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View Full Version : I need a BUG


Fjold
07-22-2009, 1:07 PM
Something to add to my permit when I don't want to carry the M&P 40C.

I don't like the KelTec autos (had the 380 and sold it) and the Ruger LPCs are so similar in size that I don't think that I'd like them either.

I looked at the Kahr PM9 (3" barrel, 9mm) and I like that size, is there anything else comparable/worth looking at? (on or off roster)

MILLITIAof1
07-22-2009, 1:13 PM
I got a S&W snub nose for sale:D

Bowser
07-22-2009, 1:13 PM
hk p7m8!

ke6guj
07-22-2009, 1:17 PM
my friend carries a PM9 as a BUG. He likes it. Had a 340PD and swapped over to the PM9.

Fjold
07-22-2009, 1:34 PM
I got a S&W snub nose for sale:D

It's not any smaller or lighter than my M&P 40C and I'm left handed so I don't like double action revolvers.

hk p7m8!

Bigger and heavier than my present gun also.

MasterYong
07-22-2009, 1:48 PM
I was recently in the market for a lightweight handgun as well.

The G26 (9mm) fits bigger hands well enough with the mag extensions.

I settled on a G19 though. Haven't got it yet, but it was really comfortable. I have no idea if it's smaller than your 40C or not. I'd imagine the "C" stands for compact and I've never seen an M&P compact so there you go.

rivviepop
07-22-2009, 1:53 PM
CZ 2075 RAMI -- comes in 9mm or 40, same OAL as your M&P 40C (shorter barrel tho) and is only 3oz more. Basically same sized gun. You could also go with the RAMI P if you wanted to stay polymer, and they have a decocker version available as well but only in 9mm.

http://cz-usa.com/products/by-category/sub-compact/

ke6guj
07-22-2009, 1:55 PM
why mention a gun that is the same size as what he already has, and is heavier to boot?

Fjold is looking for something smaller than what he has now, in the PM9 class. The problem is that in 9mm/40, there is nothing except the Rohrbaugh (sp?), which is more money, not rostered, and more hand-fit, IIRC. I think the next smallest 9mm is the Walther PPS, but since that is not Rostered, I haven't had a chance to see one in person. But the reviews seem to like it.

BigRich
07-22-2009, 2:11 PM
Another thing to look at is the Khar PM9 will handle +P ammo, the Rohrbaugh is not rated for it. I have a KPM9 in all black with night sights on it. It is a great shooter. Mine needed to have the barrel crown fixed which took about 10 minutes to do. I polished the feed ramp in the process. The little pistol has never had a malfunction of any kind in the 300+ rounds I have fired through it. It has a real shine for CorBon 115 gr. +P hollow points. That load shoots right to the top of the sights at 10 yards and makes 1.5-2.5" groups (full magazines) if I haven't had too much coffee. The only negative is that the back edge of the slide hold open lever is quite sharp and I am reluctant to grind through the black finish to round it off.

ke6guj
07-22-2009, 2:17 PM
Another thing to look at is the Khar PM9 will handle +P ammo, the Rohrbaugh is not rated for it.Is that documented anywhere? I remember my friend thinking he had seen tht it was +P+ rated. Guess what, it isn't:eek: A barrel would last about 100 rounds before it peened the breech block so much that it would fail to return to battery. Kahr ended up replacing the gun, and now it lives on 9mm only with no issues.

CSACANNONEER
07-22-2009, 2:35 PM
The little Sig .380 seems like a good choice. Also, I've heard good things about the Seecamps.

cineski
07-22-2009, 4:00 PM
Kahr also has the P380. Might want to check that out. It's even smaller than the PM9, albeit at the cost of caliber.

redcliff
07-22-2009, 4:29 PM
I'm very pleased with my Kahr PM9; its accurate, reliable and easy to carry. I normally use a pocket holster and just stick in the front pocket of my shorts.

My friends with concealed weapon permits that tried it have liked it so much that they each bought one also.

The PM9 is rated for +p ammunition; I use Federal HST 124gr in mine. I'm not even sure there is an industry standard for +p+ ammunition.

stich
07-22-2009, 4:42 PM
I just got a Bersa Firestorm .380. Very good reviews on this gun and I do like it a lot. Havn't had it long enough to give a full review myself but it shoots straight. Now if I can only get ammo for it. :mad:

BigRich
07-22-2009, 5:30 PM
I think the Bersa is a bit larger than what the OP is looking for. He wants something really small. Re the Seecamp; I read an article about the Seecamp 380 and it really stressed the point that there was quite a bit of recoil. I don't remember the source details as it was a paper magazine article. I am amazed by the relatively low recoil level of my PM9 with Cor Bon 115 JHP +P. When I shoot Winchester 127 gr +P+ stuff in it the recoil level goes up enough to make the little gun hard to control in fast follow up shots and the accuracy in my gun is not wonderful. At close range the accuracy issue is moot and it would certainly put an eye out.

mej16489
07-22-2009, 5:38 PM
AMT Backup .45ACP

BigRich
07-22-2009, 5:47 PM
The AMT B/U 45 is a heavy chunk of a gun. Mine was rough, unreliable and inaccurate even at close range. I sold it off as soon as I could. It also has a horrendous trigger pull. It would not ride well in front pocket carry.

tankerman
07-22-2009, 5:56 PM
I'm left handed so I don't like double action revolvers.That's a confusing statement.

How would that matter when you're hunting, target shooting or even carrying it as a back-up? Don't think many folks plan on reloading a snubbie that's carried as defensive gun. It's a very close quarters firearm, not a cross street shoot-out, tactical entry/fighting gun.

hawk1
07-22-2009, 6:13 PM
Buy mine...:)

http://calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=204225

I might even be driving up to Bakersfield this weekend....

Timberland
07-22-2009, 6:21 PM
off roster and probably nicer than a kahr http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:5ePzObwAIZuKQM:http://www.gunblast.com/images
walther pps
http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:qAvJFUpBjuakuM:http://slovenskainzercia.sk/

forgiven
07-22-2009, 6:22 PM
I like the Beretta Tomcat with silver tip ammo.

HowardW56
07-22-2009, 6:23 PM
S&W J frame!

McCrown
07-22-2009, 6:48 PM
How does the SA EMP compare in size to the PM9?

TonyM
07-22-2009, 7:25 PM
off roster and probably nicer than a kahr http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:5ePzObwAIZuKQM:http://www.gunblast.com/images
walther pps
http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:qAvJFUpBjuakuM:http://slovenskainzercia.sk/

+1 on the PPS, I love mine, it's so thin it disappears.

C_1
07-22-2009, 10:58 PM
Since you dont like the Kel-Tecs (P32, P3AT, P11 or PF9), or the Ruger LCP, here are some other choices you might like:

Kahr CW9, P9, PM9 or P380
NAA Guardian
Rohrbaugh R-9
Ruger LCR
Seecamp LWS380
S&W J-frame revolver
Taurus small frame revolver
Walther PPS

I would recommend the Kahr CW9 or P9, but since you're already looking at the PM9, go with that. Perfect for carry concealed or as a back up. If you want smaller, theres a Kahr 380.

randy
07-23-2009, 1:38 AM
It wouldn't surprise me if 90% of LAPD and LASD who carry BUG carry a lightweight Smith J frame.

Quickdraw Mcgraw
07-23-2009, 12:46 PM
+1 on the Kahr CW9 I frikkin love mine! 15oz. and 3000rds without a single problem...even my glock23 has a few jams in the first 3000rds!

otherwise mabye a seecamp....32 or .380?? never shot one, but...

Sobriquet
07-23-2009, 2:04 PM
Heckler & Koch P2000sk.

jmf_tracy
07-23-2009, 2:32 PM
i would suggest either the kahr PM-9, XD9 subcompact or CZ 2075 RAMI 9mm. i have all three and like them and my CZ 2075 RAMI is for sale in the firearms section.

aplinker
07-23-2009, 3:25 PM
The PM9 is good enough to be a primary, but small enough to be a BUG.

It's really hard to be competitive with it, and I've yet to see something beat it.

JBird33
07-23-2009, 5:31 PM
The PM9 is good enough to be a primary, but small enough to be a BUG.

It's really hard to be competitive with it, and I've yet to see something beat it.

Agreed 100%. Have one and love it.

cineski
07-23-2009, 6:00 PM
I just picked up a PM9. Shooting it in the following week. This thing is flipping small. I added a pearce grip extension which makes it perfect. Otherwise it's just a matter of curling your pinky under so it rests on the bottom of the magazine. Hopefully it's as good as my P45 is, which has been awesome so far.

The Annoyed Man
07-23-2009, 7:30 PM
When I carry a BUG, which isn't very often, I use a 642 S&W, carried in either a Desantis Nemesis pocket holster, or a Galco ankle holster. I have a little P3AT, but it's a last resort pistol. I would never use it as my principle BUG. It's not so much that it's a bad pistol (although it borders on "junk"), it's that I'm left handed, so whenever the pistol goes into a pocket, I invariably wind up accidentally pushing the magazine eject button (which is on the left side of the pistol, and therefore "facing outward" in my pocket); and when the pistol comes out of the pocket, the magazine is sticking half an inch out of the grip. With my luck, that's what would happen the one time I actually needed to present the weapon in self-defense.... ....pull your gun out, and the magazine drops out the bottom onto the floor in front of you. That might could get you killed.

Maplewood
07-24-2009, 8:41 AM
Get some throwing knives, and find a guy at the circus to train you. Or throwing stars and find ninja to teach you.

1911su16b870
07-24-2009, 9:38 AM
BUG -> Glock 26/27 in Galco ankle holster

BigRich
07-24-2009, 3:26 PM
"Or throwing stars and find ninja to teach you."
Kalifornya law has made throwing stars illegal, along with shobi-zuis (I don't even know what that is and it's illegal) along with all kinds of arcane "weapons".

Back to subject; I think the PM9 is really hard to beat as a BUG.

Fjold
07-24-2009, 4:52 PM
That's a confusing statement.

How would that matter when you're hunting, target shooting or even carrying it as a back-up? Don't think many folks plan on reloading a snubbie that's carried as defensive gun. It's a very close quarters firearm, not a cross street shoot-out, tactical entry/fighting gun.

Not really, this is strictly for self defense. I don't expect it to do anything like target shooting or hunting. I shoot my carry gun a couple of times a month to keep practiced and double action revolvers are just cumbersome for lefties to reload and if you ever have to open the cylinder for anything like a backed out primer, etc. they are extremely clumsy when you have to access the cylinder release and open the cylinder for lefties.

Slap and rack can be done with either hand but manipulating the controls on a DA revolver has to be done from the right hand side.

I like the fact that snubbies are small and recognize that they are for the close quarters situations, that's not the issue. It's the single minded design for righties that is hard to get around.

Sheepdog1968
07-24-2009, 5:19 PM
Glock 27 (40 cal) is as small as the Glock 26 (9 mm) and holds just one less round. Not sure if you are looking for something smaller though.

JBird33
07-24-2009, 5:31 PM
The mini Glocks aren't nearly as small as the PM9.

ETA: The P2000sk isn't really comparable in size to the PM9 either. Not bad suggestions, but the OP wanted something similar and the Glocks and Hk are both fatter, heavier weapons.

MrEd
07-24-2009, 5:36 PM
+1 on the p2000Sk from Heckler&Koch , excellent little gun that has not let me down as of yet . I have mine loaded with hornady TAP

tankerman
07-24-2009, 8:29 PM
I like the fact that snubbies are small and recognize that they are for the close quarters situations, that's not the issue. It's the single minded design for righties that is hard to get around.
Unless you plan on reloading, what other controls are there to worry about?

I look at snubbies, the same way I look at mouse guns, last resort most likely in a situation that has already gone to full contact (body on body). I wouldn't be reloading, so again the orientation of that one and only non-centered control is inconsequential.

Peter W Bush
07-24-2009, 8:47 PM
Colt Mustang Pocketlite. Great guns!

Fjold
07-24-2009, 8:52 PM
I guess it's just me. I want guns that work for me, not one that I have to compromise to use. If for any reason I have to open the cylinder there is just no easy way to do it. If it's a pain to practice with then I won't practice as much, which is never good and my BUG may be my primary if I'm in shorts and a T shirt.

chefdude
07-24-2009, 8:57 PM
sig P232 is a great realiable, straight shooting bug, and its a sig too