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View Full Version : Why choose a bolt action rifle over a M1A


battleship
07-17-2009, 12:16 AM
I had a chance to shoot a M1A at the chabot range a couple of weeks back, after shooting ten rounds it dawned on me that this is not a bolt action gun, (Me - not to familure with rifles)..

So it got me thinking why purchase a bolt action 308 when you can have the ease of a semi auto precision rifle such as the tried and tested M1A.

You get all the accuracy of a bolt action but with semi auto caperbility like in a AR 10,

Well im planning on getting an M1A before my first bolt action rifle, after that do i really need a bolt action to follow when i have an M1A.

What are the pros and cons between them both, beyond upping the caliber to monster sized rounds.

Scratch705
07-17-2009, 12:28 AM
a bolt gun will be more precise than the m1a.

and i don't have enough experience with either to give you more info... heh

aplinker
07-17-2009, 12:35 AM
The M1A is by no means a precision rifle.

M1A's are 2-3MOA guns, at best.

A good bolt gun will print <1MOA groups.

Things get worse as you move to distance with the M1A.

I had a chance to shoot a M1A at the chabot range a couple of weeks back, after shooting ten rounds it dawned on me that this is not a bolt action gun, (Me - not to familure with rifles)..

So it got me thinking why purchase a bolt action 308 when you can have the ease of a semi auto precision rifle such as the tried and tested M1A.

You get all the accuracy of a bolt action but with semi auto caperbility like in a AR 10,

Well im planning on getting an M1A before my first bolt action rifle, after that do i really need a bolt action to follow when i have an M1A.

What are the pros and cons between them both, beyond upping the caliber to monster sized rounds.

BamBam-31
07-17-2009, 12:40 AM
You have to drop a lot of coin on an M1a to get it to group as well as a moderately priced bolt gun like a Remington 700. Many M1a rifles need the actions to be secured in the stocks (either via expensive aftermarket stocks like the JAE or double lugged and bedded) and the gas systems unitized before they really shine in terms of accuracy. There are just so many more moving parts in a semi-auto as compared to the simplicty of a bolt gun. And even then, the M1a is only approaching what your run-of-the-mill Remingtons, Winchesters, Savages, and Tikkas will do out of the box (sometimes sub-MOA).

That, and a scoped bolt rifle is much lighter than a scoped M1a w/ Brookfield mount, JAE stock, bipod, 20 rd. mag, etc. Of course, you get the benefit of higher capacity and rate of fire w/ the M1a....

battleship
07-17-2009, 12:55 AM
Ok, im not really talking about hitting a target out to 600 yards and beyond, with close groupings, im merely looking at the advantage the M1A would give a shooter/ infantry man in a combat situation on the battlefield with the enemy advancing. I should of worded my first question in a way that would ask why the M1A was made , whats it main design purpose on the battlefield, when one has M4's/M16's with the same semi auto action.

And with bolt action sniper rifles in the theatre, were does the M1A fit into the roll amongst the rest.

Also, how great does a match grade barrel aid in accuracy vs a standard M1A barrel.

As you must be able to tell im a newbie when it comes to rifles, and this is why im asking.

aplinker
07-17-2009, 1:23 AM
Well now I'm even more confused.

With the exception of a few elite guys, the .mil M14 (the M1A is Springfields [inferior] commercial version) is out of service. Where it does fill a role is as a designated marksman (slightly extended range, with more hit power) role. The M14 (and all 7.62x51 rifles) give the shooter more power against hardened targets (vehicles/armor) and can make hits at somewhat extended ranges (800m). This need is now/soon to be met with the Mk12, the SCAR-H, the Mk11 and M110.

So... now what? :) I'm not sure what all you're asking.

Ok, im not really talking about hitting a target out to 600 yards and beyond, with close groupings, im merely looking at the advantage the M1A would give a shooter/ infantry man in a combat situation on the battlefield with the enemy advancing. I should of worded my first question in a way that would ask why the M1A was made , whats it main design purpose on the battlefield, when one has M4's/M16's with the same semi auto action.

And with bolt action sniper rifles in the theatre, were does the M1A fit into the roll amongst the rest.

Also, how great does a match grade barrel aid in accuracy vs a standard M1A barrel.

As you must be able to tell im a newbie when it comes to rifles, and this is why im asking.

GoodEyeSniper
07-17-2009, 1:53 AM
Biggest for me is: PRICE

I think last time I checked $1400 was the cheapest m1a I found.

I still want a decent semi auto with a powerful round like .308 for the zombie apocalypse, though.

randy
07-17-2009, 2:48 AM
Buy a Saiga.

I've seen a few sub moa m1a's out of the box. The best one was a scout. One of the reasons the M1a doesn't get the accuracy is many people use surplus ammo not quality stuff.

THT
07-17-2009, 4:31 AM
My FIL has an M1A with a match barrel...it can't wave a stick at my 5R when it comes to precision shooting, even at 100 yards.

Jonathan Doe
07-17-2009, 5:09 AM
My M-1A is a 1 moa rifle at least. I only shoot iron sights at the matches, and it is capable of hitting the spotter off the targets. Never put a scope on it, so true accuracy is not known. I am certain it will be compatible with a bolt gun for sure. Of course it has a Krieger match barrel and McMillan stock with glass bedding.:cool:

Fjold
07-17-2009, 6:51 AM
The M1A is a heavy gun also.

Black Majik
07-17-2009, 7:47 AM
I concur with others, if you want a precision rifle a bolt gun is definitely the way to go. It'll spank the M1A backwards and forwards on the range.

I can really only think of three advantages favoring the M1a. Capacity, lower recoil and faster rate of fire. Detachable magazine also depending on whether you choose to utilize a BDM.

Everything else favors a bolt action rifle.

gn3hz3ku1*
07-17-2009, 7:53 AM
get both. i have both.. havent shot either but i got both :)

Black Majik
07-17-2009, 7:57 AM
get both. i have both.. havent shot either but i got both :)

LOL. Funny reply.:)

chickenfried
07-17-2009, 8:26 AM
I can't argue with the points brought up. But I love my m1a, I only have a slight crush on my tikka lite.

Suvorov
07-17-2009, 8:41 AM
Apples and Oranges in a lot of ways. If you want pure precision, a bolt gun is the way to go. If you want good precision, but the extra firepower that a semi-auto provides and are willing to drop about $2000, then go with a National Match M1A. If you want decent accuracy in a hard hitting 7.62 semi-auto battle rifle, then go with a stock M1A.

Like others have mentioned, you can have yourself a TOP OF THE LINE, precision bolt rifle and scope for about the money you will spend on a NM M1A alone.

That said, if I had to choose between my NM M1A and my Remington 700PSS, for an all around best rifle to have, I'd choose my Springer hands down. ;)

Barney Gumble
07-17-2009, 10:36 AM
For pure precision shooting it's just easier to shoot sub-moa groups with a bolt-gun. The M14 has so many moving parts, it takes a lot of work, tuning and good parts selection to get it to shoot sub-moa at distance. A quality bolt-gun will shoot sub-moa right off the shelf (with match ammo of course).

However as someone else said, the M14 is serving well in the designated marksman role in Iraq and Afghanistan.

popeye4
07-17-2009, 10:38 AM
Another consideration of the M14 type match rifle: you can get it conditioned, but it won't stay that way. The USMC used to have to rebuild their match M14's on an annual basis (or more frequently if indicated by performance). If you are looking for shot to shot repeatability, then you can't beat a bolt gun. You could get a Tikka or Savage and double up (or more) on the glass, and still have about $1000 left over for ammo. (I think NM M1a's are going for well over $2000 these days, no matter what the "official" price tag is).

That said, I have two M14s and shoot one in highpower service rifle competition. I built them both from stripped receivers and know them inside and out. The gun fits me well and I enjoy shooting it. Get it because of what it is and that's what you want, but it hain't no bolt gun.

Of course, you could go the CMP route and get a Garand for $600......

30Cal
07-17-2009, 11:01 AM
They're fun to shoot but expensive. Adding optics is often frustrating and makes it a pretty heavy rifle.

BamBam-31
07-17-2009, 11:08 AM
I just get the feeling the OP wants us to justify his next purchase choice by telling him the M1a would make him a better battlefield warrior than a bolt gun. :p

ETA: Most of us buy based on want, not need. If ya want it, get some! ;)

Black Majik
07-17-2009, 11:11 AM
They're fun to shoot but expensive. Adding optics is often frustrating and makes it a pretty heavy rifle.

Ha. QFT.

Cardinal Sin
07-17-2009, 11:14 AM
The M14 is a battle rifle. In the right hands it will hit the X-ring at distance. Don't mistake it with a bolt action rifle though. They have very distinct applications. Ask yourself if you are looking for precision or a capable multi purpose rifle. If you are a MOA freak then go bolt. If minute of man at 800+ yards is good enough for you then go M14. I personally desire the M14 as I was issued one in the past and will ask for one again when my unit deploys.

battleship
07-17-2009, 10:46 PM
Bam Bam-31, Perhaps to some extent i am asking for those reasons after all i dont have one yet, and like to get advice on any purchase i make, even if i dont agree with everyone's 2 cents, but you all answered my mixed up questions very well, to make me understand were this rifle stands.

I haven,t reached that golden point were what matters to me is how close i can group bullets in a target 6 to 8 hundred yards away, right now i enjoy a rifle that can fire multiple rounds quickly and to some extent effectively, so for me the M1A seems a real step up from the AR scene. Perhaps its the frill of semi auto power that i greatly enjoy.

When it comes down to it ,how effective does effective have to be - grouping shots at 800 yards and beyond is all amazing stuff but to me, you only need one shot to take out a target or then you become compromised to your position. So if an M1A can clear a head shot at 600 to 800 yards with out a problem doesnt that make the bolt rifle redundent to some degree. i.e the M1A does the same job but might not be as classy as the bolt.

Now before you rip me a new one for that last sentence remember im new to the rifle scene and am just trying to find my way, eventually i will get to the bolt rifle it juswt might take me a while.

Blue
07-17-2009, 10:48 PM
I'm a lousy shot, so my M1a shoots better than I do. A bolt action would be wasted on me.

Blue
07-17-2009, 10:50 PM
I haven,t reached that golden point were what matters to me is how close i can group bullets in a target 6 to 8 hundred yards away, right now i enjoy a rifle that can fire multiple rounds quickly and to some extent effectively, so for me the M1A seems a real step up from the AR scene. Perhaps its the frill of semi auto power that i greatly enjoy.



I dunno if it'll hit a head shot first shot at 600, but you could definately put the hurt on someone that far away first shot. If you aim for the head and miss, you've given up your postition already so a bolt action is probably better for that application.

battleship
07-17-2009, 10:59 PM
Good point blue, i would aim for his torso instead, then hit him again faster than i could reload with the bolt. No chance of any of that happening as im just a weekend range warrior, when the girly lets me go out to shoot.

aplinker
07-17-2009, 11:12 PM
Who, exactly, are we shooting? :D

M1A's can not make head shots at 800yds. Good ones will make center of mass at that distance, but you've essentially maxed out their range of accuracy, without taking steps to make it more accurate.

battleship
07-17-2009, 11:19 PM
Were is my list, hehe

Scratch705
07-18-2009, 12:40 AM
Bam Bam-31, Perhaps to some extent i am asking for those reasons after all i dont have one yet, and like to get advice on any purchase i make, even if i dont agree with everyone's 2 cents, but you all answered my mixed up questions very well, to make me understand were this rifle stands.

I haven,t reached that golden point were what matters to me is how close i can group bullets in a target 6 to 8 hundred yards away, right now i enjoy a rifle that can fire multiple rounds quickly and to some extent effectively, so for me the M1A seems a real step up from the AR scene. Perhaps its the frill of semi auto power that i greatly enjoy.

When it comes down to it ,how effective does effective have to be - grouping shots at 800 yards and beyond is all amazing stuff but to me, you only need one shot to take out a target or then you become compromised to your position. So if an M1A can clear a head shot at 600 to 800 yards with out a problem doesnt that make the bolt rifle redundent to some degree. i.e the M1A does the same job but might not be as classy as the bolt.

Now before you rip me a new one for that last sentence remember im new to the rifle scene and am just trying to find my way, eventually i will get to the bolt rifle it juswt might take me a while.

i'm sorta in the same position, but my "sniper" fantasy is higher than my "rambo" fantasy... hehe :p

but now that i have my bolt gun, i'm on the hunt for a cheap to shoot centerfire semi auto. kinda leaning towards a sks for the sheer fact that i don't want to pay for an AK but would like nearly the same durability since i will be running the cheapest ammo i can find for it... heh :43:

Jonathan Doe
07-18-2009, 6:39 AM
Who, exactly, are we shooting? :D

M1A's can not make head shots at 800yds. Good ones will make center of mass at that distance, but you've essentially maxed out their range of accuracy, without taking steps to make it more accurate.

Many people cannot make a headshot with bolt gun even at 300 yards, either. Maybe my bolt gun is more accurate, but I have total confidence in my M-1A.

Snapping Twig
07-18-2009, 9:09 AM
Two completely different animals that shoot the same cartridge.

The M1 can be made into a match rifle, so assuming you posess an upgraded version and both are nearly equal in accuracy, the major differences are...

The M1 is a battle rifle. Heavy, fat, long and a byotch to carry in the field for all day hunts. You can use it as a short staff in HTH combat, so that's a plus if you find yourself in combat, but this feature is a drawback for hunters that don't engage deer/pigs/etc this way.

Quality bolt rifles out of the box are MOA accurate in most cases and if they are not, they go back for service and returned accurate. Stocks are available to suit any taste - cheekpads, Euro or American stocks, kevlar, wood, etc, butt pads or steel plates. Short or long fat or skinny. Bolt guns are more readily customized. That and the fact that they are typically lighter. Good thing for all day carry.

Semi auto is great for walking in a shot if you miss the first one, bolts are lacking there, but with modern optics and practice combined with discipline and ethical hunting, you don't need to miss often.

Caliber selection.

30 carbine, .308 and 30-06 is the complete selection for the M1 family of rifles.

Everything is the caliber selection for bolt guns.

My advice - get both.

My own version is a scoped Ruger Mini 30 which I handload a 150g NBT @ 2100fps - great midrange hunting rifle. Someday I'll get the real deal, probably an M14 since I can reload .308 to suit and love magazine feed.

xibunkrlilkidsx
07-18-2009, 11:59 AM
bolt guns have more precision typically, shooter counts for a lot. and are typically cheaper for a entry model.