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In_Flames
07-12-2009, 10:52 PM
I wanted to build an AR-15, but apparently I can't buy a OLL?(I'm 19)
http://riflegear.com/p-574-lmt-defender-lower-with-collapsing-stock-and-standard-trigger.aspx

"Federal law requires that you be 21 years or age or older to purchase a stripped receiver or frame. If a frame or receiver can only be made into a long gun (rifle or shotgun), it is still a frame or receiver not a handgun or long gun. However, they still are "firearms" by definition, and subject to the same GCA limitations as any other firearms. See Section 921(a)(3)(b). 18 U.S.C. Section 922(b)(1) makes it unlawful for a licensee to sell any firearm other than a shotgun or rifle to any person under the age of 21."

So the only way for me to get an AR-15 is to buy a fully assembled one? :(

BeyondInferno
07-12-2009, 10:53 PM
Sounds like crap to me! Don't know for sure but I don't believe that's the case.

leitung
07-12-2009, 10:56 PM
to buy a stripped lower you must be 21.. I slipped in just under the wire last october.

Josh3239
07-12-2009, 10:57 PM
You'll need atleast a buttstock on the lower to buy one. A buffer tube is probably $25 and I'll be you can get a used buttstock for somewhere between $10-$45. Throw it on and start the DROS as this will take it out of the receiver category and into the rifle category. The rifle category is the key because 18+ can only buy long arms (rifles).

BeyondInferno
07-12-2009, 11:00 PM
Well that makes sense! In theory it could be a pistol.

ke6guj
07-12-2009, 11:00 PM
So the only way for me to get an AR-15 is to buy a fully assembled one? :(Some dealers will sell a fully assembled lower as a long gun to an 18-20 year old.

Sounds like crap to me! Don't know for sure but I don't believe that's the case.nope, its true. The 4473 was updated last October clarifying that a stripped lower is not a rifle or a shotgun, so it doesn't get to use the rifle/shotgun exemption for 18-20 year-olds. Since it is neither a rifle/shotgun, you must be 21 to transfer a stripped lower through an FFL.

lorax3
07-12-2009, 11:00 PM
To buy a firearm from an FFL you must be 21. The exceptions are rifles and shotguns, which require you to be 18.

Since a stripped lower is neither a rifle or a shotgun, you must be 21. Although many dealers will accept a complete lower as a 'rifle' since it has a butt stock.

As of now this is only a federal issue, as the CA DROS system currently only includes 'handguns' and 'longguns'

See if you can get something like this:

http://www.ddsranch.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=697

ke6guj
07-12-2009, 11:02 PM
You can read the clarification here on the 4473, http://www.atf.gov/press/2008press/100308f4473_pt1_aug2008-sample-rev.pdf

Crusader
07-12-2009, 11:02 PM
A stripped lower can be assembled into a pistol AR. In order for a person younger than 21 to purchase a lower, it must already be assembled with a buttstock.

justinjames
07-12-2009, 11:16 PM
do you have a gov link so i can show my ffl if he has any questions??? thanks JJ

In_Flames
07-12-2009, 11:22 PM
Thanks everyone. Can anyone recommend a shop in the Bay Area that sells complete lowers?

lorax3
07-12-2009, 11:23 PM
do you have a gov link so i can show my ffl if he has any questions??? thanks JJ


What do you want see specifically? That you must be 21 to buy a lower?

See ke6guj's post above (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=2762333&postcount=8).

You cannot get more 'government' than the BATFE website.

justinjames
07-12-2009, 11:49 PM
What do you want see specifically? That you must be 21 to buy a lower?

See ke6guj's post above (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=2762333&postcount=8).

You cannot get more 'government' than the BATFE website.

specifically to show that if a stock is installed, it is considered a rifle, thanks

aplinker
07-13-2009, 12:18 AM
specifically to show that if a stock is installed, it is considered a rifle, thanks

It would be.

The biggest complication is that the shop can't do this without a manufacturing FFL and you can't do it to a lower that doesn't belong to you.

Your best bet is to buy PPT or have a parent buy for you, then give you it.

luckystrike
07-13-2009, 10:20 AM
its because you "might try to turn it into an AR pistol" -_-

lorax3
07-13-2009, 10:28 AM
specifically to show that if a stock is installed, it is considered a rifle, thanks

Also see

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/070709openletter.pdf

Josh3239
07-13-2009, 10:47 AM
its because you "might try to turn it into an AR pistol" -_-

No. In CA, you cannot just turn a lower you DROSed into a pistol. It doesn't work like that. While the federal form 4473 allows a spot for "receiver/frame", the CA DOJ only has rifle or pistol categorys and unless you are planning to submit your lower receiver to the DOJ for safe handgun testing, your dealer must mark the "rifle" category.

If you build an AR pistol out of a lower you DROSed from your dealer, unless it was DROSed as a pistol, you will have created a SBR in CA. The feds won't care because you followed their process, but CA will because it would have be DROSed as a rifle in their eyes. This is one of the reasons why, when people import AR pistols that they do the entire pistol with the single shot conversion.

aplinker
07-13-2009, 10:58 AM
No. In CA, you cannot just turn a lower you DROSed into a pistol. It doesn't work like that. While the federal form 4473 allows a spot for "receiver/frame", the CA DOJ only has rifle or pistol categorys and unless you are planning to submit your lower receiver to the DOJ for safe handgun testing, your dealer must mark the "rifle" category.

If you build an AR pistol out of a lower you DROSed from your dealer, unless it was DROSed as a pistol, you will have created a SBR in CA. The feds won't care because you followed their process, but CA will because it would have be DROSed as a rifle in their eyes. This is one of the reasons why, when people import AR pistols that they do the entire pistol with the single shot conversion.

It's actually marked "long gun."

You're also speculating on the 2nd half. It's untested territory and there are arguments you could PPT an unbuilt lower as a pistol, but I'm not going there.

stix213
07-13-2009, 12:44 PM
No. In CA, you cannot just turn a lower you DROSed into a pistol. It doesn't work like that. While the federal form 4473 allows a spot for "receiver/frame", the CA DOJ only has rifle or pistol categorys and unless you are planning to submit your lower receiver to the DOJ for safe handgun testing, your dealer must mark the "rifle" category.

If you build an AR pistol out of a lower you DROSed from your dealer, unless it was DROSed as a pistol, you will have created a SBR in CA. The feds won't care because you followed their process, but CA will because it would have be DROSed as a rifle in their eyes. This is one of the reasons why, when people import AR pistols that they do the entire pistol with the single shot conversion.

I think he meant because a youngster can physically turn an AR lower into a pistol, not legally. California law doesn't alter the laws of physics.

shark92651
07-13-2009, 1:01 PM
I wanted to build an AR-15, but apparently I can't buy a OLL?(I'm 19)
http://riflegear.com/p-574-lmt-defender-lower-with-collapsing-stock-and-standard-trigger.aspx

"Federal law requires that you be 21 years or age or older to purchase a stripped receiver or frame. If a frame or receiver can only be made into a long gun (rifle or shotgun), it is still a frame or receiver not a handgun or long gun. However, they still are "firearms" by definition, and subject to the same GCA limitations as any other firearms. See Section 921(a)(3)(b). 18 U.S.C. Section 922(b)(1) makes it unlawful for a licensee to sell any firearm other than a shotgun or rifle to any person under the age of 21."

So the only way for me to get an AR-15 is to buy a fully assembled one? :(

Flames,

That particular part is a complete LMT lower - you can DROS that at 18 as a long gun. The 21 year restriction is on a stripped lower. If you want that lower, we can transfer it to an FFL in your area.

aplinker
07-13-2009, 1:11 PM
Flames,

That particular part is a complete LMT lower - you can DROS that at 18 as a long gun. The 21 year restriction is on a stripped lower. If you want that lower, we can transfer it to an FFL in your area.

good catch - that is GTG.

That website has some crappy, crazy long links. Someone should fix that. :D

Good people there. Head down and start your DROS.

Futurecollector
07-13-2009, 1:23 PM
ahhhh I remember the good ole days.... 9 months ago lol :43:

GearHead
07-13-2009, 2:14 PM
Yeah I ended up ordering a complete lower from DD's on saturday....he shipped it today.

Only a few months till these shenanigans will be a thing of the past for me!