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View Full Version : Legally selling a C&R at a gunshow without a table


SVT_Fox
07-14-2009, 9:40 PM
I heard you can walk around with it, a for sale sign in the barrel, and when you find a buyer just hand it over to an FFL for transfer and DROS.


what about if they have a C&R? can I just hand it over to them? I have my C&R

what else should I know, or better yet, is this even possible?

ke6guj
07-14-2009, 9:48 PM
Yes, you can walk around a gunshow with a for sale sign for your firearms. If it is over 50-years old, and a long gun, you can cash-and-carry the firearm, no FFL needed, no PPT DROS.

If it is a long gun, less than 50-years old, even if a listed C&R, you must PPT through a dealer. Same for all handguns, C&R and modern, must be PPTed through a dealer.

Since you are an C&R FFL, you are required to get the other party's info for your bound book if the firearm is a C&R long gun over 50-years old.. If the other party is also a C&R, then trade copies of your license.

If the firearm is a C&R long gun less than 50-years old, or a C&R handgun, you would log the transfer dealer's info in your bound book, instead of the buyer, since you are transfering the firearm to the dealer.

CHS
07-14-2009, 9:52 PM
If it's a long gun more than 50 years old you can do the transfer for cash or Rolex's at 3am in the alley behind the seedy local 7-11.

Perfectly legal.

We do have SOME freedom left in this beautiful state.

Mssr. Eleganté
07-14-2009, 10:46 PM
I believe it is illegal to transfer a firearm in the parking lot of a gun show though. So you could transfer a 50+ year old long gun inside the show or in the alley behind the 7-11 without going through a Dealer, but if you do it in the parking lot of the gunshow then you can get in trouble.

I've never been able to find the section of the PC that bans firearms transfers in gunshow parking lots. I've only been able to find the PC that requires gunshow promoters to post a sign telling people that it is illegal. But then again, I haven't really looked that hard.

At the Cow Palace show near San Francisco, there is a table set up as you walk in where they give you a zip tie to lock open the action and a little card to fill out with some basic information about you and the gun. The cop at the table even told me to leave most of the card blank. :)

cousinkix1953
07-14-2009, 11:22 PM
I believe it is illegal to transfer a firearm in the parking lot of a gun show though. So you could transfer a 50+ year old long gun inside the show or in the alley behind the 7-11 without going through a Dealer, but if you do it in the parking lot of the gunshow then you can get in trouble.

I've never been able to find the section of the PC that bans firearms transfers in gunshow parking lots. I've only been able to find the PC that requires gunshow promoters to post a sign telling people that it is illegal. But then again, I haven't really looked that hard.

At the Cow Palace show near San Francisco, there is a table set up as you walk in where they give you a zip tie to lock open the action and a little card to fill out with some basic information about you and the gun. The cop at the table even told me to leave most of the card blank. :)
It might not be against any state or federal laws; but nothing prohibits a gun show promoter from banning parking lot sales on the premisis...

ke6guj
07-14-2009, 11:39 PM
The PC in question that Mssr. Elegante refers to is this,

12071.1. (a) No person shall produce, promote, sponsor, operate, or otherwise organize a gun show or event, as specified in subparagraph (B) of paragraph (1) of subdivision (b) of Section 12071, unless that person possesses a valid certificate of eligibility from the Department of Justice. Unless the department's records indicate that the applicant is a person prohibited from possessing firearms, a certificate of eligibility shall be issued by the Department of Justice to an applicant provided the applicant does all of the following:

(p) The show producer shall post, in a readily visible location at each entrance to the parking lot at the show, signage that states: "The transfer of firearms on the parking lot of this facility is a crime."
The issue then becomes, what PC actually criminalizes firearms transfers in that particular parking lot? Are they assuming that any transfer would violate the requirement that one use an FFL to faciliate any transfer? What about 50+ year old long guns, they don't need an FFL to do a legal transfer?

IIRC, In the Nordyke case, the city actually argued that the buyers and sellers complete the sales transaction in the parking lot as to not violate the gun show ban.

Mssr. Eleganté
07-14-2009, 11:42 PM
It might not be against any state or federal laws; but nothing prohibits a gun show promoter from banning parking lot sales on the premisis...

Yeah, but the promoters are required by law to tell people that it is a crime to transfer gun in the parking lot. If the ban was just company policy then it wouldn't be a crime.

CHS
07-14-2009, 11:58 PM
Sounds like another underground regulation to me.

Required by law to post signs stating that it's a crime, when in reality it's not actually a crime.

ke6guj
07-15-2009, 12:10 AM
Is actual PC an "underground regulation", even if it doesn't make sense, and isn't backed up by other PC?

Wouldn't be the first time that a law was passed that didn't mean what they thought it did.

cousinkix1953
07-15-2009, 5:15 AM
Is actual PC an "underground regulation", even if it doesn't make sense, and isn't backed up by other PC?

Wouldn't be the first time that a law was passed that didn't mean what they thought it did.
This particularly true of these gun laws. Buyer and seller need only leave the property to complete the sale of that old C&R rifle or shotgun. "Show closes at 5 PM; see me at Denny's down the street." Have a snack and do the deal there...