PDA

View Full Version : Drivers license, registration, and insurance


PatriotnMore
07-19-2009, 9:00 AM
My wife just comes home and informs me that while coming down Imperial Highway, where Yorba Linda blvd, and Imperial meet, the local LE had the lane down to one, and were asking everyone for license, registration and proof of insurance.

I have never seen this before, is this something new? Also, is this legal?

I understand enforcement of laws is important, but random forced checks for paperwork rubs me the wrong way.

retired
07-19-2009, 12:31 PM
I would re read my post. If you don't want to hear other's opinions then you're in the wrong place. that is why we're here...to share experiences and thoughts.
I don't hate my gorernment. I love my state and country. I also believe that we have made promises to ALL city/county/state workers that can not be met.

Actually, you are in the wrong place. Read the rules by Kestryll at the top of this forum. This forum is strictly for leos to chat, kibitz and relax. Non leos can ask civil questions. That's it. Pretty simple, right.

As a matter of fact, when you were posting, you could have moved your gaze up to the top of the page where it says "Calguns LEOS" in Bold and read what comes after that. As I said, pretty simple.

Your opinion of law enforcement and government in general is not desired, nor accepted in this particular forum.

alex00
07-19-2009, 12:49 PM
To the OP, yes they are legal. They are the same as a DUI checkpoint. There are requirements for signs and exit points before the checkpoint. The California Office of Traffic Safety provides grants for the DUI/DL checkpoints. There is nothing forced about the checkpoint, because you can use the provided alternate route around it.

Jonathan Doe
07-19-2009, 12:56 PM
It is just like LEO's driving around and randomly checking the license plates in my opinion.

alex00
07-19-2009, 1:13 PM
It is just like LEO's driving around and randomly checking the license plates in my opinion.

Your license plate is displayed in public. Police don't need any 'reason' to check your license plate. Are you saying you don't want police recovering stolen vehicles? How is running a plate, like being stopped at a checkpoint? Or is it just the idea of any government intrusion on the public?

Corbin Dallas
07-19-2009, 2:26 PM
My wife just comes home and informs me that while coming down Imperial Highway, where Yorba Linda blvd, and Imperial meet, the local LE had the lane down to one, and were asking everyone for license, registration and proof of insurance.

I have never seen this before, is this something new? Also, is this legal?

I understand enforcement of laws is important, but random forced checks for paperwork rubs me the wrong way.


From what I understand of our laws, the preceeding falls under a serious gray area and borders illegal activity. We put up with DUI checkpoints because they have proved to decrease the number of DUI accidents involving innocent victims.

The fourth amendment right protects you from an unwarranted search. If this were the "Norm" we would see road blocks at every intersection. You would be required to hand over your papers to any government officer or agent at any time.


To the OP, if your wife was not breaking any laws such as speeding, out of date reg on the plate, tint on the windows, the local LEO's do not have a right to ask for license, reg and ins just because she was on that particular road.

Now, if you LEO's can come up with the CVC code that identifies the RIGHT of LEO's to conduct such searches, by all means send it over and I'll have some crow dinner.

Please understand, I have the utmost respect for you and your profession but I do not condone the attitude some officers have when it comes to items like this...

Yes, I know... There is "US" and then there is "everyone else".

alex00
07-19-2009, 3:02 PM
Now, if you LEO's can come up with the CVC code that identifies the RIGHT of LEO's to conduct such searches, by all means send it over and I'll have some crow dinner.

It isn't written in the vehicle code, but determined by SCOTUS decisions. Generally if the checkpoint is used to target specific public safety concerns (DUI, unlicensed drivers, etc.) they are allowed. If they are used to combat general law enforcement issues, like gangs, drugs or weapons, they are unconstitutional. Take a look at Michigan State Police v. Sitz , City of Indianapolis v. Edmond and Brown v. Texas.

ivanimal
07-19-2009, 3:05 PM
Actually, you are in the wrong place. Read the rules by Kestryll at the top of this forum. This forum is strictly for leos to chat, kibitz and relax. Non leos can ask civil questions. That's it. Pretty simple, right.

As a matter of fact, when you were posting, you could have moved your gaze up to the top of the page where it says "Calguns LEOS" in Bold and read what comes after that. As I said, pretty simple.

Your opinion of law enforcement and government in general is not desired, nor accepted in this particular forum.

Comments removed, thank you retired.

nick
07-19-2009, 4:14 PM
It isn't written in the vehicle code, but determined by SCOTUS decisions. Generally if the checkpoint is used to target specific public safety concerns (DUI, unlicensed drivers, etc.) they are allowed. If they are used to combat general law enforcement issues, like gangs, drugs or weapons, they are unconstitutional. Take a look at Michigan State Police v. Sitz , City of Indianapolis v. Edmond and Brown v. Texas.

True. What would be the point of a license and registration checkpoint? Unlicensed drivers?

alex00
07-19-2009, 4:23 PM
True. What would be the point of a license and registration checkpoint? Unlicensed drivers?

Well, many of the court cases stem from people getting arrested for drugs. The agencies were accused of taking liberties with the meaning of a checkpoint, calling them DUI or DL checkpoints and supposedly looking for drugs.

nick
07-19-2009, 4:32 PM
Do unlicensed drivers pose a similar to DUIs threat to public safety? The reason I'm asking all this is that I was under the impression (although come to think of it, I've no idea where it came from, but it had to've come from something :)) that while DUI checkpoints were ok (per Supreme court, I still don't think such checkpoints are constitutional, but I was never consulted on the matter), DL and registration checkpoints were not.

By the same logic, isn't driving while high driving under influence? As such, isn't it the same checkpoint? Or is alcohol influence was clearly separated from drugs by some case law?

Fire in the Hole
07-19-2009, 5:08 PM
I'll try to answer your four questions as specifically as I can.

1. "Do unlicensed drivers pose a similar to DUIs threat to public safety?"

A: Perhaps. They could be unlicensed due to being suspended for being a habitiutal traffic offender, lack of skill or judgement, lack of knowlege of the rules of the road. Or they just can't pass the written or driving test.

2. "By the same logic, isn't driving while high driving under influence?"

A: Yes.

3. "As such, isn't it the same checkpoint?"

A: Yes.

4. "Or is alcohol influence was clearly separated from drugs by some case law?"

A: No.

artherd
07-19-2009, 5:35 PM
There is nothing forced about the checkpoint, because you can use the provided alternate route around it.

Is using the alternate route PC for a stop?

Fire in the Hole
07-19-2009, 5:45 PM
Is using the alternate route PC for a stop?

No.

Liberty1
07-19-2009, 5:53 PM
Is using the alternate route PC for a stop?

Not supposed to be, but I've seen motor units posted to "find PC" for those who take the bypass.:(

Checkpoints should not have passed judicial scrutiny but that would require having judges who respect constitutional principles of limited government. (can I bash judges in this forum ;))

I can write plenty of tickets the old fashion legit way without casting a wide net ensnaring, delaying, and bothering all who chose to drive on the roadway their taxes paid for.

yzernie
07-19-2009, 7:31 PM
Part of the Supreme Court's decision in allowing the checkpoints was the fact that driving (in any state) not a right but a privilege granted to the citizens of that state. Their decision was mainly based on the thought of public safety out weighs a couple minutes of your time.

Do I agree with their decision, absolutely. If you were able to see the daily destruction and carnage we see every day caused by drunken, under the influence of drugs and unlicensed drivers you'd probably agree with their decision too.

Jonathan Doe
07-19-2009, 7:45 PM
Your license plate is displayed in public. Police don't need any 'reason' to check your license plate. Are you saying you don't want police recovering stolen vehicles? How is running a plate, like being stopped at a checkpoint? Or is it just the idea of any government intrusion on the public?

That is what I used to do when I was on patrol assignment. Now, some patrol cars have a device to check license plates automatically as the vehicles drive by.