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dave1947
07-17-2009, 8:37 AM
The man charged with diturbing the peace for open carrying at a park near an Obama rally in PA was found not guitly on all charges. afterward the judge said" you all idiots" refering to open carriers.

evan69
07-17-2009, 8:42 AM
I think the idiocy lies in the laws, not the people. Although, you walk outside with that gun on your belt, and you assume that kind of risk.

Untamed1972
07-17-2009, 9:37 AM
The man charged with diturbing the peace for open carrying at a park near an Obama rally in PA was found not guitly on all charges. afterward the judge said" you all idiots" refering to open carriers.

So the judge called him an idiot for doing something that is completely legal in that state?

Sig226
07-17-2009, 9:54 AM
The man charged with diturbing the peace for open carrying at a park near an Obama rally in PA was found not guitly on all charges. afterward the judge said" you all idiots" refering to open carriers.

link, ref? More info?

M198
07-17-2009, 10:33 AM
The man charged with diturbing the peace for open carrying at a park near an Obama rally in PA was found not guitly on all charges. afterward the judge said" you all idiots" refering to open carriers.

While judges hold near tyrannical power inside the court room, maybe this guy should wait outside the court house and return the insults when the judge leaves. I wonder if you could get arrested for that.

Fjold
07-17-2009, 11:38 AM
Verdict In: Man With Gun At Obama Rally Not Guilty


BEAVER, Pa. -- A Beaver County man accused of bringing his gun and Bible to a campaign rally for President Barack Obama to protest contentious comments by the then-candidate has been found not guilty.

The jury found John Noble, 51, of Industry, not guilty of a misdemeanor count of disrupting a meeting. A judge then found him not guilty of a summary offense of disorderly conduct.

The judge said it was a foolish act when Noble took the gun to a campaign rally in August at Irvine Park, but he said the act did not rise to the level of a crime.

Noble said he wore his 9mm semiautomatic handgun on a holster and carried a Bible to the rally in Beaver to protest Obama's remark that Americans who feel left out by the system are clinging to guns and religion. Some Obama opponents believe he was referring to conservative working-class Republicans.

On Wednesday, dozens of people carried weapons into the Beaver County Courthouse in a show of support for Noble.

With hundreds of people at the rally, one man told the court that Noble stuck out.

"I saw him walking and saw the gun and didn't think that was right," said the man who alerted police, John Atkinson.

Noble was apprehended by officers from Beaver Borough Police Department, Beaver County Sheriff's Office and Pennsylvania State Police and Secret Service agents after he allegedly breached the secured perimeter of the political rally.

Police said Noble wanted to be disruptive. They said Noble posted on the Pa. Firearm Owners Association Web site days before the rally, "Bring your gun and Bible to Beaver tonight. Let's show Obama how we hug our bibles and guns."

A criminal complaint said the weapon "created a public alarm." State police charged Noble with disorderly conduct and disrupting a public meeting.

Noble told Channel 11 off camera that he always carries a gun, as do his three daughters. He said as an American, it's his right.

"He did nothing wrong. Everything was peaceful. He displayed it the entire time he had it," said supporter Jo Lynn Conti.

Federal authorities did not charge Noble, because he didn't pass through metal detectors.

Theseus
07-17-2009, 11:51 AM
Can judges really get away with calling people names? I would think that is against the law as well, maybe not a serious crime, but a good old tort is enough to seek monetary damages.

These judges in PA have now twice made such comments, the last one over the "soccer mom" who lost her CCW for OC'ing during a hot PA day at a soccer game of her daughters.

Aldemar
07-17-2009, 11:55 AM
On Wednesday, dozens of people carried weapons into the Beaver County Courthouse in a show of support for Noble.:eek:

INTO THE COURTHOUSE????

Turbinator
07-17-2009, 12:22 PM
Nice that no charges were filed, but it seems it was a bad arrest to begin with.

Turby

Flying Bones
07-17-2009, 12:59 PM
Goodbye sweet America.

GaryV
07-17-2009, 1:05 PM
Nice that no charges were filed, but it seems it was a bad arrest to begin with.

Turby

Charges were filed. He went to trial on those charges and was found not guilty by a jury.

Liberty1
07-17-2009, 1:10 PM
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum66/28609.html

News articles:
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum66/28607.html

The origional year old thread:
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum46/15537.html

dave1947
07-17-2009, 1:59 PM
http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/31196-mtn-jack-arrested-oc-near-obama-rally-site-page-218.htmlOriginally Posted by Paradigm View Post

hiflyrf22 (11:41:36 AM): They're all out now
hiflyrf22 (11:41:41 AM): mrs mtn jack is crying
hiflyrf22 (11:41:56 AM): judge called us all stupid idiots
hiflyrf22 (11:42:53 AM): stupid idiots for OCing
hiflyrf22 (11:42:55 AM): i assume
hiflyrf22 (11:42:59 AM): no confirmation

Theseus
07-17-2009, 6:56 PM
http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/31196-mtn-jack-arrested-oc-near-obama-rally-site-page-218.html (http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/31196-mtn-jack-arrested-oc-near-obama-rally-site-page-218.html)

Originally Posted by Paradigm View Post

hiflyrf22 (11:41:36 AM): They're all out now
hiflyrf22 (11:41:41 AM): mrs mtn jack is crying
hiflyrf22 (11:41:56 AM): judge called us all stupid idiots
hiflyrf22 (11:42:53 AM): stupid idiots for OCing
hiflyrf22 (11:42:55 AM): i assume
hiflyrf22 (11:42:59 AM): no confirmation

Fixed the link.

hoffmang
07-17-2009, 6:59 PM
Can judges really get away with calling people names?
Judges have first amendment rights too.

-Gene

7x57
07-17-2009, 7:28 PM
Judges have first amendment rights too.


While acting in an official capacity?

7x57

Theseus
07-17-2009, 7:29 PM
Judges have first amendment rights too.

-Gene

In a court I would not have the same right to call him an idiot, so I don't see why he should have the power and authority to call me one.

hoffmang
07-17-2009, 7:39 PM
While acting in an official capacity?


Yes. Now he certainly has certain ethical and professional proscriptions - see what happened to Judge Konzinski over his inadvertent sharing of a private fileserver over HTTP, but a Judge has pretty free reign to say what he wants that isn't controlled by the law/stare decisis.

-Gene

hoffmang
07-17-2009, 7:40 PM
In a court I would not have the same right to call him an idiot, so I don't see why he should have the power and authority to call me one.

In court, you can not. Outside of his courtroom, you can call him most anything you like that isn't actually malicious as that legal term is defined.

-Gene

M198
07-17-2009, 8:14 PM
:eek:

INTO THE COURTHOUSE????

You used to be able to do that in CA, before some evil, left-wing lunatic of a Governor signed a bill banning it. I believe that same Governor also used to be an actor though I'm sure it wasn't Arnie. Thank the Black Panthers and Gov. _ _ _ _ _ _ for that.

7x57
07-17-2009, 9:07 PM
Yes. Now he certainly has certain ethical and professional proscriptions - see what happened to Judge Konzinski over his inadvertent sharing of a private fileserver over HTTP, but a Judge has pretty free reign to say what he wants that isn't controlled by the law/stare decisis.


I'm not clear that a judge's freedom of expression in his own court is based on the first amendment. I rather suspect it's based on a much older idea that gets grandfathered in along with Blackstone and pre-revolutionary common law precedent that I suspect was roughly this: ain't nobody big enough to say otherwise. :-) In other words, my guess, and it *is* a guess, is that English judges pretty much always ruled their courts like a feudal fiefdom and jealously protected their prerogatives as energetically as any baron.

Besides, on a less serious note how would you even try to regulate this? You'd have to haul him into the court of another judge who values his own latitude just as much. The union protects its own. :-)

None of that is particularly an objection, mind you, I actually agree with the system as is: the problem with trying to regulate a judge's speech in court is that it is almost certain to produce some ugly freedom-threatening control loops, much like the problem with congress being able to mess with salaries. Got a judge that lets off the "wrong" people? Lots of spurious harassment charges. That's probably *why* the common-law judge has that kind of freedom--it fits best with the implicit principle that there should be no levers on judges that are not themselves breaking the law. I'm just being technical for fun and education, so if you know of hard evidence that says I'm all wet feel free to educate me.

Hmm, lots of questions down this rabbit hole it never occurred to me to ask. Is this a non-BoR Privilege or Immunity that could be asserted against a state (with P&I incorporation) that wished to deviate from the (according to my guess) common law standard of judicial freedom? Probably not, but then I have a tendency to think that the BoR is designed to regulate official behavior against a private citizen and as such have trouble with the idea that it protects the government qua government. You may take a simpler line.

7x57

N6ATF
07-17-2009, 9:28 PM
Give us a break with the epic replies, 7x57! Or is that the number of days and hours in each day we need to be able to eat, sleep, work, and read all your replies too?

:rolleyes:

artherd
07-17-2009, 10:18 PM
^^ Much like the principles of Diplomatic Immunity - designed to remove easy pressure points.

Liberty1
07-18-2009, 3:06 PM
pre-trial news video

amIr7FsHQ7g

post trial:

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_634184.html



Industry man not guilty of charges related to carrying firearm to Obama rally
By Jessica Turnbull, TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Saturday, July 18, 2009
About the writer
Jessica Turnbull can be reached via e-mail.

An Industry man's decision to carry a gun to a campaign rally for President Obama was "foolish and stupid, but not a crime," a judge said Friday.

Supporters, many wearing empty gun holsters, applauded in the hallway of the Beaver County Courthouse after a jury and Common Pleas Judge Harry Knafelc found John Noble, 51, not guilty on charges relating to bringing his holstered gun to an Aug. 29 rally, where he intended to pass out fliers about Second Amendment rights.

The jury deliberated eight hours, during two days, before finding Noble not guilty of disrupting meetings and processions. Knafelc then acquitted him of a disorderly conduct charge.

"Wearing a weapon (to a presidential rally) was certainly inappropriate and foolish, even with the best intentions," Knafelc said. "But not every foolish act is a crime."

Noble said he was silently protesting comments made by the-then presidential candidate when he wore the pistol, across the street from the rally. He said he was mirroring Obama's statement that bitter Pennsylvanians "cling to their religions and guns."

Noble's wife Janet clutched a thick Bible as the verdicts were read.

"God is good, and our Constitution still stands," she said afterward.

Supporters prayed together in a room before leaving the courthouse, most pausing to retrieve guns from lockers.

Noble said outside the courthouse that he brought nine fliers to distribute at the August rally.

"I was gonna help nine people. And now look at what happened. Of the thousands and thousands of positive responses I've got, I've got one hate mail. One," he said. "It was all worth it."

His friend, Larry Musgrave of Economy, joked that Noble should treat the group to lunch.

Musgrave said Noble helped Pennsylvanians who carry guns by putting the spotlight on open-carry laws.

"He took us out of the closet," he said.

Mike Killmeyer of Turtle Creek said he came to support Noble because a ruling against Noble would hurt people who carry weapons, which is legal in Pennsylvania. Gun owners carry weapons for various reasons, he said, and this case highlighted gun rights.

"It can open the door to anyone to call and have someone charged for open-carry," he said.

Tom Williams of Port Allegany in McKean County drove about three hours each day to attend the trial that began Wednesday, even though he had never met Noble. He wanted to show support for a fellow gun owner.

"He's fighting for my rights, so the least I can do is come," Williams said.

Greg Rotz of Chambersburg said a lack of understanding about the law led to the case because many people, including some police officers, might not know that people can openly carry a gun.

Rotz fought his own legal battle last year when his concealed-carry license was revoked because he brought his gun to a polling place in Franklin County. His license later was restored.

"This decision won't set a precedent for future cases, but it may help with education," he said.

Rotz, who works with PA Open Carry, an advocacy group for gun rights, said the group helped raise enough money to pay Noble's attorney.