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YoungGunZ
07-21-2009, 3:09 PM
I remember seeing some rare guns that were being advertised on this website from Texas, I wonder if that was the guy who got busted.

Anyways, an FBI special agent John Thomas Shipley from Texas has been buying and reselling guns through various web sites (sold over 50 guns over a 3 year period, which doesn't seem like alot) and is now facing multiple charges such as selling firearms without FFL, buying "under priced, under valued, or rare guns" and then selling them for profit, straw buy etc...

Here's the Federal Grand Jury Indictment:

http://kdbc.images.worldnow.com/images/incoming/News/Shipley_Indictment.pdf

Fjold
07-21-2009, 3:12 PM
Why would you put this in the "Private Firearms Sales" forum?

frank828
07-21-2009, 3:16 PM
:Ivan:

professionalcoyotehunter
07-21-2009, 3:22 PM
:hide:

harmoniums
07-21-2009, 3:30 PM
read it, and yeah seems like he was dealing for profit.
there were mentions of him listing a firearm on gunbroker that he didn't even have in his possession yet.
hes going down, and let this be a warning to all those flippers here who were selling 10 lowers at a time (at inflated prices) during the post election rush

THT
07-21-2009, 3:36 PM
Yeah, he bought and sold on Snipers Hide...hope none of the Hiders get in trouble because of him. What pisses me off the most is he allegedly abused his LEO discount to buy guns at a discount and then either pre-sold or sold them at a profit.

audihenry
07-21-2009, 3:47 PM
Yeah, he bought and sold on Snipers Hide...hope none of the Hiders get in trouble because of him. What pisses me off the most is he allegedly abused his LEO discount to buy guns at a discount and then either pre-sold or sold them at a profit.

How is that abusing it? The only thing he abused is dealing in firearms without a license.

tcrpe
07-21-2009, 3:53 PM
How is that abusing it? The only thing he abused is dealing in firearms without a license.

Could be related to this:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=149510

1923mack
07-21-2009, 4:33 PM
At least he ws not stealing from citizens and then selling. Sounds like he was beng a capitalist and buying low and selling high. What he was doing was mostly legal, he was just doing to many deals per year to not have a license. Licenses are cheap so not sure why he neglected to get one.

rg_1111@yahoo.com
07-21-2009, 4:39 PM
How is that abusing it?

He was using his LEO Status to buy the guns that he wanted to resell. That's how.
If he kept the guns that is different.

Scratch705
07-21-2009, 5:53 PM
that is how all businesses operate. they get a reseller's permit, become a vendor for a distributor and buy cheap, sell at profit.

that agent's only issue was he didn't get a FFL. if he got his license, then this wouldn't of been an issue.

coop44
07-21-2009, 8:19 PM
how is that wrong? Aside from being a dick? Another example of LE "exemption", thinking he is above the law.I hope he makes a lot of special friends in jail.

Amacias805
07-21-2009, 9:38 PM
How is that abusing it? The only thing he abused is dealing in firearms without a license.

its the same thing if you get an employee discount for your self and then sell it to someone else. your abusing the discount....

besides that, according to the INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION of CHIEFS of POLICE they're not suppose to get any special treatment based off of they're official status.

J-cat
07-21-2009, 10:22 PM
how is that wrong?

Well, he engaged in a business without a license. There is a difference between buying a gun, playing with it, and then selling it after you don't like it no more; and buying with the intent to immediately resell for profit. The former is a hobby. The latter is a business.

JDay
07-21-2009, 11:49 PM
how is that wrong? Aside from being a dick? Another example of LE "exemption", thinking he is above the law.I hope he makes a lot of special friends in jail.

He'll be kept in protective custody while serving time.

dirtydave1
07-22-2009, 12:39 AM
He'll be kept in protective custody while serving time.

If he serves any time.

randy
07-22-2009, 3:08 AM
So much for capitalism.

It doesn't look to me from the complaint that he was using his position to purchase the firearm he was using it as a sales pitch.

It looks to me like he's doing a service. If you were looking for a 1893 Winchester and he found one for you then you both make out. If he makes money for his time good for him.

As far as getting his FFL well.......

J-cat
07-22-2009, 6:07 AM
The point is he was breaking the law and working for the FBI. That's a big nono. The only law breaking the FBI allows is if it's on BEHALF of the FBI.

Henry47
07-22-2009, 8:55 AM
I've read that he had up to 280 listings on gunbroker.com. He'd list guns that weren't in his possession, but could get if they sold, presumably to keep his overhead low. When he sold the gun, he'd then buy it from his source, and fill out the 4473 form saying he was the intended recipient, which he wasn't. If you Google his name there is a PDF form of the indictment. Among them were a Nighthawk Custom Vickers Tactical, and a Barrett .50BMG. It says he had $118,000 in gross sales, which isn't chump change.

but how much profit did he make?

IsaacGlass
07-22-2009, 10:30 AM
So the question remains, how many rifle and/or ammo can you sell per year before the LEO/LAW considers it dealing?
Other than selling 5 handguns per year, and purchasing 1 every 30 days.

tcrpe
07-22-2009, 10:53 AM
So the question remains, how many rifle and/or ammo can you sell per year before the LEO/LAW considers it dealing?
Other than selling 5 handguns per year, and purchasing 1 every 30 days.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=149510

ke6guj
07-22-2009, 10:54 AM
So the question remains, how many rifle and/or ammo can you sell per year before the LEO/LAW considers it dealing?
Other than selling 5 handguns per year, and purchasing 1 every 30 days.ATF doesn't quantify it. It is a moving target based on the individual circumstances.

CA doesn't quantify it either for long guns. They do have a limit of no more than 5 handgun transactions (multiple handguns to a single person at a single time count as one transaction) per calendar year.

THT
07-22-2009, 10:58 AM
So the question remains, how many rifle and/or ammo can you sell per year before the LEO/LAW considers it dealing?
Other than selling 5 handguns per year, and purchasing 1 every 30 days.

I think it has more to do with intent than quantity.

johnthomas
07-22-2009, 11:01 AM
Let me make this perfectly clear, My first two names are my screen name in this forum and I am originally from Texas, but my last name is not Shipley, I am not an FBI agent. I am not this guy.

johnthomas
07-22-2009, 11:29 AM
When you buy a gun for someone else, that is breaking the law, "straw Purchase".
He bought several guns with proof that they were for him and turned around and sold them. His status as a FBI agent will weigh heavy on this case, he should have known better. I hate to see LEO's go down for breaking the law, but what is good for the goose is good for gander. This man allowed greed to take over and ruin his career.

randy
07-23-2009, 1:04 AM
If you buy a gun and complete the dros and then sell it and do the dros you have not broken any laws that I can see. Two legal transactions have occured.

PIRATE14
07-23-2009, 9:22 AM
ATF doesn't quantify it. It is a moving target based on the individual circumstances.

CA doesn't quantify it either for long guns. They do have a limit of no more than 5 handgun transactions (multiple handguns to a single person at a single time count as one transaction) per calendar year.

Well this leads to selective prosecution and random targets that the BATF doesn't like......which isn't good cause it's not quantified/explicit.....

This is Texas.....guns are bought sold traded all the time.....what highlighted this guy is one of his 50BMGs ended up in Mexico......

This guy is in El Paso......:mad:

Z ME FLY
07-23-2009, 9:25 AM
So much for capitalism.

It doesn't look to me from the complaint that he was using his position to purchase the firearm he was using it as a sales pitch.

It looks to me like he's doing a service. If you were looking for a 1893 Winchester and he found one for you then you both make out. If he makes money for his time good for him.

As far as getting his FFL well.......

A service? I would say he was breaking the law. Using his power to get firearms.

ke6guj
07-23-2009, 10:49 AM
Well this leads to selective prosecution and random targets that the BATF doesn't like......which isn't good cause it's not quantified/explicit.....I wouldn't disagree with you on this. I don't think it is right to have the law be vague in what "dealing" is. I have heard it argued that if you quantify it at 25 or 50 firearms in a year, then they'll just deal up to 24 or 49, to stay just this side of the line. But their intent is to deal in firearms, but without an FFL.

And if you have that specific limit, what about the guy who needs to legitimately liquidate his collection? Can he only sell 24 firearms, and must hold onto the rest til next year?

This is Texas.....guns are bought sold traded all the time.....what highlighted this guy is one of his 50BMGs ended up in Mexico......
Bingo, he made it on their radar screen.

highpowermatch
07-23-2009, 11:33 AM
The point is he was breaking the law and working for the FBI. That's a big nono. The only law breaking the FBI allows is if it's on BEHALF of the FBI.

Nice! soooooo true

akjunkie
07-01-2010, 5:28 PM
I havent really done to much research on this subject but i got this link from a friend who is a LEO.

http://www.shipleylegalfund.com/

RTE
07-01-2010, 10:35 PM
My thought on the matter.
The guy was buying and selling in quanity (ie dealing)

If he bought 10 and sold 5 in a year
bought 10 more and sold 2 in a year
bought 10 more and sold 8 in a year
Check for A D D
If he bought 100 in one year and then sold 50 and bought another 100 the next year....I'd say dealer.....if he bought for someone else Ding Ding Dealer

Doesn't it all come down to the state wants their cut of tax monies?
But using his LEO credentials to buy at discounted prices and resell for profit is Abuse of credentials

Mac
07-02-2010, 12:32 AM
Yeah I can understand it. They don't make a lot of $$. they get paid Peanuts.