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calixt0
07-17-2009, 8:23 PM
I have 2 questions for you all.

1) I just saw a show tv show called handguns and they spent a whole episode on various 1911's. I have never seen a 1911 in 9 mm.. just 38 super and 45acp. Is there a california approved 9mm 1911?

2) I had heard a number of years ago that a 45acp at point blank range (literally muzzel against a skull) did not have the energy to piece a living human skull unless at the temple or other really thin spot. I was told that it would push the head over and pull skin off the head. I was in my late teens when I had heard this and have never heard it since. Is there any truth to such a statement. Usually I account for this type of information as garbage from a blowhard.

Nismo
07-17-2009, 8:28 PM
1 - Yes there are 9mm 1911s out there. Not sure about CA approved though sorry.

2- that is BS about not penetrating a skull (muzzle against the skin). Ive seen it.

Birdshot however, can penetrate under the skin and "spider" around the skull.

slick_711
07-17-2009, 8:32 PM
1) Kimber and Springfield both have CA approved 9mm 1911s. Kimber I believe you only have one choice (target sights) Springer I think both target and fixed 3 dot sights are on the list. Beyond that the three are fairly comparable in quality, features, and price. I have a Colt in 9mm (got it used) and love it, shoots well and is cheap practice for my two .45ACP Springers. I've shot both the Kimber and Springer 9mm models and liked both, but I'm partial to the Springers.

2) Absolutely ridiculous. Entirely possible that it happened on one occasion. There are lots of documented incidents of various calibers performing oddly. As an average though, .45ACP would not even stutter to penetrate the skull.

frankiejoe577
07-17-2009, 9:15 PM
I have 2 questions for you all.

2) I had heard a number of years ago that a 45acp at point blank range (literally muzzel against a skull) did not have the energy to piece a living human skull unless at the temple or other really thin spot. I was told that it would push the head over and pull skin off the head. I was in my late teens when I had heard this and have never heard it since. Is there any truth to such a statement. Usually I account for this type of information as garbage from a blowhard.

Sorry we do not help people commit suicide or murder. In self defence you would not be close enough to put a gun to someones head point blank

RolinThundr
07-17-2009, 9:27 PM
1911 Springfield Armory options straight from the CA register:


PI9134L (ambi safety) / Stainless Steel, Pistol, 5", 9mm
PI9134L / Stainless Steel, Pistol, 5", 9mm
1911 EMP Compact PI9209L / Alloy, Steel, Pistol, 3.1", 9mm
PX9505L / Alloy, Stainless Steel, Pistol, 3.5", 9mm
PX9130L (ambi safety) / Stainless Steel, Pistol, 5", 9mm
PX9130L / Stainless Steel, Pistol, 5", 9mm

Variable2147
07-17-2009, 11:05 PM
Absolutely ridiculous. Entirely possible that it happened on one occasion. There are lots of documented incidents of various calibers performing oddly. As an average though, .45ACP would not even stutter to penetrate the skull.

also, usually if you put muzzle to skin, the gas will kill you. a blank .22lr to the temple will blow you skull into pieces. also, a blank to a non-vital area can force the gases into your bloodstream and you can die very quickly.

cousinkix1953
07-17-2009, 11:13 PM
1 - Yes there are 9mm 1911s out there. Not sure about CA approved though sorry.

2- that is BS about not penetrating a skull (muzzle against the skin). Ive seen it.

Birdshot however, can penetrate under the skin and "spider" around the skull.
Colt exported thousands of them to our NATO allies in Europe. There never was much of a market for them here. I suppose that a good gunsmith could get a 9mm barrel and parts for a 1911 pistol. They used the 38 Super magazines in them if I remember right...

Legasat
07-17-2009, 11:19 PM
also, usually if you put muzzle to skin, the gas will kill you. a blank .22lr to the temple will blow you skull into pieces. also, a blank to a non-vital area can force the gases into your bloodstream and you can die very quickly.

Just ask Jon-Erik Hexum.

During a scene where he is lying in bed, in between takes, he was playing around with a .44 Magnum revolver that was on-set for use as a blank-firing weapon. Shortly after 5:15 p.m. he put the pistol (according to witnesses, it was loaded with three empty cartridges and two blanks) up to his right temple. As he pulled the trigger he smiled, and supposedly said, "Let's see if I got myself with this one." He was apparently unaware that at close range, a blank can cause great damage. The explosion drove a quarter-sized piece of his skull far into his brain. The paper wadding of the straight-walled blank cartridge went straight into his temple and forced a bone chip to lodge in his brain.

aplinker
07-18-2009, 12:01 AM
Both Kimber and Springfield have 1911 9mm's

If you really want a treat, get a commander. That's where the 9mm shines in the 1911. It's delicious.

Any .38 Super 1911 has the same bolt face as a 9mm, so just a barrel swap (mags are a good idea, too) will do.


(I LOVE 9mm 1911's)

Colt
07-18-2009, 5:53 PM
+1 on 9mm Commanders. Awesome!

bohoki
07-18-2009, 6:03 PM
Just ask Jon-Erik Hexum.

During a scene where he is lying in bed, in between takes, he was playing around with a .44 Magnum revolver that was on-set for use as a blank-firing weapon. Shortly after 5:15 p.m. he put the pistol (according to witnesses, it was loaded with three empty cartridges and two blanks) up to his right temple. As he pulled the trigger he smiled, and supposedly said, "Let's see if I got myself with this one." He was apparently unaware that at close range, a blank can cause great damage. The explosion drove a quarter-sized piece of his skull far into his brain. The paper wadding of the straight-walled blank cartridge went straight into his temple and forced a bone chip to lodge in his brain.

so sad Mm-o_7AGJRQ
he was in my favorite show

MrBrent
07-18-2009, 6:12 PM
I have a EMP and I really like it. It came with night sights as well!
http://gkosin.smugmug.com/photos/480420814_NipaS-M-1.jpg

sammy
07-18-2009, 6:29 PM
I have a EMP and I really like it. It came with night sights as well!
http://gkosin.smugmug.com/photos/480420814_NipaS-M-1.jpg

Thread jack:

That EMP looks like the cat's meow. How does it perform in accuracy and reliability?

MrBrent
07-18-2009, 6:41 PM
Accuracy is great! I have had some feed issues with hollow points that got much better with about 500 down the pipe. I sent to SA and they did a polish job on the feed ramp and breach face. I have yet to go to the range to check it out. Others have had same issues and ran perfect after its trip to SA. Trigger is great with a good reset. I can shoot 1.75 groups at 10 yards if I put my mind to it.

Str8shutr
07-18-2009, 6:44 PM
I don't really see the point of a 1911 in 9mm. It seems to me like there are soooo many choices in 9mm handguns that if i was going to go with a 1911 I would get a 45acp....Just me

BigDogatPlay
07-18-2009, 7:06 PM
In self defence you would not be close enough to put a gun to someones head point blank

Not necessarily. You hope that in a self defense situation you aren't that close. But many self defense situations start at an extremely range. In any kind of a gun takeaway that distance is only going to get closer.

I've been involved twice in violent encounters where officers ended up in ground combatives with suspects and muzzle contact was the end result. One was particularly telling where the officer lost his sidearm in the fight. When we found him he was on the ground with the suspect in a scissor and his BUG stuck firmly into the bad guys cheekbone at an upward angle.

Having said all that, while bullets do stranges things sometimes just about anything .380 or greater should get through a skull in a contact situation.

sp_train_77
07-18-2009, 7:42 PM
I remember having Colt-manufactured 9mm 1911's when I worked in a gun shop back in the 70's.

Now here is a question, why not just convert a 1911 45 to 9mm. Different barrel, bushing, springs, magazine. Those were the only differences on the Colt issued guns.

frankiejoe577
07-18-2009, 8:27 PM
Not necessarily. You hope that in a self defense situation you aren't that close. But many self defense situations start at an extremely range. In any kind of a gun takeaway that distance is only going to get closer.

I've been involved twice in violent encounters where officers ended up in ground combatives with suspects and muzzle contact was the end result. One was particularly telling where the officer lost his sidearm in the fight. When we found him he was on the ground with the suspect in a scissor and his BUG stuck firmly into the bad guys cheekbone at an upward angle.

Having said all that, while bullets do stranges things sometimes just about anything .380 or greater should get through a skull in a contact situation.

Yeah but your not going to have the gun at there head, you really think that self defence is going to hold up in court if you shoot a person in the head point blank. Show me a case that someone got away with shooting someone point blank in the head for self defence.