LEOs have a much wider window for what constitutes a clean shoot, as opposed to a CCW holder who can only have a clean shoot if it's in self defense, shouldn't they have fewer bad shootings (because of the more legitimate reasons they have available to them to legally shoot?)

I would agree that LEO's would have higher numbers, simply because they're forced into situations more often than an average CCW holder, and the more times they are exposed to those situations, the more chances there are for something to go wrong.