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View Full Version : Gunfight in Jersey, 5 Cops Wounded


bodger
07-16-2009, 8:46 AM
Saw this on yahoo:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/17/nyregion/17jersey.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

“These individuals were sought by our department,” Chief Comey said. “This individual came to us fully ready to go to war with us. That weapon was meant to hunt nothing other than men.”


I think the weapon referred to in that statement was a shottie. I wonder what type, and how long it will take New Jersey to enact a law against owning one.

I hope those cops all pull through and get well.

Para45
07-16-2009, 8:52 AM
I read that it was an "automatic" weapon....either way, more bad news for law-abiding, responsible gun owners!!! Thoughts & prayers to the LEOs though for sure.

1923mack
07-16-2009, 8:55 AM
If this was their SWAT team, I am not impressed. They knew the 2 two guys had shotguns and just walked up to the door to get shot at? They eventually nailed the 2 guys but at what cost? Would think a little better tactics could have been used.

deyv
07-16-2009, 8:59 AM
If you dig into it more it looks like at least one of the perps was carrying a pump shotgun.

Here is a line from the local Fox station's web story:

"Police say the suspect opened fire with an illegal pump shotgun and ran back into the apartment building."

Is this the "automatic weapon" they were speaking of?
Since when is a pump shotgun automatic? Its not even semi-automatic.

-deyv

yellowfin
07-16-2009, 9:38 AM
New Jersey has dug itself into a crap pit and has no one to blame for it but its own government and police forces. The rank and file LEO's need to revolt against their leadership and throw out the anti gun brass because it's their fault they're getting shot at.

Theseus
07-16-2009, 9:44 AM
Saw this on yahoo:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/17/nyregion/17jersey.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

“These individuals were sought by our department,” Chief Comey said. “This individual came to us fully ready to go to war with us. That weapon was meant to hunt nothing other than men.”

Um. . . Really? I would like to see them prove the intent of the shotgun to commit murder! Just because the shotgun was there does not mean it was a willing participant. Perhaps the shotgun was being threatened with rust if it did not perform?

I am sure all my guns fear rust and consider it an immediate threat of bodily injury.

WatchMan
07-16-2009, 9:51 AM
Um. . . Really? I would like to see them prove the intent of the shotgun to commit murder! Just because the shotgun was there does not mean it was a willing participant. Perhaps the shotgun was being threatened with rust if it did not perform?

I am sure all my guns fear rust and consider it an immediate threat of bodily injury.

Yeah, it's the same sick crap all over again. It's like these officials just can't help themselves..."It was the gun! That gun is evil!" Don't worry mentioning the person behind it, just make sure to get the evil gun in the report.

Pump shotguns = man hunters. :mad:

savasyn
07-16-2009, 9:51 AM
"The shotgun blast missed the officer on foot, but the pellets shattered the windshield of the police car, grazing the leg of the officer at the wheel."

Umm, where were the cops legs that pellets coming through the windshield hit his leg?

bodger
07-16-2009, 9:57 AM
I read this in an updated NYT article:


These individuals were being sought by our department for a major crime,” Chief Comey said, declining to comment on the crime. “This individual came fully ready to go to war with us. This is not a normal shotgun, this is not a street weapon, this is one meant to hunt nothing other than men, and he took it out on our police officer.”

Hunt men? Or maybe, defend one's life from the same type of scumbags who shot these cops?

Wait for it. New wave of gun laws coming.
And yeah, not to criticize the LEOs, but what did they do, walk up and knock on the door and get shot in the face?
I don't think it was a SWAT Team.

Maestro Pistolero
07-16-2009, 10:48 AM
This is not a normal shotgun
How is a pump shotgun not normal?

KCM222
07-16-2009, 10:52 AM
How is a pump shotgun not normal?

It probably had a shoulder thing that goes up.

Theseus
07-16-2009, 10:56 AM
How is a pump shotgun not normal?

You didn't see the evil look in the shotguns barrel! It was evil, pure evil! It was the devils shotgun!

7x57
07-16-2009, 11:02 AM
This is not a normal shotgun, this is not a street weapon, this is one meant to hunt nothing other than men, and he took it out on our police officer.”


How is a pump shotgun not normal?

My guess is that he means it has an 18.5" barrel and a full-length tube, or something, instead of a 26" barrel, magazine blocked to two rounds, and wood furniture.

You know--no sporting purpose like the Constitution talks about, therefore nothing any law-abiding citizen would have. :chris:

7x57

bodger
07-16-2009, 11:03 AM
How is a pump shotgun not normal?

It probably had some horrible issues growing up, began acting in an odd way, had an extensive background of criminal behavior, and should never have been sold in the first place.
I'm sure some new laws will be enacted to protect us from such evil.

MasterYong
07-16-2009, 11:11 AM
How is a pump shotgun not normal?

They omitted the part about how this shotgun only fires tactical thermonuclear devices.

One day, they'll ban private ownership of pump-action thermonuclear device-slinging shotguns... :TFH:

Para45
07-16-2009, 11:26 AM
It probably had a shoulder thing that goes up.

:rofl2:

bodger
07-16-2009, 11:54 AM
It probably had a shoulder thing that goes up.

Okay, c'mon now, those things really ARE dangerous.
That's an evil feature, no?
:43:

AlexDD
07-16-2009, 12:45 PM
The police chief just went on an anti-gun rant during a live press conference five minutes ago.

kermit315
07-16-2009, 12:51 PM
just keep in mind during all this: Remember all those times that we told the duck hunters "after they come after the black rifle crowd, they will come after your pump shotguns and bolt rifles".

Its beginning.

GP3
07-16-2009, 12:55 PM
Where does it say that this was a pump shotgun?

bodger
07-16-2009, 12:59 PM
Where does it say that this was a pump shotgun?

From The New York Times updated story:


Chief Comey said that two officers had been sitting in a parked car since about 11 p.m. Wednesday, staking out what they believed to be the suspect’s car. At about 5 a.m., a man dressed in a cloak that appeared to be priest’s garb walked toward the car.

After driving up alongside the vehicle, the officer on the passenger side jumped out to apprehend the suspect. But concealed under the man’s cloak was a pump-action shotgun and a strap of ammunition. The suspect pivoted, threw off his cloak and unloaded two rounds of ammunition.

“As he realized we were on him, he shed an outer garment to make sure that he could pull the shotgun up so he could go to war almost instantly, go to battle,” Chief Comey said.

The shotgun blast missed the officer on foot, but the pellets shattered the windshield of the police car, grazing the leg of the officer at the wheel.


Okay, so, that's one officer grazed in the leg during the initial confrontation. But the perp managed to take out four more cops as the melee coninued to unfold after initial shots fired?..... WTF!!

7x57
07-16-2009, 1:09 PM
just keep in mind during all this: Remember all those times that we told the duck hunters "after they come after the black rifle crowd, they will come after your pump shotguns and bolt rifles".

Its beginning.

It began a long time ago, and you can add lever-action to the list. Dear old Ted Kennedy got up an railed against "armor-piercing rifles" and said it was a national shame that there was such a cop-killing weapon available in every sporting goods store in the country. The evil, cop-killing cartridge? The .30-30. Imagine what they must think of such powerhouse cartridges as the .243 or .22-250 (though I have never checked it, high velocity for caliber ought to be pretty good at penetrating vests).

Before that, we have arbitrary laws based on caliber, barrel length, and so on. (Contenders got a special exemption, and they're popular for some kinds of hunting.)

Remember: every useful hunting cartridge is "armor-piercing." Every bolt-action is a sniper-rifle. Every high-velocity cartridge is capable of "killing at three miles away." Every shotgun is a street-sweeper or trench gun. Every defensive gun has no other purpose but to kill. Every affordable handgun is a "Saturday-night special." Also remember that one of the common refrains in Australia were sentiments like "I didn't care about that other stuff, I just wanted my pump-action shotgun. And then they came for that too."

Make sure you can explain those things politely and effectively to hunters who are skeptical about black rifles. We have to make sure they can never, never drive another wedge between shooters.

7x57

maxit
07-16-2009, 1:18 PM
Saw this on yahoo:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/17/nyregion/17jersey.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

“These individuals were sought by our department,” Chief Comey said. “This individual came to us fully ready to go to war with us. That weapon was meant to hunt nothing other than men.”


I think the weapon referred to in that statement was a shottie. I wonder what type, and how long it will take New Jersey to enact a law against owning one.

I hope those cops all pull through and get well. AMEN!

IT WAS A SHOTGUN. COULD BE A TACTICAL VERSION. HOWEVER IT IS JUST LIKE THE NY TIMES TO CAST ASPERSIONS ON GUNS NO MATTER WHAT.

GP3
07-16-2009, 1:25 PM
Saw this on yahoo:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/17/nyregion/17jersey.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

“These individuals were sought by our department,” Chief Comey said. “This individual came to us fully ready to go to war with us. That weapon was meant to hunt nothing other than men.”


I think the weapon referred to in that statement was a shottie. I wonder what type, and how long it will take New Jersey to enact a law against owning one.

I hope those cops all pull through and get well.



Interesting. Fox quotes the chief saying:

"This individual came fully ready to go to war with us," said Comey. "This is not a normal shotgun. ... This is a gun meant for nothing other than to hunt a man."

PEBKAC
07-16-2009, 1:33 PM
Now, to be perfectly fair, the NY Times is quoting people on the "purpose" or "evilness" of the shotgun. Yeah, they can twist people's words, but when someone actually says what the describing officer said...not much twisting needs to happen unless of course they are just making things up. Seems to me these people saying these kinds of things to begin with are more of a problem than the people quoting them...

Untamed1972
07-16-2009, 1:36 PM
"This individual came fully ready to go to war with us. This is not a normal shotgun, this is not a street weapon, this is one meant to hunt nothing other than men, and he took it out on our police officer.”

What....and the guns that cops carry are for target practice and shooting skeet? Kind of a dumb statement meant to incite fear and gun-hating.

Although I'm also seeing a pattern here of these LEOs perhaps making hasty entries against armed suspects which is needlessly putting them in danger. Whatever happened to securing the area and talking them out or smoking them out with some teargas or whatever. Kinda seems like these LEAs spent so much time training for "high risk entries" and other military type tactics that they're itchin' for chances to use them rather then thinking about what really is the best solution to keep everyone safe.

I'm speaking more in general because I obviously don't know all the details of this situation. But this is the 3rd time LEOs have been shot/killed in the last few months by storming in on known armed individuals.

What fun is all the training and the *****in' taticool gear if you're just gonna sit in the truck with it while the negotiator talks the guy out. And don't get me wrong....I'm not takin' the BGs side....but I don't like seein' hard working folk gettin' shot up needlessly.

Untamed1972
07-16-2009, 1:44 PM
Make sure you can explain those things politely and effectively to hunters who are skeptical about black rifles. We have to make sure they can never, never drive another wedge between shooters free American citizens.

7x57


Minor edit. :)

Untamed1972
07-16-2009, 1:49 PM
Remember: every useful hunting cartridge is "armor-piercing." Every bolt-action is a sniper-rifle. Every high-velocity cartridge is capable of "killing at three miles away." Every shotgun is a street-sweeper or trench gun. Every defensive gun has no other purpose but to kill. Every affordable handgun is a "Saturday-night special." 7x57

Yep...and who has the highest kill ratio per rounds fired in the US military? You got it.....snipers with bolt action rifles. Those things are just pure evil and must be banned! And the sooner the better.

kalikool
07-16-2009, 1:53 PM
i was watching cnn during lunch and i think the mayor said it was a pistol grip shotgun. other than that i dont know what he'd mean by "not normal"

Untamed1972
07-16-2009, 2:05 PM
i was watching cnn during lunch and i think the mayor said it was a pistol grip shotgun. other than that i dont know what he'd mean by "not normal"

It was extra scary black and instead of a silencer....in had loudener on it! Oh yeah....and every inch of it was covered with rails and every rail-mounted accessory known to man. I think he might have bought it from the forsale section on Calguns.

LOL

deyv
07-16-2009, 2:07 PM
Here is the link with the pump shotgun statement:

http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/local_news/new_jersey/090716_police_officer_shot_in_wild_shootout_in_jer sey_city

-deyv

AlexDD
07-16-2009, 2:09 PM
From the news photographs, it looks like a Mossberg pump with a heatshield and pistol grip stock/ammo carrier.

AlexDD
07-16-2009, 2:21 PM
My heart goes out to the families but many of the statements in the press conference make the weapon out to be the cause not the perpetrators.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/video?id=6918346

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/video?id/6918346

kalikool
07-16-2009, 2:22 PM
^^^
OH NO! i have one of those at home! i better leave work now and go check that it isnt running around my neighboorhood just killing everybody on its own! haha.

RTO
07-16-2009, 2:32 PM
The chief is full of baloney.
I'm waiting to hear from the shotgun.

tazmanian devil dog
07-16-2009, 2:37 PM
More B.S. gun laws to come.

Thoughts and prayers for the wounded officers. It's not their fault their own government is retarded.

PEBKAC
07-16-2009, 2:42 PM
From the news photographs, it looks like a Mossberg pump with a heatshield and pistol grip stock/ammo carrier.
Collapsing stock, and a strap to keep you hand from sliding off the forend, and a sling.

It's about as blackticooled as you can make a pump shotgun without serious modification...just needs one of those full length top rails, a sidewinder drum magazine, and some ghost rings. :rolleyes:

Am I the only one thinking that this might be a stolen gun? Last I checked crims weren't big on the whole heavy blackticool modification thing...

Digital_Boy
07-16-2009, 3:04 PM
I give credit to these officers for going out and doing their jobs, but I really have to question their department's training based on their response in this situation.

If a suspect shoots at an officer, then runs inside and barricades himself, with an unknown number of potential accomplices and/or hostages, I would think the proper response would be to call for backup, evacuate civilians (both of which they did) then establish a perimeter so the bad guys can't slip out in the confusion, and wait for SWAT to arrive and establish if the bad guy has help or hostages, then let them work their mojo and neutralize the threat. Hopefully with as little blood shed as possible on both sides.

Flying Bones
07-16-2009, 3:21 PM
[QUOTE=Digital_Boy;2781298]I give credit to these officers for going out and doing their jobs, but I really have to question their department's training based on their response in this situation. QUOTE]

+1.

bodger
07-16-2009, 3:33 PM
I give credit to these officers for going out and doing their jobs, but I really have to question their department's training based on their response in this situation.

If a suspect shoots at an officer, then runs inside and barricades himself, with an unknown number of potential accomplices and/or hostages, I would think the proper response would be to call for backup, evacuate civilians (both of which they did) then establish a perimeter so the bad guys can't slip out in the confusion, and wait for SWAT to arrive and establish if the bad guy has help or hostages, then let them work their mojo and neutralize the threat. Hopefully with as little blood shed as possible on both sides.

It does seem like this whole thing was done cowboy style, and five officers ended up getting shot. I thought the same thing about that dude in Philly a while back that killed some cops. Oakland too. And we had a SWAT officer shot and killed here in LA a while back. I suppose some ambush situations are unavoidable.
Anything can happen I guess, and I don't know all the facts, but I do know that there are tactics and procedures to minimize risk to the responding LEO types.

Hope thay all get better in any case.

JDoe
07-16-2009, 3:51 PM
This is the shotgun used...Mossberg 500 Tactical, 6 shot, Item #50420 with a cheap $12.00 shoulder thing that goes up.

From the news story...

http://media2.myfoxny.com//photo/2009/07/16/shotgun1_20090716165757_320_240.JPG

From Mossberg's site...

http://www.mossberg.com/images/products/SA/500TACTiCAL/50420.jpg

marshaul
07-16-2009, 4:01 PM
If this was their SWAT team, I am not impressed. They knew the 2 two guys had shotguns and just walked up to the door to get shot at? They eventually nailed the 2 guys but at what cost? Would think a little better tactics could have been used.

Sounds like Lovelle Mixon.

tombinghamthegreat
07-16-2009, 4:28 PM
This is the shotgun used...Mossberg 500 Tactical, 6 shot, Item #50420 with a cheap $12.00 shoulder thing that goes up.

From the news story...

http://media2.myfoxny.com//photo/2009/07/16/shotgun1_20090716165757_320_240.JPG

From Mossberg's site...

http://www.mossberg.com/images/products/SA/500TACTiCAL/50420.jpg

Most calgun members has one of the those as a trunk gun. I got one but mine holds 8+1 shells and to cheap to put a pistol grip...

Deamer
07-16-2009, 5:40 PM
Mayor Healey of NJ states in the video that AlexDD linked to that "it was some kind of automatic shotgun." What an idiot.

So anyone else know how to convert a Mossberg pump to full auto?

The Mayor is also a member of the Mayors against gun violence.

RomanDad
07-16-2009, 5:54 PM
From the news photographs, it looks like a Mossberg pump with a heatshield and pistol grip stock/ammo carrier.

I own one of those!!! Mines even scarier looking than that....

I better keep a close eye on it tonight so it doesnt get any bad ideas from its cousin.

HowardW56
07-16-2009, 5:57 PM
It probably had a shoulder thing that goes up.


You mean that barrell shroud thingie??

KrizB
07-16-2009, 7:13 PM
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/video?id=6918346

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/video?id/6918346

Checkout the video "More on shotgun in NJ shooting"

I own two of those black, scary, man hunting, rhino dropping, high capacity shotshell firing, assault-pump Intimidator shotguns that you can buy from any store.:eek:

bodger
07-16-2009, 7:27 PM
Mayor Healey of NJ states in the video that AlexDD linked to that "it was some kind of automatic shotgun." What an idiot.

So anyone else know how to convert a Mossberg pump to full auto?

The Mayor is also a member of the Mayors against gun violence.
The Mayors Against Gun Violence That Don't Know S$*T About Guns In The First Place...

Yeah, automatic shotgun. Apparently, if that were true, there would have been a lot more victims. Gotta get me one of those automatic shottie now that the BGs have them.

Now we're going to have to hear all about where this skell got his gauge, and why it shouldn't have been sold to him, or it shouldn't have been anywhere for him to buy in the first place, and why more gun laws need to be enacted to prevent the Police from getting shot on the job and on and on.

You know it's coming. Might as well make this thread a sticky to keep up with it. And the perps will be just as well armed as ever, and the laws will disarm the citizens so the ones with the balls to do it, can't friggin' defend themselves.

KrizB
07-16-2009, 8:24 PM
IIRC, The gun was stolen from North Carolina