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View Full Version : Help me find my dream gun :) please. H&K P7


zcrehan
07-20-2009, 5:34 PM
I recently bought myself a Sig Pro 2009. I did this so that I could own a reasonably priced, well made, and efficient combat pistol to have as my "go to"

I love the gun to death but I still have a void in my soul. A void that I feel can only be filled by the first handgun to ever catch my eye and make me say, wow, I want that.

I am talking about an H&K P7 type pistol. I am willing to sell some of my current guns to acquire one. Although I would rather sell my camera equipment first and will likely do that. I do not have completely stagnant income or anything, but my current economic position does not reasonably allow for the purchase of a one thousand dollar handgun. I will make it happen anyway.

I check calguns and gunbroker daily, if not more frequent, and lately I have become so frustrated with the "no sales to California" (and this is after I beg them, please sell to me, here is how you do it) STEALS on P7M8's that I have been thinking there must be a better way.

I have heard some things about folks in California using intermediary FFL's to acquire guns from brokers unfriendly to the state. Can I get some words on that?

Also, are there any other forums or websites I ought to be aware of?


Truth be told, I would prefer to purchase one of the surplus P7's (due to cost only) with the hopes of it eventually becoming a sort of project gun with a refinishing in mind. Getting too hot shouldn't be a major issue for me, I do plan to shoot the weapon though and perhaps if I do actually end up in Texas, as a CCW.



Thanks very much for taking the time to help me out with this, or just to offer your experiences, or perhaps some pictures of any P7's :)

ivanimal
07-20-2009, 5:36 PM
Location?

mike100
07-20-2009, 5:39 PM
I actually thought about unloading my last year production P7M8 a couple of weeks ago, but then I came to my senses. I'd sell or trade a USP in a heartbeat, but the P7 is on the keep list if I had to liquidate half of my collection for money.

Saigon1965
07-20-2009, 5:39 PM
Have you posted a WTB thread here? Posting your location will help - There's a PSP at Dublin guns and knives -

zcrehan
07-20-2009, 5:47 PM
Hey there, I have not posted a WTB thread here at this time. I just updated my location which is a good idea :)

Gunrunners, which is just about down the street from me, recently had a P7. Unfortunately it was marked LEO only and priced at 900+. For that price I will drop the extra 2 or 3 hundred and get a NIB or LNIB p7m8.

elSquid
07-20-2009, 5:50 PM
Have you posted a WTB thread here? Posting your location will help - There's a PSP at Dublin guns and knives -

Yeah, I saw that. I think they were asking ~$750 for it?

-- Michael

Quiet
07-20-2009, 7:15 PM
When looking for a H&K P7 online, keep in mind that the H&K P-7M8 is the only P7 variant on the CA DOJ approved list (expires 09-10-2010).
So, the H&K P-7, P-7 PSP, P-7M10 and P-7M13 can not be shipped into CA and/or sold by a CA FFL dealer, unless you are an exempt person (LEO) or use an exemption (intra-familial gift/single-shot/PPT).

zcrehan
07-20-2009, 10:11 PM
I'm aware :)

Saigon1965
07-20-2009, 10:12 PM
It started last year at +900 IIRC -

Yeah, I saw that. I think they were asking ~$750 for it?

-- Michael

Cameron
07-21-2009, 1:44 AM
Very nice choice in a dream gun. Actually the first gun I ever shot. My dad has bought a former police issue one, and its actually in great shape, you'd almost never know it was used. You're right, they do heat up - just bring two guns to the range while, so you have something to shoot while the P7 cools down.

sd1023x
07-21-2009, 7:10 AM
Okay......here's how i'd do it

1. I did a quick search on GB and if I wanted a HK P7 really bad, I'd pick this one. http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=134721845

2. Contact seller after winning bid, I'll see if he will send to California. Mostly likely he's not, so my next step is a friendly CA DOJ approved FFL who's willing to play ball and act as a middleman to get the pistol to my local CA FFL.

Calgun Member Thunderbird is in Oklahoma and he's a CA DOJ approved FFL, he'll do the 'middleman' work for you. PM Thunderbird and ask him all the questions you want, he owns a brick and mortar shop in Oklahoma and he has good references on Calguns. VERYVERY reasonable prices and fast response.

He help my friend w/ a $1k Arsenal SGL, from the winning auctioneer:
a. Thunderbird sent his FFL to Auctioneer
b. Auctioneer sent Arsenal to Thunderbird in Oklahoma
c. Thunderbird recieved FFL info from friends local CA FFL
d. Thunderbird makes Arsenal CA compliant and ships to friends local CA FFL

3. Now you just have to do the 10 day without goin nutz!

J-cat
07-21-2009, 8:24 AM
Here you go:

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=134711149

sd1023x
07-21-2009, 9:03 AM
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=134793108

OOOOO...wonder how much....

oogway
07-21-2009, 11:02 AM
http://www.summitgunbroker.com/H_K_P7.html

zcrehan
07-21-2009, 11:13 AM
Hey! Thanks so much for the words on the middleman process.

I suppose I should clarify, I am looking for a DEAL! I really like that hard chrome but it's simply out of my price range.

Also please be sure if you're gonna tease with links to P7's that it's possible to get them into California... Thanks for the eye candy anyway, although plum slides are a bit fugly.

locosway
07-21-2009, 11:53 AM
There's a P7 at the Turners in Fountain Valley.

StoneRoots
07-21-2009, 12:04 PM
What kind of camera gear do you want to sell? My gurl needs a new hobby, otherwise my firearm and ammunition spending might come into question... :43:

Shawn L
07-21-2009, 12:23 PM
Locosway how mch were they asking for the P7.

locosway
07-21-2009, 1:00 PM
No idea, think it was around $1200. Give them a call and see if they even still have it.

Gunaria
07-21-2009, 1:06 PM
Have you posted a WTB thread here? Posting your location will help - There's a PSP at Dublin guns and knives -

Dang that thing is still there? :eek:

Gunaria
07-21-2009, 1:06 PM
It started last year at +900 IIRC -

No wonder why, they keep raising the price on it.:rolleyes:

J-cat
07-21-2009, 9:12 PM
Hey! Thanks so much for the words on the middleman process.

I suppose I should clarify, I am looking for a DEAL! I really like that hard chrome but it's simply out of my price range.

Also please be sure if you're gonna tease with links to P7's that it's possible to get them into California... Thanks for the eye candy anyway, although plum slides are a bit fugly.

The link I provided is for a Chantilly P7 in mint condition. If you are not willing to pay the market rate, why post that you want the gun real bad but nobody wants to sell you one?

eccvets
07-22-2009, 4:12 AM
I do not have completely stagnant income or anything, but my current economic position does not reasonably allow for the purchase of a one thousand dollar handgun. I will make it happen anyway.


Oi, if you can't afford it, you shouldn't buy it.

BTW: a p7 is the gun which made you say you had to buy it??? The first time I saw it I though = good lord why the hell would anyone want it. It's only saving grace is how accurate it is.

Mac Attack
07-22-2009, 5:31 AM
Forget about the P7M8, get yourself a P7M13.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y208/mmacayan/USN%20Pics/P7M13box.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y208/mmacayan/USN%20Pics/M13backstrap.jpg

Not that much thicker than a P7M8. Here are some picks of my P7's.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y208/mmacayan/USN%20Pics/P7s1.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y208/mmacayan/USN%20Pics/P7s2.jpg

Good luck on finding a P7M8 for under $1000 in Ca. The lowest price I paid for a P7PSP was $400, and the lowest I paid for a P7M8 and P7M13 was $800 each. But that was back in GA where they are readily available at many gun shops.

J-cat
07-22-2009, 5:58 AM
It's only saving grace is how accurate it is.

It's not all that accurate.

locosway
07-22-2009, 8:00 AM
It's not all that accurate.

For the type of gun it is, it's one of the best.

J-cat
07-22-2009, 8:38 AM
No it isn't. I've benchrested one, shot a bunch of different ammo, handloaded for it extensively, and can say with absolute confidence that it is no more accurate than a Beretta 92.

eccvets
07-22-2009, 11:10 AM
No it isn't. I've benchrested one, shot a bunch of different ammo, handloaded for it extensively, and can say with absolute confidence that it is no more accurate than a Beretta 92.


Really? From I've heard, they are suppose to be able to shoot the nuts off a fly at 25 yards. This is the first I have heard that they arn't all that and a bag of chips.

Mac Attack
07-22-2009, 11:50 AM
I found my P7's to be extremely accurate and second only to the Sig 210 but not that far behind.

VegasND
07-22-2009, 12:22 PM
If you can get mom/dad or a child living out of CA to help, CDNN has PSPs for $649.99

(Do you have a friend that could have mom/dad/child get one for them? They could sell it to you later...)


I'm hoping that doesn't violate some crazy CA conspiracy law.:TFH:

BigRich
07-22-2009, 1:20 PM
I am with J-cat on this topic. My two P7M8s are accurate for a belly gun but are easily beaten by really accurate pistols. I have a P210, an HK P9s Target, an S&W 945 and a Sig P226 X-Five Competition to compare it to. I have shot them extensively and the P7M8 is not in the same league by any measure. I have an old Luger with a freckled barrel and horrible sights that will actually beat it badly. The P7M8 is an interesting gun to shoot but has it's shortcomings.

sportsman
07-22-2009, 4:29 PM
I know someone that has a box set two guns never fired what is the set worth

J-cat
07-22-2009, 8:58 PM
Really? From I've heard, they are suppose to be able to shoot the nuts off a fly at 25 yards. This is the first I have heard that they arn't all that and a bag of chips.

You have heard. I have owned. Read this:

http://www.gunfaqs.org/P7FAQ/Magazine_Articles/Hk%20P7%20Article%20by%20Boyle%20Page%207.jpg

J-cat
07-22-2009, 9:08 PM
I am with J-cat on this topic. My two P7M8s are accurate for a belly gun but are easily beaten by really accurate pistols. I have a P210, an HK P9s Target, an S&W 945 and a Sig P226 X-Five Competition to compare it to. I have shot them extensively and the P7M8 is not in the same league by any measure. I have an old Luger with a freckled barrel and horrible sights that will actually beat it badly. The P7M8 is an interesting gun to shoot but has it's shortcomings.

In my experience, the P7 is a 1.5-2" gun at 15 yards from the bench. My P210 is a .5-.75" gun at the same distance.

The P7 is a neat gun, but has polygonal rifling. I have never been able to get match grade accuracy from a small bore poly barrel. It's not that they are poorly made, just that bullets don't like them for some weird reason. I bet if it had standard rifling like the P7M10, it would shoot more accurately.

People who claim the gun is more accurate than they are, assume that a fixed barrel is everything. Well, it isn't. If you compare P7 factory test targets to P210 factory test targets, you'll see what I mean.

BigRich
07-22-2009, 10:01 PM
"If you compare P7 factory test targets to P210 factory test targets, you'll see what I mean."
I agree with this. My P210 test target shows a group about 2 1/4" shot at 50 meters. Mine is a mid-80's fixed sight pistol and was fired by someone who has far better eyesight than I and is obviously an excellent shot. Both my P7M8 test targets are in the 2.5-3" range fired at 25 meters.

To the OP, the P7M8 platform is different enough that one should train a lot with it and not go back and forth to other platforms. One other observation is that the triggers are light but not crisp and have a substantial amount of overtravel.

zcrehan
07-22-2009, 11:58 PM
Hey guys thanks for the excellent discussion on the P7. This thread has already turned into more than I had hoped for, thanks a bunch.

Now if Mr. Lunde could just come in and post some of those swanky P7's he has... :cool2:

Shadowdrop
07-23-2009, 12:36 AM
I picked up a P7 from Pro Force for $780 last month. They had a few in excellent condition.
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff172/shadowdrop1/P7-PSP.jpg

B Strong
07-23-2009, 5:22 AM
You should try and fire one first before you plunk down your dough - not everyone wraps their head around the P7 series pistols.

I've had guys run one mag through my P7M8 and pass on the next mag.

People that are trained on the 1911 or other conventional operational system pistols may not find the P to their liking.

YMMV.


I recently bought myself a Sig Pro 2009. I did this so that I could own a reasonably priced, well made, and efficient combat pistol to have as my "go to"

I love the gun to death but I still have a void in my soul. A void that I feel can only be filled by the first handgun to ever catch my eye and make me say, wow, I want that.

I am talking about an H&K P7 type pistol. I am willing to sell some of my current guns to acquire one. Although I would rather sell my camera equipment first and will likely do that. I do not have completely stagnant income or anything, but my current economic position does not reasonably allow for the purchase of a one thousand dollar handgun. I will make it happen anyway.

I check calguns and gunbroker daily, if not more frequent, and lately I have become so frustrated with the "no sales to California" (and this is after I beg them, please sell to me, here is how you do it) STEALS on P7M8's that I have been thinking there must be a better way.

I have heard some things about folks in California using intermediary FFL's to acquire guns from brokers unfriendly to the state. Can I get some words on that?

Also, are there any other forums or websites I ought to be aware of?


Truth be told, I would prefer to purchase one of the surplus P7's (due to cost only) with the hopes of it eventually becoming a sort of project gun with a refinishing in mind. Getting too hot shouldn't be a major issue for me, I do plan to shoot the weapon though and perhaps if I do actually end up in Texas, as a CCW.



Thanks very much for taking the time to help me out with this, or just to offer your experiences, or perhaps some pictures of any P7's :)

sd1023x
07-23-2009, 7:14 AM
I don't think sig 210 is apples to apples to hk p7.

I think of HK P7 in the compact class, while beretta 92/sig 210 would be full sized. For a compact, its way accurate and if the P7 had a longer sight radius, think the groups will be comparable to sig 210.

Thoughts?

B Strong
07-23-2009, 8:24 AM
I don't think sig 210 is apples to apples to hk p7.

I think of HK P7 in the compact class, while beretta 92/sig 210 would be full sized. For a compact, its way accurate and if the P7 had a longer sight radius, think the groups will be comparable to sig 210.

Thoughts?

You're on the right track, but it's a expensive ride:

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=104214

C_1
07-23-2009, 3:47 PM
There's a NIB HK P7M8 in the classifieds section..

J-cat
07-23-2009, 8:46 PM
I don't think sig 210 is apples to apples to hk p7.

I think of HK P7 in the compact class, while beretta 92/sig 210 would be full sized. For a compact, its way accurate and if the P7 had a longer sight radius, think the groups will be comparable to sig 210.

Thoughts?

The claim was that the P7 was accurate enough to shoot the hair off a gnat's arsch. It is not. But I guess if you are talking about compacts, then it is still not as accurate as a Wilson Combat Compact CQB, for example. It is not the accuracy wonder people make it out to be. 2-3" at 25 yards is all you'll get.

sd1023x
07-23-2009, 9:25 PM
The claim was that the P7 was accurate enough to shoot the hair off a gnat's arsch. It is not. But I guess if you are talking about compacts, then it is still not as accurate as a Wilson Combat Compact CQB, for example. It is not the accuracy wonder people make it out to be. 2-3" at 25 yards is all you'll get.

That wasn't my claim. But there were alot of comparisons to pistols not in its class, think you mentioned the 92 and someone did the 210. If you can shoot a 2 inch group with a wilson combat compact cqb, good for you.

J-cat
07-23-2009, 9:34 PM
OK? But someone else did make that claim. Further, this is a claim made my many people who are stuck on the fixed barrel thing.

BigRich
07-23-2009, 9:57 PM
Interestingly, Bruce Gray used to build/tune SIG P210 pistols as well as campaign an HK longslide custom. Now I have to call him about some work.

eccvets
07-24-2009, 2:49 AM
You have heard. I have owned. Read this:

http://www.gunfaqs.org/P7FAQ/Magazine_Articles/Hk%20P7%20Article%20by%20Boyle%20Page%207.jpg

Great info, thanks for the scan!

sd1023x
07-24-2009, 9:46 AM
OK? But someone else did make that claim. Further, this is a claim made my many people who are stuck on the fixed barrel thing.

My in-law owns p7m13 and p7m8, have had alot of trigger time on both. Problem with those guns I find that hampers accuracy is short sight radius, and the pistol is oddly balance (muzzle light), which most american shooters are unaccustom too, accurate enough, but nothing to write home about. From an engineering stand point the fixed barrel should lead to accurate gun, and its accuracy seemed to come out when fired from the supported or bench situation.

How does the P7 numbers compare to this? http://www.wilsoncombat.com/magazine/cqb-elite.pdf

J-cat
07-24-2009, 8:57 PM
I see your point, but a bull barreled CQB compact is more accurate than it's full size brother. The full size CQB has a loose bushing which hinders accuracy. The bull barreled compact has a much tighter fit between the barrel and the slide at the muzzle.

Second, note the P7 groups were fired from a rest.

J-cat
07-25-2009, 9:28 PM
In the American Rifleman Guide to the M1911 Vol.II, a CQB Compact averages 1" at 25 yards form sandbags. Unfortunately, I can't find a link, but I can mail you a copy of the article if you want.

house
07-26-2009, 6:13 AM
the p7 is not the mecca of all guns... but i personally feel that it is i the end all be all ccw weapon.... it might not be that accurate but it points really nice. I am not a sniper or anything but i have no doubt that i could hit a human target with it at 50 feet, it points very naturally for me(this is due to the low bore axis i have heard).

things i like about the gun are
1.) it is very flat
2.) it is very safe to carry
3.) the gun conceals very easily
4.) mine is very reliable
5.) you can take the firing pin out on occasions when you have to leave your gun in the car

things i don like about the gun
1.) it is heavy, i wish they would have would have made a titanium model or something
2.) it is expensive
3.) they stopped making them
4.) the factory finish sucks

i have tried a bunch of guns and the p7 is my favorite, ymmv but if you find a better ccw gun let me know... because i have not found one....

Pvt. Cowboy
07-26-2009, 5:15 PM
the p7 is not the mecca of all guns... but i personally feel that it is i the end all be all ccw weapon.

Indeed, especially where carrying safety is a concern. It's flatness and stumpy slide height profile covers two of the sought after characteristics of a good CCW gun. In my experience, flat is more important than small.

Only things disappointing I've found with the P7 is the heat buildup on the roof of the trigger well and the fact that they just don't suppress very well at all.