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View Full Version : "Pump shot gun is one of the most dangerous weapons EVER!"


lomalinda
07-16-2009, 8:50 PM
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/video?id=6918346

This Jim Hoffer is spouting the same sort of crap mentioned here in CA: ban guns throughout the country because the scum who live here can get them elsewhere.

I'm not sure that this will really be the "Patrick Purdy" of the East Coast, but it gives a very clear message to those of the non-black rifle crowd what we've been dealing with all along.

Thank goodness it wasn't a Saiga 12 with a 25-round drum!

Flying Bones
07-16-2009, 8:58 PM
Can we start our own country?

FS00008
07-16-2009, 9:04 PM
What an idiot...

bodger
07-16-2009, 9:09 PM
"Some type of automatic shotgun"....??????????????
What the hell kind of cop is this guy.

KrizB
07-16-2009, 9:10 PM
"..if the, if the Officer had not vacated that spot, he, the Officer woulda had, would have, would have been, we wouldn't be talking about him today, he would have been gone."

Not only does a Mossberg 500 pump shotgun vaporize people, it erase's all traces of their past.

bodger
07-16-2009, 9:14 PM
How 'bout that second dude, the black guy.
"This went according to all the training, and...and...God's will....."

Training? I'll bet if those cops had received proper training, or had deployed it they did receive it, they wouldn't have been shot up like that.
And, since when is it God's will that five cops get shot. Maybe he meant God's will that they survived.
Maybe God willed that automatic shottie to do its evil best.
What a cluster f$$k.
Hope the cops are okay and their retarded leaders get a clue.

Roadrunner
07-16-2009, 9:14 PM
LOL that's way too funny. Now my pump action shotgun is deadlier than a machinegun. If they hate 00 buck in my shotgun, they'd really hate that I have two slugs first followed by three rounds of 00 buck.

ScottB
07-16-2009, 9:17 PM
Drama queens

"Its a favorite of big game hunters and safari guides because, believe it or not, it will stop a charging rhino"


Whoa ...

gadjeep
07-16-2009, 9:25 PM
Drama queens

"Its a favorite of big game hunters and safari guides because, believe it or not, it will stop a charging rhino"


Whoa ...



Or a charging quail. Pretty versatile really.

GoodEyeSniper
07-16-2009, 9:27 PM
If you can't take down a charging quail in the first shot....

it's already too late.

KrizB
07-16-2009, 9:35 PM
Don't forget the high capacity shot shells, each one is like shooting multiple times.

Can I guess the proposed future law?
Any large diameter shot shell load (.24 & up) that fires more then one pellet is considered an "Automaticshotgun Burst". :rolleyes:

Roadrunner
07-16-2009, 9:39 PM
Don't forget the high capacity shot shells, each one is like shooting multiple times.

Can I guess the proposed future law?
Any large diameter shot shell load (.24 & up) that fires more then one pellet is considered an "Automaticshotgun Burst". :rolleyes:

Yep, 9 .32 caliber rounds coming out of a shotgun with one trigger pull has to be a machinegun.....according to Jersey City.

ScottB
07-16-2009, 9:49 PM
Are you kidding? It's Jersey! They sent the doughnut eating Walrus Response Team to the scene. Their lucky if they can get out of the car.

Take a look at the police chief.

Pretty much proves it.

darkiceman56
07-16-2009, 9:54 PM
Please correct me if i'm wrong, in the "follow up" video () (http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/video?id=6918346)that detailed the pump action shotgun, isn't it comparing the police issued shotgun seem to have a shorter barrel length compared to that of the suspects, much like comparing apples to oranges?

And also to say that the gun's only purpose is to kill humans is just a slippery slope imo :mad:.

Axewound
07-16-2009, 9:57 PM
Yep, 9 .32 caliber rounds coming out of a shotgun with one trigger pull has to be a machinegun.....according to Jersey City.

oh god does that mean we can only shoot slugs...darn

lomalinda
07-16-2009, 10:12 PM
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/video?id=6918346

Oh, do they?

I was recently in Houston, where several cops told me that they are in favor of CCWs and think that in general, when people can defend themselves, they're better off.

LOL @ Jim Hoffer and the cheerleading he's doing for the anti-gun crowd. There's nothing but sensationalized bull**** on that "newscast."

gcvt
07-16-2009, 10:16 PM
LOL, in one of those vids they said you can fire a pump action shot faster than a semi-auto rifle??

HondaMasterTech
07-16-2009, 10:24 PM
A lack of self management skills is the most dangerous threat to public safety.

Turo
07-16-2009, 10:34 PM
"Five rounds in about two, two and a half seconds"

"That, that's faster than some semi-automatic guns!"

"Much faster, and it's more reliable."

Excuse me if I'm ignorant, but how long does it take for the bolt of a semi-automatic shotgun to come back and load the next shell???
A quarter second? a tenth?

These people are idiots, and that "weapons expert" they talked to should be stripped of his title and slapped across the face.

Oh, and by the way, I think BUCK shot was made to take down BUCKs, what do you say?

PS. Remember, you can take down a charging rhino with one shot of 00Buck.
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes:

KrizB
07-16-2009, 10:42 PM
LOL, in one of those vids they said you can fire a pump action shot faster than a semi-auto rifle??

shhh, it's a secret loophole
Thats why people with box mag pumps don't talk about them ;)

Five rounds in 2.5 seconds is like 120 rounds per minute, I think most semi autos are somewhere around 500-700 RPM

Sleepy1988
07-16-2009, 10:43 PM
Please correct me if i'm wrong, in the "follow up" video () (http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/video?id=6918346)that detailed the pump action shotgun, isn't it comparing the police issued shotgun seem to have a shorter barrel length compared to that of the suspects, much like comparing apples to oranges?

And also to say that the gun's only purpose is to kill humans is just a slippery slope imo :mad:.

They're just showing their true colors. They want all firearms banned from private ownership, period.

aplinker
07-16-2009, 10:52 PM
It's also the gun in EVERY patrol car in the country. :rolleyes:

I love how they gloss over the fact the gun was stolen. BAN THEM! That will keep the criminals away! OH wait, they just stole one anyways. Oops!

Cato
07-16-2009, 11:16 PM
I don't like it when police officers support gun control; I want them to support the Constitution.

taloft
07-16-2009, 11:53 PM
That was painful to watch, stop rambling and get to the point already! If a bad guy can get the jump on five officers who are staking out a car used in a violent armed robbery, then something is seriously wrong with their training or we are getting a poor version of what really happened. I feel bad for the cops, and truly wish them the best. It isn't their fault the brass is a bunch of anti gun morons. Sheesh, how'd the Mayor get elected with such speaking skills? You'd think they would send him to toast masters at the least.

While shotguns can be very effective, they are not the uber weapon these clowns are making them out to be. Comparing them to a semi auto is just stupid. Saying that there only purpose is to kill humans is also a red herring. Even if we concede that the only useful purpose of a tactical pump action shotgun is to kill humans, one must acknowledge that the vast majority of people killed with tactical pumps are criminals being shot by Police, or law abiding home owners. Notice they left out that tidbit. Nice anti gun drum banging you douche bags.:mad:

M198
07-17-2009, 12:05 AM
My mossberg 500 is meant for one thing, killing Zombies!

cousinkix1953
07-17-2009, 12:05 AM
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/video?id=6918346

This Jim Hoffer is spouting the same sort of crap mentioned here in CA: ban guns throughout the country because the scum who live here can get them elsewhere.

I'm not sure that this will really be the "Patrick Purdy" of the East Coast, but it gives a very clear message to those of the non-black rifle crowd what we've been dealing with all along.

Thank goodness it wasn't a Saiga 12 with a 25-round drum!
It's about time that they get a wake up call! Sarah Brady told us that plastic GLOCK pistols were a terrorist's favorite handgun; because you can smuggle them aboard planes. Never mind that the critical internal parts, magazines and ammo were still made of metal, that will set off the alarms.

Our common bolt action hunting rifles with scopes on them are sniper's rifles. Now the antis will have to invent a nickname for millions of Mossberg 500s and Remington 870s and they'll start talking about banning hunting weapons. i can't wait to hear what threy say about my old Winchester model 1897, which can be fired semi-auto if I hold down the trigger and crank the forearm...

jumbopanda
07-17-2009, 12:16 AM
Wow...there was almost nothing factual about that entire segment.

cousinkix1953
07-17-2009, 12:18 AM
New Jersey is about to enact a "one handgun a month" law, that is worse than the one here in the PRK. A FFL told Tom Gresham's "Gun Talk" radio show, that not even the stores will be allowed to buy more than a single handgun during the 30 day period. Importing them from other out-of-state dealers will be illegal too. They can sell just a single handgun and buy another to to replace the stock.

What a mess if even half true! It sounds like these morons picked out the wrong kind of firearms as well...

gcvt
07-17-2009, 12:35 AM
Mossberg should sue. That BS is beyond ridiculous.

Sleepy1988
07-17-2009, 12:51 AM
New Jersey is about to enact a "one handgun a month" law, that is worse than the one here in the PRK. A FFL told Tom Gresham's "Gun Talk" radio show, that not even the stores will be allowed to buy more than a single handgun during the 30 day period. Importing them from other out-of-state dealers will be illegal too. They can sell just a single handgun and buy another to to replace the stock.

What a mess if even half true! It sounds like these morons picked out the wrong kind of firearms as well...

:mad:

WTF?!

Maestro Pistolero
07-17-2009, 1:06 AM
LOL, in one of those vids they said you can fire a pump action shot faster than a semi-auto rifle??
I guess my Benelli M1 Super 90 isn't as dangerous as my Mossberg.

CalNRA
07-17-2009, 2:12 AM
all the tin cans I have shot with my 870 agree, pump guns are very dangerous.

aileron
07-17-2009, 5:11 AM
PS. Remember, you can take down a charging rhino with one shot of 00Buck.


He needs to put his money where his mouth is on that one. Stand him in front of a charging rhino with buck shot, and see what happens. My guess is that it will make it very angry.

I don't believe you will make a rhino angry by shooting it with buck... and I don't believe his idea either.... So I am in uncharted territory here. That's why I agree with you on the idea of him proving it... so we need to get a movement going demanding he himself prove that 00 buck out of a shotty will take down a rhino.

I'm willing to keep an open mind till the facts come in. ;)

liketoshoot
07-17-2009, 5:24 AM
I only have one thing to say; MAJOR FUD!

bodger
07-17-2009, 6:48 AM
Mossberg should sue. That BS is beyond ridiculous.

That's an interesting point. I don't think I have ever seen a company spokesperson from a gun manufacturer come forward when this kind of crap happens. Anybody know of a case where they have?

I'm just glad this guy wasn't using an AR.

And not for nuthin', I hope the cops that got hurt get better. But the more I read about this, the more it is easy to see that the Jersey City cops bungled this whole thing from start to finish.The only thing they did right was kill the perps and save the taxpayers a lot of money.

Mulay El Raisuli
07-17-2009, 7:02 AM
OMG!!!! I'll bet it had "a shoulder thing that goes up" too!

The Raisuli

Roadrunner
07-17-2009, 7:08 AM
My mossberg 500 is meant for one thing, killing Zombies!

vyesNstdG04

shark92651
07-17-2009, 7:17 AM
wow, just wow...

mblat
07-17-2009, 7:29 AM
LOL that's way too funny. Now my pump action shotgun is deadlier than a machinegun. If they hate 00 buck in my shotgun, they'd really hate that I have two slugs first followed by three rounds of 00 buck.

Fanny part is that in that particular invasion scenario (multiple intruders coming into your house) it may be true.

Spearo
07-17-2009, 7:45 AM
You gotta realize the effect of this.
All the sheep that are watching this, do not know what a pump action shotgun is.
So they will believe it when these people spread FUD.
Later when legislation comes about to ban pump action shotguns... all the sheep nod yes.

Same retards that have an strong opinion about something, but really have no education on the subject.
Yet they will sit there and argue you to death.

Legasat
07-17-2009, 8:18 AM
Sheeple will believe anything if they see it enough times...

Glock22Fan
07-17-2009, 8:25 AM
LOL, in one of those vids they said you can fire a pump action shot faster than a semi-auto rifle??

There was a trick shooter for Winchester who could shoot a pump as fast as a semi-auto.

He would throw up to 9 clay pidgeons into the air and hit them all, one by one, before they hit the ground.

bodger
07-17-2009, 8:26 AM
You gotta realize the effect of this.
All the sheep that are watching this, do not know what a pump action shotgun is.
So they will believe it when these people spread FUD.
Later when legislation comes about to ban pump action shotguns... all the sheep nod yes.

Same retards that have an strong opinion about something, but really have no education on the subject.
Yet they will sit there and argue you to death.

Australia. Port Arthur. Terrible tragedy, produced such FUD that Australia's gun laws are now basically "You can't have any".

And the ironic thing about it is, that killing spree might have ended earlier by a gas station attendant who had a rifle. But per Australia's laws at the time, the ammunition was locked away in a safe. The attendant couldn't get to it in time to load and fire on the gunman before he left to go and kill more people.

ScottB
07-17-2009, 8:32 AM
I think when PETA and the Brady center release the secret video of a guy taking out 9 charging rhinos with a single blast of 00 buckshot in a high fence hunt, we're done for....


Not to make light of the warning, Australia is a lesson learned.

emilio
07-17-2009, 8:45 AM
i think choking myself for a couple minutes would have been less damaging to my brain than that news segment.

- emilio

TerryC
07-17-2009, 8:46 AM
Hmmm, I think they need to rethink there training. I don't know the exact situation but what I gather from the video is they evacuated the building and rushed the apartment knowing the suspects were armed and already took at least one shot at them. Dosen't make to much sense when basically, you are in control of the situation and surroundings area. Not sure how much thought they gave to waiting this situation out and letting it cool down some.

Maybe the NJ police and port authority should be subject to a two week waiting period before allowed to do anything.

GP3
07-17-2009, 9:17 AM
"this went according to the training that our police officers got, according to God's will."

Sounds like your training faculty and God need to be fired.

CHS
07-17-2009, 9:25 AM
And also to say that the gun's only purpose is to kill humans is just a slippery slope imo :mad:.

I agree. It's also flat out wrong.

Guns are designed to kill people, politicians, terrorists, animals, and tin cans. Not JUST people. That's what I love about guns, they're so versatile.

Sheesh people. Get it right.

M198
07-17-2009, 9:31 AM
If they knew they were armed with a shotgun, why didn't they gas them out with CS? Why weren't they carrying ballistic shields? Seems like bad tactics to me. Now if you will excuse me, I have some humans to hunt.

bodger
07-17-2009, 9:49 AM
If they knew they were armed with a shotgun, why didn't they gas them out with CS? Why weren't they carrying ballistic shields? Seems like bad tactics to me. Now if you will excuse me, I have some humans to hunt.

I need to be excused too. My Remington 870 needs its medication. It's been grumpy ever since I installed that nasty looking uber-dangerous heat shield thingy on it.
Wouldn't want it to go on a Rhino killing rampage.

GP3
07-17-2009, 9:56 AM
I couldn't stand listening to that guy any longer.

Did he really say the super shotgun would take down a rhino?!

tyrist
07-17-2009, 9:59 AM
If they knew they were armed with a shotgun, why didn't they gas them out with CS? Why weren't they carrying ballistic shields? Seems like bad tactics to me. Now if you will excuse me, I have some humans to hunt.

Shields and CS were probably not practical. The real question is did they have shoulder fired weapons themselves when they contacted the suspect.

tombinghamthegreat
07-17-2009, 9:59 AM
Pump shotguns are very common, been around since the 1800s.... Rhino slayer? What BS.

KrizB
07-17-2009, 10:03 AM
In the videos, the only ballistic shield I saw was being carried by the street/patrol Officers waiting outside the building, while the SWAT guys were running in with armor and M4gerys.

PEBKAC
07-17-2009, 10:05 AM
"Five rounds in about two, two and a half seconds"

"That, that's faster than some semi-automatic guns!"

"Much faster, and it's more reliable."
Excuse me while I go wash my eyes out with bleach...

M198
07-17-2009, 10:29 AM
Shields and CS were probably not practical. The real question is did they have shoulder fired weapons themselves when they contacted the suspect.

SWAT raided the apartment so they definitely had MP5's, AR-15, shotguns, etc.

M198
07-17-2009, 10:31 AM
Pump shotguns are very common, been around since the 1800s.... Rhino slayer? What BS.

With a good shot, some luck, and a 3" magnum slug, you COULD drop a rhino, maybe.

WHenderson
07-17-2009, 11:01 AM
"It had a stock thats retractable....the fact that he had it is illegal."

I guess my Son shouldn't have his FN TPS (tactical police shotgun) 12ga. mag. pump? It came with a collapsible stock. He loves it! Knocks down rhinos all day.
http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq335/ipipe4u/FNM0007mb.png

cousinkix1953
07-17-2009, 8:33 PM
I guess my Benelli M1 Super 90 isn't as dangerous as my Mossberg.
That ancient Winchester is the closest I've ever gotten to doing this; but not even the old 1897 is as fast as a model 50. That NJ police chief is a MORON...

cousinkix1953
07-17-2009, 8:37 PM
He needs to put his money where his mouth is on that one. Stand him in front of a charging rhino with buck shot, and see what happens. My guess is that it will make it very angry.
Which is why none of the African nations will let you shoot a rhino with anything smaller than a .375 H&H magnum any more. Even that isn't enough for some of those hunting guides...

cousinkix1953
07-17-2009, 8:49 PM
With a good shot, some luck, and a 3" magnum slug, you COULD drop a rhino, maybe.
Maybe a 12 guage slug between the eyes at point blank range? That's how they shoot cattle at a slaughterhouse. Is this nutcase police chief stupid enough to try this stunt with a rhino?

"Better to be thought of as a fool; than to open his mouth and remove all doubt."

ScottB
07-17-2009, 9:07 PM
Which is why none of the African nations will let you shoot a rhino with anything smaller than a .375 H&H magnum any more. Even that isn't enough for some of those hunting guides...

Because they know that 12 gauge pumps are too dangerous for mere mortals to handle. They are uberweapons.

I'm sure you have a shot at killing a rhino with a .22 - if you stuck the gun in its ear, but that's hardly real life is it?

M198
07-17-2009, 9:18 PM
Maybe a 12 guage slug between the eyes at point blank range? That's how they shoot cattle at a slaughterhouse. Is this nutcase police chief stupid enough to try this stunt with a rhino?

"Better to be thought of as a fool; than to open his mouth and remove all doubt."

They actually use a pneumatic rods.

Cru Jones
07-17-2009, 10:15 PM
Coincidentally... I just read a thread on here that said these uber-shotguns, the ones with retractable stocks and shell saddles, are on sale at your local Big 5 this weekend. I think the Jersey City police need to have words with Big 5.

M198
07-17-2009, 10:49 PM
Coincidentally... I just read a thread on here that said these uber-shotguns, the ones with retractable stocks and shell saddles, are on sale at your local Big 5 this weekend. I think the Jersey City police need to have words with Big 5.

From the website of a Gun store in Jersey City. Maybe we should call and give them a piece of our mind for selling man hunters.

http://www.casosguns.com/ccrimages/mosstact.jpg (http://www.casosguns.com/content/rifles_shotguns.asp)

Caso's Gun-A-Rama, Inc.
176 Danforth Avenue
Jersey City, NJ 07305
(201) 435-5099
(201) 435-4132
info@casosguns.com

hawk81
07-17-2009, 11:34 PM
These cops that are afraid of guns and afraid of protecting the public, need to find other lines of work. They have no business as being cops.

TheBundo
07-18-2009, 1:56 AM
Can we start our own country?

A few states are on the way to doing that. And Montana and North Dakota alone remain out of financial trouble, they are okay.

Unless the people are ready to kick EVERYBODY out of office, the problem will remain. It isn't just about voting record, it's about "THIS ISN"T A LIFETIME JOB" and "YOU CAN'T COUNT ON ANYTHING FROM US". Even if we kick out some good ones, we tell EVERYONE FROM NOW ON, it's EASY to get you out. Kicking EVERYONE out does that.

TheBundo
07-18-2009, 1:58 AM
"..if the, if the Officer had not vacated that spot, he, the Officer woulda had, would have, would have been, we wouldn't be talking about him today, he would have been gone."

Not only does a Mossberg 500 pump shotgun vaporize people, it erase's all traces of their past.

Yeah, like they wouldn't talk about dead cops, just ones who survive. What a "toilet paper".

Mulay El Raisuli
07-18-2009, 4:55 AM
Australia. Port Arthur. Terrible tragedy, produced such FUD that Australia's gun laws are now basically "You can't have any".

And the ironic thing about it is, that killing spree might have ended earlier by a gas station attendant who had a rifle. But per Australia's laws at the time, the ammunition was locked away in a safe. The attendant couldn't get to it in time to load and fire on the gunman before he left to go and kill more people.



THIS is something new to me. I had no idea that gun "control" laws had a part in raising the death toll there. I think that the full details on this should be shared with us here so that we can then share them with the fence-sitters that we all know.

Would you mind providing details & links, Bodger?

The Raisuli

Swatter911
07-18-2009, 6:24 AM
As a LEO, that chief was an embarrassment to my profession.

ZombieKiller
07-18-2009, 6:29 AM
"Somekind" of automatic shotgun.....lmao- is he really a cop?

KrizB
07-18-2009, 6:29 AM
Some more details, don't know if it was posted or not already.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h9mwIa4-cLKES55p9tMCUA0J4U4QD99GFH9O0
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/07/jersey_city_shootout_details_c.html

snippet:
JERSEY CITY, N.J. (AP) ó Two police officers critically wounded in a wild shootout in northern New Jersey never got off a shot in the confrontation, officials said Friday.

Peter Nalbach, deputy chief of the Jersey City Police Department, said suspect Hassan Shakur opened fire with a tactical shotgun from 5 feet away as soon as the door to his apartment was smashed open by a police battering ram. Buckshot and solid slugs from Shakur's 12-gauge weapon tore into officers Marc DiNardo and Michael Camacho as the door swung open, but they never fired their weapons, Nalbach said.

"He never got a chance with his shotgun ó never fired a round," Nalbach said of DiNardo, the SWAT team's designated "shotgun man."

Camacho, who was carrying a shield, and Dinardo, were hit immediately and went down. The 35-year-old officer carrying the battering ram, Frank Molina, picked up the shield, which helped absorb another blast from the Shakur's shotgun.

"If you get hit by a shotgun blast from that close, you are going down, shield or no shield," Nalbach said. "It was very tight quarters."

ZRX61
07-18-2009, 8:11 AM
"Oh, and by the way, I think BUCK shot was made to take down BUCKs, what do you say?
I say we change the name to Double Ought PerpShot :)

ZRX61
07-18-2009, 8:13 AM
As a LEO, that chief was an embarrassment to my profession.


As a Human, that chief is an embarassment to my species. ;)

ScottB
07-18-2009, 8:15 AM
Its interesting that in the hands of a professional SWAT team officer, that same weapon was useless.

I'm no LEO, I don't even play one on TV, but these SWAT officers sound like they were completely untrained and incompetently led.

Doesn't that idiot chief bear some responsibility for that?

I guess I understand why he wants to blame the shotgun.

gravedigger
07-18-2009, 8:17 AM
Can we start our own country?

No, because it will be impossible to organize enough people to do what would be absolutely necessary to make that possible.

not-fishing
07-18-2009, 8:40 AM
"If you get hit by a shotgun blast from that close, you are going down, shield or no shield," Nalbach said. "It was very tight quarters."

I know this may be junior high physics but the shotgun shooter get's hit with the same equal and opposite force. I started shooting 12 ga magnums from a pump when I was 14 and I've never "gone down". The 3" copper #2's were great for high up geese.

Sounds like the SWAT team needs to spend some time with pugil sticks learning to take a hit.

Don't they expect the bad guy on the other side to have a gun & be ready?

510shooter510
07-18-2009, 8:51 AM
I dont understand why the focus shifts to the weapon the idiot used in this attack. Why not put all the blame on him? Is he entirely to blame for his actions or are we to blame the shotgun for making him do it?
If it was a 223 they would have said "armor piercing"
If it was a handgun they would have said "high capacity 10 round magazines"
If it was a revolver they would have said "oversized caliber bullets"
If it was a 22 they would have said "concealed cop killer"
But it was a pump shotgun of all things. Oh how terrible:eek:"rhino killer"

cousinkix1953
07-18-2009, 2:26 PM
Because they know that 12 gauge pumps are too dangerous for mere mortals to handle. They are uberweapons.

I'm sure you have a shot at killing a rhino with a .22 - if you stuck the gun in its ear, but that's hardly real life is it?
Nope; but I've shot a steer between the eyes with a .22 caliber rifle. Big city mush heads have no idea just how those supermarket steaks ended up on their dinner tables...

cousinkix1953
07-18-2009, 2:28 PM
They actually use a pneumatic rods.
They used a .22 rifle when my uncle worked at the slaughterhouse in the late 60s and early 70s, so I shot a few steers in those days...

cousinkix1953
07-18-2009, 2:30 PM
From the website of a Gun store in Jersey City. Maybe we should call and give them a piece of our mind for selling man hunters.

http://www.casosguns.com/ccrimages/mosstact.jpg (http://www.casosguns.com/content/rifles_shotguns.asp)

Caso's Gun-A-Rama, Inc.
176 Danforth Avenue
Jersey City, NJ 07305
(201) 435-5099
(201) 435-4132
info@casosguns.com
We had cop killer bullets? Now we have a cop killer shotgun???

cousinkix1953
07-18-2009, 2:34 PM
Originally Posted by Turo
"Oh, and by the way, I think BUCK shot was made to take down BUCKs, what do you say?

I say we change the name to Double Ought PerpShot :)
Hey, isn't NJ one of those densely populated states; where you must hunt deer with a 12 guage slug or 00 buckshot only? No centerfire rifles (.30/06 etc) are allowed there...

cousinkix1953
07-18-2009, 2:37 PM
"If you get hit by a shotgun blast from that close, you are going down, shield or no shield," Nalbach said. "It was very tight quarters."

I know this may be junior high physics but the shotgun shooter get's hit with the same equal and opposite force. I started shooting 12 ga magnums from a pump when I was 14 and I've never "gone down". The 3" copper #2's were great for high up geese.


My brother used to load BBs and custom #9 buckshot which ws only available as a handload...

cousinkix1953
07-18-2009, 2:40 PM
I dont understand why the focus shifts to the weapon the idiot used in this attack. Why not put all the blame on him? Is he entirely to blame for his actions or are we to blame the shotgun for making him do it?
If it was a 223 they would have said "armor piercing"
If it was a handgun they would have said "high capacity 10 round magazines"
If it was a revolver they would have said "oversized caliber bullets"
If it was a 22 they would have said "concealed cop killer"
But it was a pump shotgun of all things. Oh how terrible:eek:"rhino killer"
An infamous anti-handgun San Jose police chief used to recoomend a 12 guage pump shotgun for home defense instead. Now, what does Joe McNamara say about this? "Ban the Mossberg 500"?

KrizB
07-18-2009, 2:51 PM
In all of the Tv shows that follow SWAT teams around (ex: Dallas SWAT), the SOP when meeting any resistance seems to be securing the area and trying to get the suspects to surrender (over several hours).

Within 90 minutes of the shooting they decided to clear a multi floor apartment complex, unit by unit with an armed suspect not afraid to shoot hiding somewhere. All the noise and yelling as they worked down the hallway- it's easy to see how he got the drop on them.

Risky business

bohoki
07-18-2009, 2:52 PM
and yet they are just fine in california to them nunchucks are more dangerous

Mikeb
07-18-2009, 2:54 PM
I was talkin' guns with an "anti" friend. He remarked that they had no place in civil society because they were designed to kill people. I said, "You make that sound like a bad thing?"
take care
Mike

M198
07-18-2009, 3:24 PM
In all of the Tv shows that follow SWAT teams around (ex: Dallas SWAT), the SOP when meeting any resistance seems to be securing the area and trying to get the suspects to surrender (over several hours).

Within 90 minutes of the shooting they decided to clear a multi floor apartment complex, unit by unit with an armed suspect not afraid to shoot hiding somewhere. All the noise and yelling as they worked down the hallway- it's easy to see how he got the drop on them.

Risky business

Anyone with basic CQB or even MOUNT training knows that it is extremely difficult to clear a room with an armed person inside without taking casualties.

jumbopanda
07-18-2009, 3:53 PM
I dont understand why the focus shifts to the weapon the idiot used in this attack. Why not put all the blame on him? Is he entirely to blame for his actions or are we to blame the shotgun for making him do it?
If it was a 223 they would have said "armor piercing"
If it was a handgun they would have said "high capacity 10 round magazines"
If it was a revolver they would have said "oversized caliber bullets"
If it was a 22 they would have said "concealed cop killer"
But it was a pump shotgun of all things. Oh how terrible:eek:"rhino killer"

And if it was a .177" pellet gun they would have called it an "eyeball remover." :p

HowardW56
07-18-2009, 4:29 PM
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/video?id=6918346

This Jim Hoffer is spouting the same sort of crap mentioned here in CA: ban guns throughout the country because the scum who live here can get them elsewhere.

I'm not sure that this will really be the "Patrick Purdy" of the East Coast, but it gives a very clear message to those of the non-black rifle crowd what we've been dealing with all along.

Thank goodness it wasn't a Saiga 12 with a 25-round drum!

Now if he had said that a pump shotgun is one of the most effective weapons ever, he'd just start a friendly debate...

LAK Supply
07-18-2009, 4:59 PM
This guy is an idiot. Period. Getting shot at is one of the dangers of being in Law Enforcement. They knew the risk going in. It's unfortunate that this happened, but he should look at their training instead of *****ing about the tool the perp used. If they can't handle situations like this maybe they should reevaluate whether or not they're cut out for law enforcement.

GoodEyeSniper
07-18-2009, 7:20 PM
I was talkin' guns with an "anti" friend. He remarked that they had no place in civil society because they were designed to kill people. I said, "You make that sound like a bad thing?"
take care
Mike

Far from the most effective debating technique, but I like it anyways :43:

Next time ask him how he feels about hunters who get 90% of their meat from painlessly killing an animal in the wild, opposed to him (if he eats meat) eating a burger that came from a penned in cow, shoulder to shoulder with other cows and cow crap, until it's life was taken in a poorly ventilated warehouse, surrounded by the blood and bodies of its comrades.

...or something to that affect.

rogdigity
07-18-2009, 8:18 PM
[I]Not only does a Mossberg 500 pump shotgun vaporize people, it erase's all traces of their past.

maybe it can get you out of a parking ticket? or hell, maybe a marrige?



If you can't take down a charging quail in the first shot....

it's already too late.

ya, you have to keep an eye on the little dangley thing in their face. thats the part that gets ya


I guess my Benelli M1 Super 90 isn't as dangerous as my Mossberg.

ok, i think tom knapp might be a terrorist then! if ANYONE can get that many shots off that fast then they have to be a terrorist. and those clays he uses, he must imagine they are little people... little orange people. i did hear in one of the follow up videos that the shotgun was capable of 5 shots in 2-2.5 seconds. well, check out this web page:

http://www.tomknapp.net/about/worldRecords.php


tom knapp can HAND TOSS 8 clays and shoot them all WITH A PUMP SHOTGUN in 1.87 seconds.


on an unrelated note, we can unrealistically call that .23375 seconds per clay. now with his semi-auto shotgun he can shoot 10 HAND TOSSED clays and hit them all in 2.2 seconds. we can also unrealistically call that .22 seconds per clay, so that puts the difference between shooting a semi-auto and a pump at .01375 of a second.

that guy is good

Meplat
07-18-2009, 9:49 PM
These clowns think a tin star and a blue suit make them supermen. Donít expect them to be able to protect you during the coming unrest. They get all worked up over a pump shotgun (actually, used properly, one of the best close combat weapons available). They will turn tail in the face of determined resistance. They are trained to handle small groups of, or individual, criminals by using overwhelming force and firepower. They are trained to look upon ANY degree of casualties as unacceptable. Faced with determined forces, with anything like parody in equipment and numbers, with maybe a few combat veterans mixed in, and believing in the righteousness of their cause and having the courage of their convictions, these bozos will melt like sand castles in the surf. Better be prepared to look after yourself.

tyrist
07-18-2009, 10:12 PM
These clowns think a tin star and a blue suit make them supermen. Donít expect them to be able to protect you during the coming unrest. They get all worked up over a pump shotgun (actually, used properly, one of the best close combat weapons available). They will turn tail in the face of determined resistance. They are trained to handle small groups of, or individual, criminals by using overwhelming force and firepower. They are trained to look upon ANY degree of casualties as unacceptable. Faced with determined forces, with anything like parody in equipment and numbers, with maybe a few combat veterans mixed in, and believing in the righteousness of their cause and having the courage of their convictions, these bozos will melt like sand castles in the surf. Better be prepared to look after yourself.

Actually we are trained to face much larger number than ourselves. We utilize organization and training to over come the number advantage. If we can bring in additional resources we will but honestly we are trained to use disciple and organization to over come much larger adversaries.

Irrational Voice
07-18-2009, 10:45 PM
If this is the most dangerous weapon ever when do they start the Mossberg 500 for M14 exchange program?


I might be able to scrounge up a couple dozen 500s.

ukdkbr
07-18-2009, 10:48 PM
"..if the, if the Officer had not vacated that spot, he, the Officer woulda had, would have, would have been, we wouldn't be talking about him today, he would have been gone."

Not only does a Mossberg 500 pump shotgun vaporize people, it erase's all traces of their past.

God damn, they didn't list that on the box when I bought mine, that's a major selling point!

jeffsenpai
07-18-2009, 10:54 PM
These clowns think a tin star and a blue suit make them supermen. Donít expect them to be able to protect you during the coming unrest. They get all worked up over a pump shotgun (actually, used properly, one of the best close combat weapons available). They will turn tail in the face of determined resistance. They are trained to handle small groups of, or individual, criminals by using overwhelming force and firepower. They are trained to look upon ANY degree of casualties as unacceptable. Faced with determined forces, with anything like parity in equipment and numbers, with maybe a few combat veterans mixed in, and believing in the righteousness of their cause and having the courage of their convictions, these bozos will melt like sand castles in the surf. Better be prepared to look after yourself.

fix'd

Sunwolf
07-19-2009, 5:23 AM
Actually we are trained to face much larger number than ourselves. We utilize organization and training to over come the number advantage. If we can bring in additional resources we will but honestly we are trained to use disciple and organization to over come much larger adversaries.

Any kind of real opposition and the police will fold like yesterdays newspaper like in the riots.

jdberger
07-19-2009, 6:55 PM
fix'd

I liked "parody" better.

cortayack
07-19-2009, 7:17 PM
Any kind of real opposition and the police will fold like yesterdays newspaper like in the riots.


Speaking of riots, If the LAPD would've held their ground doing the first fare up, the riots might not of happen!!! If I remembered right, they turned tail when SHTF! The rioters got bolder and so the out come......Just about the time you want a Mossberg close.........;)

tyrist
07-19-2009, 8:03 PM
Speaking of riots, If the LAPD would've held their ground doing the first fare up, the riots might not of happen!!! If I remembered right, they turned tail when SHTF! The rioters got bolder and so the out come......Just about the time you want a Mossberg close.........;)

What do you expect is going to happen when the damn Commander of the entire bureau comes on the air and tells everyone to STAND DOWN..and then the officers start yelling but officer needs help. Bit city politics are just wonderful. City leaders in los angeles were afraid a strong police response would make matters worse and that no police response was better. They had the entire department in a holding area for a couple of days before letting them out.

cousinkix1953
07-20-2009, 3:30 AM
Tom Gresham is having fun with this moron police chief in New Jersey on his "Gun Talk" show...

Sunwolf
07-20-2009, 5:51 AM
What do you expect is going to happen when the damn Commander of the entire bureau comes on the air and tells everyone to STAND DOWN..and then the officers start yelling but officer needs help. Bit city politics are just wonderful. City leaders in los angeles were afraid a strong police response would make matters worse and that no police response was better. They had the entire department in a holding area for a couple of days before letting them out.

It`s not a matter of training,etc.It is a matter of will.None of the Leo`s I know are going to stick their necks out in a major battle due to politics,after you have been screwed over by the command structure several times you will have no loyalty toward them.

yellowfin
07-20-2009, 5:54 AM
This guy is an idiot. Period. Getting shot at is one of the dangers of being in Law Enforcement. They knew the risk going in. It's unfortunate that this happened, but he should look at their training instead of *****ing about the tool the perp used. If they can't handle situations like this maybe they should reevaluate whether or not they're cut out for law enforcement.
My guess is that they ***** about the tool because it pleases their masters to do so.

Jerkdog
07-20-2009, 6:19 AM
Drama queens

"Its a favorite of big game hunters and safari guides because, believe it or not, it will stop a charging rhino"

Whoa ...

Or a charging quail. Pretty versatile really.

:rofl2:

rogdigity
07-20-2009, 6:43 AM
My guess is that they ***** about the tool because it pleases their masters to do so.



you cant go around *****ing about your superiors. good way to get 'accidently' shot

Hunter4life1990
07-20-2009, 4:28 PM
"he was ready to go to war"

looks like the only thing that police cheifs ever gone to war with is a shelf of donuts at the local cofee shop

bodger
07-20-2009, 5:07 PM
What do you expect is going to happen when the damn Commander of the entire bureau comes on the air and tells everyone to STAND DOWN..and then the officers start yelling but officer needs help. Bit city politics are just wonderful. City leaders in los angeles were afraid a strong police response would make matters worse and that no police response was better. They had the entire department in a holding area for a couple of days before letting them out.

Yeah buddy, and I Loaded Open Carried like a mutha the whole time. Rem 870 on the truck seat and .45 auto on the belt.
Hell, I didn't see one cop car for what seemed like days. No motor cops, no nuthin'. LOTS of looters though.

There was a guy on top of Len Jac's at La Brea and Melrose picking off looters with a scoped .22 by shooting at their legs.

And the Koreans down in Koreatown were on the roofs with black rifles. They actually blew a few looters away I heard. And kept their shops intact I heard too.

NEVER in my life was I so glad to be a gun owner and have a decent supply of ammo around.

M. Sage
07-20-2009, 7:38 PM
"If you get hit by a shotgun blast from that close, you are going down, shield or no shield," Nalbach said. "It was very tight quarters."

Bull. Someone needs to learn basic physics. Someone else apparently needed to learn what the shield was for. It's sufficient to stop buckshot or slugs.

If they reacted according to their training, their training sucked. Why would you chase in after people who are obviously ready for a fight right at that moment? I'd have made them wait a day or two... shut off the power, shut off the water and just... wait.

KylaGWolf
07-20-2009, 9:03 PM
As a LEO, that chief was an embarrassment to my profession.

He was an embarrassment to everyone's profession. Sad thing is though there will be those that believe his drivel. Someone said they had to go wash out their eyes with bleach...lol I was going to say poor bleach in my ears for hearing such garbage coming out of my computer speakers.

rogdigity
07-21-2009, 6:41 AM
im a pool repair guy. i have access to pure chlorine. might clean out a little better


the fact that people buy into this crap is amazing. i remember when i first started buying guns and everyone would always say 'i thought guns were illegal'. my first thoughts were usually are you serious?

KylaGWolf
07-21-2009, 7:24 AM
I had to turn the video off after just a few seconds it was painful to watch.

akira
07-21-2009, 10:45 AM
omg that hurts to watch.

:(

KrizB
07-24-2009, 5:36 AM
wowzer

http://blog.nj.com/njv_bob_braun/2009/07/honor_fallen_officer_marc_dina.html


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v92/Zantar45/stoopid.jpg

BroncoBob
07-24-2009, 6:09 AM
Automatic pump shot gun :confused:, ready to so war? Wow! Just wow.

bodger
08-03-2009, 7:48 AM
Australia. Port Arthur. Terrible tragedy, produced such FUD that Australia's gun laws are now basically "You can't have any".

And the ironic thing about it is, that killing spree might have ended earlier by a gas station attendant who had a rifle. But per Australia's laws at the time, the ammunition was locked away in a safe. The attendant couldn't get to it in time to load and fire on the gunman before he left to go and kill more people.

A CalGuns member sent a PM to me asking for the reference to the gas station attendant and the locked ammo so it could be made more widely known.

Here is the link to the article that describes the Port Arthur incident in chronological order of events that day:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthur_massacre_(Australia)

Service station murder and abduction
Graham Sutherland, who just had been shot at in his car, reversed back up the road then drove to the service station close by where he tried to inform people what was happening. Bryant then drove up to the service station and cut off a white Toyota Corolla that was attempting to exit onto the highway. Glenn Pears was driving the car with Zoe Hall in the passenger seat. Bryant quickly exited the car with his rifle in hand and tried to pull Miss Hall from the car. Mr Pears got out of the car and approached Bryant. Bryant then pointed the gun at Pears and pushed him backwards, eventually directing him into the now open boot of the BMW. He locked Mr Pears inside the boot.

Bryant then moved back to the passenger side of Mr Pears' car. Miss Hall was said to have climbed over to the driver's seat. Bryant raised his rifle and fired three shots, killing her. However, her body was later seen by a police officer in the passenger seat. Many people around the service station saw this and ran to hide in nearby bushland. The service station attendant told everyone to lie down and he locked the main doors. He grabbed his rifle, but as per Australian law, the ammunition was kept locked in a safe. By the time it was retrieved and the gun loaded, Bryant was back in his car and gone. A police officer arrived several minutes later and then went in the direction of Bryant.

Sheepdog1968
08-03-2009, 9:14 AM
Nothing like 1870s technology.

bodger
08-03-2009, 12:18 PM
Nothing like 1870s technology.

"Police arrived several minutes later".

....after an armed citizen might have been able to end the whole debacle had he not been thwarted with ludicrous gun laws that ENABLED the criminal.

And look what happened to the gun laws after this incident. let's disarm ALL the citizens, that will prevent this from happening again.

off topic now so I shall remain silent.

motorhead
08-03-2009, 12:44 PM
how could anyone possibly think this loveable little critter is dangerous?
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj22/neon_tony/win1200.jpg

Theseus
08-03-2009, 1:11 PM
how could anyone possibly think this loveable little critter is dangerous?
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj22/neon_tony/win1200.jpg

Didn't you know a litter of kittens dies every time you rack it? You kitten murderer!

bodger
08-03-2009, 1:16 PM
It's that racking sound that is most dangerous. That should not be allowed. That might frighten the antis.