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View Full Version : Law question, is there an age limit on buying bullets or primers?


frankiejoe577
07-18-2009, 7:23 PM
Do you have to be 21 to buy bullets or primers or even powder?

leitung
07-18-2009, 11:58 PM
Yes handgun bullets, magazines, primers are only allowed to be sold to 21 or older.

Yeah they got us everywhere.

ke6guj
07-19-2009, 12:05 AM
Yes handgun bullets, magazines, primers are only allowed to be sold to 21 or older.
Never seen an age requirement to purchase magazines or bullets. Powder and Primers, yes, must be 21.

edit: my bad, bullets are regulated under "ammunition" along with brass, powder, and primers.

ck867
07-19-2009, 12:09 AM
Even if there is no requirement, I'm sure most store policies won't sell unless your 21+ anyways.

Librarian
07-19-2009, 12:19 AM
Y'know, I think leitung may be incorrect: Penal Code 12316. (a) (1) Any person, corporation, or dealer who does either
of the following shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail
for a term not to exceed six months, or by a fine not to exceed one
thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both the imprisonment and fine:
(A) Sells any ammunition or reloaded ammunition to a person under
18 years of age.
(B) Sells any ammunition or reloaded ammunition designed and
intended for use in a handgun to a person under 21 years of age. As
used in this subparagraph, "ammunition" means handgun ammunition as
defined in subdivision (a) of Section 12323.

...

12323. As used in this chapter, the following definitions shall
apply:
(a) "Handgun ammunition" means ammunition principally for use in
pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed
upon the person, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 12001,
notwithstanding that the ammunition may also be used in some rifles.


Look at the structure of [Part 4, Title 2, Chapter 2.5] Section 12316. We know from 12316(a)(1)(B) that each of 12316(a) and 12316(b) are 'subdivisions', because 12323(a) is a subdivision.

Now look at (b): (b) (1) No person prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm
under Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103
of the Welfare and Institutions Code shall own, possess, or have
under his or her custody or control, any ammunition or reloaded
ammunition.
(2) For purposes of this subdivision, "ammunition" shall include,
but not be limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed
loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a
firearm with a deadly consequence.
The part of (b)(2) that might be thought to regulate under-21 purchase actually applies only to (b), while the under-21 purchase stuff is in (a).

Summary: seems to apply only to completely assembled cartridges.

ke6guj
07-19-2009, 12:25 AM
they get you federally,

18 USC 921
(a) As used in this chapter—
(17) (A) The term “ammunition” means ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellent powder designed for use in any firearm.

18 USC 922
(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—
(1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;
So, the same "pistol ammo in a rifle" arguement could arise when buying "handgun" bullets, powder, primer, or brass, so I think most sellers just default to "you must be 21".

edit: note that this only applies to licensees. Since it does not apply to non-licensed people, a non-licensee may be able to sell components without regard to those age limits. Just have make sure no other rules or regs cover it.

frankiejoe577
07-19-2009, 11:51 AM
Well, I have bought mag's already, I turn 20 in 3 months but I look like I'm older then 21 because of my stash' I did not think you had to be 21 to buy mags

Well I guess I need to find someone over 21 to come with me to buy me primers and bullets then I guess. Hopefully there will be someone outside that needs some money

MiguelS
07-19-2009, 12:09 PM
It is like alcohol for a minor. Be careful on the words you choose. I have seen too many posts from you where you should be careful on how you post.

leitung
07-19-2009, 1:08 PM
Y'know, I think leitung may be incorrect: Penal Code Look at the structure of [Part 4, Title 2, Chapter 2.5] Section 12316. We know from 12316(a)(1)(B) that each of 12316(a) and 12316(b) are 'subdivisions', because 12323(a) is a subdivision.

Now look at (b): The part of (b)(2) that might be thought to regulate under-21 purchase actually applies only to (b), while the under-21 purchase stuff is in (a).

Summary: seems to apply only to completely assembled cartridges.

Ah your right I see, it only applies to subdivision B..
So I was wrong, I didn't quite read it correctly.

nn3453
07-19-2009, 1:27 PM
It is like alcohol for a minor. Be careful on the words you choose. I have seen too many posts from you where you should be careful on how you post.

^^

If someone approached me and said that "I'm under 21, I can't legally buy ammo or primers can you do it for me" I'd ask that person to talk to their parents.

Don't get other people into trouble. If it is the law it is the law. It should be okay for your mom or dad to buy them and for you to reload under their supervision, but don't ask a random stranger to break the law for you.

Librarian
07-19-2009, 2:03 PM
Ah your right I see, it only applies to subdivision B..
So I was wrong, I didn't quite read it correctly.

But, as ke6guj points out, the Feds get us anyway!

Drat. Think locally, get screwed globally....

Spade421
07-19-2009, 2:21 PM
I don't get why a person can legally own a handgun at age 18 But they can't buy ammo for it until there 21 What a load of BS :mad:

Futurecollector
07-19-2009, 2:24 PM
I don't get why a person can legally own a handgun at age 18 But they can't buy ammo for it until there 21 What a load of BS :mad:

haha what about those of us that have
PC9's
PC4'S
.357/.38 Lever guns
.44mag Lever guns
I still have to have my mommy buy me ammo :(



Regulations are the wave of the future...

Khram
07-19-2009, 2:40 PM
haha what about those of us that have
PC9's
PC4'S
.357/.38 Lever guns
.44mag Lever guns
I still have to have my mommy buy me ammo :(



Regulations are the wave of the future...

Do you have trouble buying .22lr? And does it have to be your mommy? Is it legal for someone over 21 besides your family to purchase handgun ammo for you to use in your pc9?

Futurecollector
07-19-2009, 2:46 PM
Do you have trouble buying .22lr? And does it have to be your mommy? Is it legal for someone over 21 besides your family to purchase handgun ammo for you to use in your pc9?

Well when you go to walmart they ask you what its for, and since I ONLY have a 10/22 thats obviously what its for...

idk about that, I just have my dad go with me on the way to the range and pick some up...

Khram
07-19-2009, 3:03 PM
They don't know what you own at Walmart when you walk in,so thats why they ask you. Some Walmarts have stupid policy of IDing people though that are obviously well over 21 like my father for ammo.

If you can prove to me you own guns that take pistol calibers that you are legal to own under 21 I'd be happy to buy you all you want if you give me the cash if this is indeed legal.

I feel your pain, so dumb a delaer can sell you a PC9 but may hassle you in sellibng you the 9mm ammo to feed it.

FYI, did you know you are not allowed to buy a pistol grip only shotgun in some circumstances if you are under 21?

Spade421
07-19-2009, 3:19 PM
Ya what about people like me that own a 1911 and I'm only 19.

It's like saying you can buy a car when your 16 but you can't buy gas for until your 18 lol

haha what about those of us that have
PC9's
PC4'S
.357/.38 Lever guns
.44mag Lever guns
I still have to have my mommy buy me ammo :(



Regulations are the wave of the future...

CSDGuy
07-19-2009, 3:34 PM
I don't get why a person can legally own a handgun at age 18 But they can't buy ammo for it until there 21 What a load of BS :mad:
A person who is 18 can own a handgun and can own ammunition for it... that person just can't BUY the handgun or the ammunition....

Spade421
07-19-2009, 3:36 PM
A person who is 18 can own a handgun and can own ammunition for it... that person just can't BUY the handgun or the ammunition....

Whats the point of this rule ?

Khram
07-19-2009, 3:47 PM
Whats the point of this rule ?

Maybe so someone young has the ability to inherit guns from a deceased relative?

leitung
07-19-2009, 3:53 PM
Whats the point of this rule ?

To attempt to keep legal adults ages 18-20 from owning handguns and ammunition.

It's so stupid it's beyond comprehension.. I can't believe how age discrimination is accepted and allowed in this country, it's like being a second class citizen.

If I can vote, smoke, and die for my country, how come I can't have a drink, buy a handgun and ammunition. Not to mention the various other things I can't do like rent a car.
Regradless if I am under 21, been to the police academy, shot more rounds of pistol ammo then most people have in their life time, driven and passed EVOC, and more well rehearsed in law then some people in their 90s. Did I also mention that despite these laws, I own 3 handguns, legally, as well as pistol ammo. I carry a handgun daily at work, and have all the valid permits to do so.

But I still can't buy a handgun.. I have to have my "daddy" do it for me, because for some reason, him just being over 21 makes him more qualified and responsible then someone who has more firearms training then most people in this country.

/rant

MiguelS
07-19-2009, 4:09 PM
To attempt to keep legal adults ages 18-20 from owning handguns and ammunition.

It's so stupid it's beyond comprehension.. I can't believe how age discrimination is accepted and allowed in this country, it's like being a second class citizen.

If I can vote, smoke, and die for my country, how come I can't have a drink, buy a handgun and ammunition. Not to mention the various other things I can't do like rent a car.
Regradless if I am under 21, been to the police academy, shot more rounds of pistol ammo then most people have in their life time, driven and passed EVOC, and more well rehearsed in law then some people in their 90s. Did I also mention that despite these laws, I own 3 handguns, legally, as well as pistol ammo. I carry a handgun daily at work, and have all the valid permits to do so.

But I still can't buy a handgun.. I have to have my "daddy" do it for me, because for some reason, him just being over 21 makes him more qualified and responsible then someone who has more firearms training then most people in this country.

/rant

I don't think everyone is like you. If they were, then it would likely not be a law. Laws are created because if incidents that happen, and we all pay for it. I am not saying it is right, but I can see why a 10 year old cannot buy a gun or ammo or alcohol. Hey, some 10 year olds probably already have 4-5 years experience with a weapon, but they are a very small minority.

I think it is fair to say that laws are discriminatory in general. Perhaps amendments stating if you have served in some US capacity you would be exempt of such laws. Do military personnel carry some sort of ID all through out there lives?

Futurecollector
07-19-2009, 4:12 PM
Ya what about people like me that own a 1911 and I'm only 19.

It's like saying you can buy a car when your 16 but you can't buy gas for until your 18 lol

well yeah im 18

My Glock 21, Ruger 9mm, .44mag, and the ole .357 are hungry!!!!


also you cant buy a new car at 16 with cash from a dealer... I tried haha

frankiejoe577
07-19-2009, 6:16 PM
It is like alcohol for a minor. Be careful on the words you choose. I have seen too many posts from you where you should be careful on how you post.

It all matters how someone interperets it. What I say can go many ways.
Notice how I say I will bring someone over 21 then go on to say I will find someone who needs money


I never said I would pay someone to buy me something. That would be putting words in my mouth. :p

MarioS
07-19-2009, 9:24 PM
Yes, there is a disclaimer on most sites that stock reloading materials.

patsline74
09-02-2009, 2:24 PM
Hello all, I'm new here, but I thought I'd throw in my understanding of the law, feel free to tell me how wrong I am. A little background: I have a 1911 I inherited through my granddad, which is why I know this works.

From Ca. PC 12316:

Where ammunition or reloaded ammunition may be used in both a rifle and a handgun, it may be sold to a person who is at least 18 years of age, but less than 21 years of age, if the vendor reasonably believes that the ammunition is being acquired for use in a rifle and not a handgun.

There's the loophole that lets 18-20 buy 22lr even though they can be used in handguns. I believe that there has most likely been a rifle chambered in every common handgun caliber. If you tell the clerk you are shooting the ammunition in a rifle, they can reasonably believe it will be used in a rifle, and they will sell you handgun ammo. This was confirmed to me by a local gun store, all though neither them nor I am an expert. I've done this many times. Please let me know if this is illegal, but I haven't found anything that makes me think it is.

Librarian
09-02-2009, 5:14 PM
Hello all, I'm new here, but I thought I'd throw in my understanding of the law, feel free to tell me how wrong I am. A little background: I have a 1911 I inherited through my granddad, which is why I know this works.

From Ca. PC 12316:

Where ammunition or reloaded ammunition may be used in both a rifle and a handgun, it may be sold to a person who is at least 18 years of age, but less than 21 years of age, if the vendor reasonably believes that the ammunition is being acquired for use in a rifle and not a handgun.

There's the loophole that lets 18-20 buy 22lr even though they can be used in handguns. I believe that there has most likely been a rifle chambered in every common handgun caliber. If you tell the clerk you are shooting the ammunition in a rifle, they can reasonably believe it will be used in a rifle, and they will sell you handgun ammo. This was confirmed to me by a local gun store, all though neither them nor I am an expert. I've done this many times. Please let me know if this is illegal, but I haven't found anything that makes me think it is.

Hi, patsline74,

You're entirely correct - under 21 can buy ammunition for long guns, and lots of .22s are long guns. If you happen then to use the ammo in a .22 pistol, well, you didn't tell the seller so s/he did nothing wrong, and if you actually own a .22 long gun, neither did you.

Do note that AB 962 is going to mess with that, so if you haven't yet done so, it would be a very good idea to write a polite note opposing Mr. DeLeon's bill - see the 2nd Amendment forum for more info.

patsline74
09-02-2009, 5:21 PM
Do note that AB 962 is going to mess with that, so if you haven't yet done so, it would be a very good idea to write a polite note opposing Mr. DeLeon's bill - see the 2nd Amendment forum for more info.

Mr. Maldenado of the 15 district was contacted a few days ago.:thumbsup:

ocxpirate13
09-02-2009, 5:47 PM
Well I guess I need to find someone over 21 to come with me to buy me primers and bullets then I guess. Hopefully there will be someone outside that needs some money

This is the same guy who says he has LEO and security training, and will shoot an intruder in his home in the knee caps before hand-cuffing him. :nuts::no: