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View Full Version : LOC in unicorporated territory


boxbro
07-16-2009, 10:23 AM
I see discussion of LOC in unincorporated territory as long as it's not illegal to discharge a firearm there.
I am wondering how do we know which areas it's legal in vs illegal in.
Is there a list of unincorporated territories that are OK ?
Can someone tell me if Topanga, CA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topanga,_California) is legal to LOC/discharge a firearm ?
Also, would it be legal to use a pellet gun in ones own yard to fight off vermin ?

pullnshoot25
07-16-2009, 10:27 AM
I see discussion of LOC in unincorporated territory as long as it's not illegal to discharge a firearm there.
I am wondering how do we know which areas it's legal in vs illegal in.
Is there a list of unincorporated territories that are OK ?
Can someone tell me if Topanga, CA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topanga,_California) is legal to LOC/discharge a firearm ?
Also, would it be legal to use a pellet gun in ones own yard to fight off vermin ?

City Clerk is a good place to start...

boxbro
07-16-2009, 10:31 AM
City Clerk is a good place to start...

There is no city clerk in Topanga.
Would I have to go to the LA city clerk since it's in LA county ?

Also, I was hoping to find more info about other unincorporated territories as well, all across the state..
If nobody has compiled a list, it would be nice to start one.

Glock22Fan
07-16-2009, 10:48 AM
I see discussion of LOC in unincorporated territory as long as it's not illegal to discharge a firearm there.
I am wondering how do we know which areas it's legal in vs illegal in.
Is there a list of unincorporated territories that are OK ?
Can someone tell me if Topanga, CA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topanga,_California) is legal to LOC/discharge a firearm ?
Also, would it be legal to use a pellet gun in ones own yard to fight off vermin ?


IIRC, about the only unincorporated areas in L.A. county where shooting is allowed are ranges and land open for hunting. In all other unincorporated areas (in L.A. County), IMO, loc would be illegal.

paul0660
07-16-2009, 10:53 AM
You can't shoot from roads or around them, so you basically have to be in the boonies to loc.

7x57
07-16-2009, 10:56 AM
IIRC, about the only unincorporated areas in L.A. county where shooting is allowed are ranges and land open for hunting. In all other unincorporated areas (in L.A. County), IMO, loc would be illegal.

A recent thread just about convinced me that being "open for hunting" isn't enough, since much of Angeles NF is open for hunting but probably isn't legal for LOC. But I really should read the relevant laws in more detail and then post my observations and questions for further discussion.

Of course, it's *sheer* *accident* if it's too complicated to safely LOC. No agenda there, nosiree. :mad:

7x57

Glock22Fan
07-16-2009, 11:04 AM
A recent thread just about convinced me that being "open for hunting" isn't enough, since much of Angeles NF is open for hunting but probably isn't legal for LOC. But I really should read the relevant laws in more detail and then post my observations and questions for further discussion.

Of course, it's *sheer* *accident* if it's too complicated to safely LOC. No agenda there, nosiree. :mad:

7x57


Have to admit that in L.A. County, the only time I'd loaded open carry would be on my own property*, when actually hunting or when on a range that allows it.

*Yes, I do know about Overturf and Public Places.

boxbro
07-16-2009, 11:10 AM
A recent thread just about convinced me that being "open for hunting" isn't enough, since much of Angeles NF is open for hunting but probably isn't legal for LOC. But I really should read the relevant laws in more detail and then post my observations and questions for further discussion.

Of course, it's *sheer* *accident* if it's too complicated to safely LOC. No agenda there, nosiree. :mad:

7x57

Isn't it legal to LOC anywhere in the NF ?
Aren't the restrictions on discharge only ?

CSDGuy
07-16-2009, 11:26 AM
Isn't it legal to LOC anywhere in the NF ?
Aren't the restrictions on discharge only ?
PC 12031 makes it illegal to have a loaded weapon where it is illegal to discharge it... Like upon or across roads, incorporated cities, and prohibited discharge areas/shooting prohibited districts. Now if you're at home, within your business, and/or on property you own, have a CCW License... you SHOULD be ok...

7x57
07-16-2009, 11:30 AM
PC 12031 makes it illegal to have a loaded weapon where it is illegal to discharge it... Like upon or across roads, incorporated cities, and prohibited discharge areas/shooting prohibited districts. Now if you're at home, within your business, and/or on property you own, have a CCW License... you SHOULD be ok...

And the problem is that there is a LA county rule that you can't discharge weapons in ANF. Hunting is an exception, but that appears to mean LOC isn't legal when not hunting.

I really want to try to understand this better, but that's what it looks like. :mad:

7x57

Decoligny
07-16-2009, 11:41 AM
There is no city clerk in Topanga.
Would I have to go to the LA city clerk since it's in LA county ?

Also, I was hoping to find more info about other unincorporated territories as well, all across the state..
If nobody has compiled a list, it would be nice to start one.

Most of unincorporated Los Angeles County is covered by Los Angeles County ordinances making discharge of firearms illegal.

Look at Chapter 13.66.040 and 13.66.130

For Topanga, look specifically at 13.66.280

http://www.ordlink.com/codes/lacounty/index.htm

boxbro
07-16-2009, 12:23 PM
Most of unincorporated Los Angeles County is covered by Los Angeles County ordinances making discharge of firearms illegal.

Look at Chapter 13.66.040 and 13.66.130

For Topanga, look specifically at 13.66.280

http://www.ordlink.com/codes/lacounty/index.htm

Thanks for that.
I am bit confused about the half mile part in 13.66.040.
How is one to transport a firearm to get a half mile in ?
LCC ?


13.66.010 Use of weapons permitted when.
This chapter, except as otherwise provided in this Part 1, does not prohibit the discharge of any rifle, shotgun, pistol, revolver or firearm of any kind, or the shooting of any arrow or other missile, when necessary so to do to protect life or property, or to destroy or kill any predatory or dangerous animal. (Ord. 7730 1, 1960: Ord. 7381 1 (part), 1958: Ord. 1769 Art. 3 302, 1929.)

13.66.040 Discharging firearms--Restrictions generally.
A person shall not shoot, fire or discharge, and a person, firm or corporation shall not cause or permit to be shot, fired or discharged, any rifle, shotgun, pistol, revolver or firearm in the general direction of any house, camp or place of human habitation, or in the general direction of any public highway, road, street, way, park or premises, unless the place from which such rifle, shotgun, pistol, revolver or firearm is shot, fired or discharged is at least one-half mile distant from such house, camp or place of human habitation, or is at least one-half mile distant from that portion of such public highway, road, street, way, park or premises toward which such rifle, shotgun, pistol, revolver or firearm is shot, fired or discharged. The exception in Section 13.66.010 to destroying or killing any predatory or dangerous animal does not apply to this section. (Ord. 7381 1 (part), 1958: Ord. 1769 Art. 3 304, 1929.)

:rofl: trying to read and understand the boundaries below, I wonder if it was written by Dr. Suess:

13.66.280 District No. 15, Topanga-Calabasas area, includes all that part of the unincorporated territory of the county of Los Angeles within the following described boundaries:
Beginning at the intersection of the north and south quarter section line of fractional Section 23, Township 1 North, Range 17 West, S.B.M. with the southwesterly boundary of the city of Los Angeles as same existed on August 1, 1958; thence southeasterly along the boundary of said city and following the same in all its various courses to the east line of said fractional section; thence southerly along section lines to the southeast corner of the northeast quarter of the southeast quarter of Section 26, said township and range; thence westerly along the south line of said quarter quarter section to the southwest corner thereof; thence southerly along quarter quarter section lines to the San Bernardino Base Line; thence easterly along said base line to the north and south quarter quarter section line in the west half of Section 1, Township 1 South, Range 17 West, S.B.M.; thence southerly along said quarter quarter section line to the northwest corner of the southeast quarter of the southwest quarter of said last-mentioned section; thence easterly and southerly along the northerly and easterly lines of said last-mentioned quarter quarter section to the southeast corner thereof; thence easterly along section lines to the northeast corner of the northwest quarter of the northeast quarter of Section 12, said last-mentioned township and range; thence southerly along quarter quarter section line to the southeast corner of said last-mentioned quarter quarter section; thence easterly along quarter quarter section lines to the southeast corner of the northwest quarter of the northwest quarter of Section 7, Township 1 South, Range 16 West, S.B.M.; thence northerly along quarter quarter section lines to the east and west quarter section line of Section 6, said last-mentioned township and range; thence easterly along quarter section line to the center of said last-mentioned section; thence northerly along quarter section line to the San Bernardino Base Line; thence westerly along said base line to the range line between Ranges 16 and 17 West, S.B.M.; thence northerly along range line S.B.M.; thence northerly along range line to the southeast corner of the northeast quarter of the southeast quarter of fractional Section 25, Township 1 North, Range 17 West, S.B.M.; thence westerly along quarter quarter section line to the southwest corner of said last-mentioned quarter quarter section; thence northerly along quarter quarter section lines to the southwesterly boundary of said city of Los Angeles; thence southeasterly along said last-mentioned southwesterly boundary to the north and south quarter quarter section line in the east half of fractional Section 30, Township 1 North, Range 16 West, S.B.M.; thence southerly along quarter quarter section lines to the east and west quarter section line of Section 31, said last-mentioned township and range; thence easterly along quarter section line to east line of said last-mentioned section; thence southerly along section lines to the San Bernardino Base Line; thence easterly along said base line to the northwesterly boundary of said city of Los Angeles; thence southwesterly along said last-mentioned northwesterly boundary to the most westerly corner of the Rancho Boca de Santa Monica, as shown on map recorded in Book 3, page 13 of Patents, records of Los Angeles County; thence southeasterly along the southwesterly boundary of said rancho to east and west quarter section line of fractional Section 19, Township 1 South, Range 16 West, S.B.M.; thence westerly along quarter section lines to the southwest corner of the southeast quarter of the northwest quarter of Section 24, Township 1 South, Range 17 West, S.B.M.; thence northerly along quarter quarter section lines to the northwest corner of said last-mentioned quarter quarter section; thence easterly along quarter quarter section lines to the southwest corner of northeast quarter of the northeast quarter of said last-mentioned section; thence northerly along quarter quarter section lines to the south line of Section 12, said last-mentioned township and range; thence westerly and northerly along the south and west lines of said last-mentioned section to the southeast corner of the southeast quarter of the northeast quarter of Section 11, said last-mentioned township and range; thence westerly and northerly along the south and west lines of said last-mentioned quarter quarter section to the northwest corner thereof; thence westerly along quarter quarter section lines to the southwest corner of the northeast quarter of the northeast quarter of Section 10, said last-mentioned township and range; thence northerly along quarter quarter section lines to the east and west quarter section line of Section 3, said last-mentioned township and range; thence easterly along quarter section line to the east line of said last-mentioned section; thence northerly along section lines to the southeast corner of the northeast quarter of Section 34, Township 1 North, Range 17 West, S.B.M.; thence westerly, northerly and easterly along the south, west and north lines of said last-mentioned quarter section to the southwest corner of the southeast quarter of the southeast quarter of Section 27, said last-mentioned township and range; thence northerly and easterly along the west and north lines of said last-mentioned quarter quarter section to the northeast corner thereof; thence northerly along section line to the east and west quarter section line of Section 26, said last-mentioned township and range; thence easterly along quarter section line to the southwest corner of the southeast quarter of the northwest quarter of said last-mentioned section; thence northerly and easterly along the west and north lines of said last-mentioned quarter quarter section to the north and south quarter section line of said last-mentioned section; thence northerly along quarter section lines to the point of beginning. (Ord. 7381 1 (part), 1958: Ord. 1769 Art. 1 115, 1929.)

Decoligny
07-16-2009, 12:51 PM
You shall not carry any gun,
No won't let you, or anyone.

We don't allow for self defense,
We made it a criminal offense.

You're at the mercy of the crooks,
Just fend them off with dirty looks.

If bear of couger comes your way,
Just try real hard to run away.