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JDub
04-22-2005, 6:51 PM
Long time lurker...first time poster. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

After comparing the M1A and FAL options out there, I've finally decided to put together an FAL. Love the M1A and shoot a Garand all the time, but the FAL just feels better in the hand. I've been over the FALFILES.com and searched through this site and I think I know what I need.

All I need now is a source for the receiver in the San Jose area. Anybody have an Imbel or Coonan receiver for sale? Any shops in the area worth dealing with? Saw 3 or 4 on the table up in Reno, but I just can't bring myself break even stupid laws http://www.calguns.net/banghead.gif so I just stuck with the curios (C&R FFL).

JDub

bu-bye
04-22-2005, 7:53 PM
I saw two come in at Markleys in Watsonville about 50 days ago. I know one got bought right away but not sure if they still have the other. Any gun shop should be able to order one for you. Like Ted said your best bet is to search the net for the best deal on a lower and find a cheap dealer to do the trade. Keep us posted on your build.

Leo762
04-22-2005, 9:34 PM
you arent too far away form Entreprise arms - they make FAL recivers. i dont know if they sell direct if you come in but their prices are pretty decent.

C.G.
04-22-2005, 11:33 PM
You just missed a group buy for Imbel at falfiles, closed yesterday. They now have one for Enterprise receivers, no markings.

-hanko
04-23-2005, 9:30 AM
Check Dealer's Warehouse in Modesto www.tdwsales.com (http://www.tdwsales.com); worth the drive if they take walk-ins. They have Imbel type iii's advertised, but currently out of stock, I believe. Quality & price are both a lot better than anything from Enterprise.

-hanko

icormba
04-23-2005, 12:12 PM
I have 2 Imbels on order and my buddy has 1 on order with Martin at Irvington Arms (Fremont). Maybe you can check with him to see if he could add you to the same order? I know everyone has been out for the past 1-2 months.

Turbinator
04-23-2005, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by Leo762:
you arent too far away form Entreprise arms - they make FAL recivers. i dont know if they sell direct if you come in but their prices are pretty decent.

If I'm not mistaken, Entreprise Arms is in Irvine.. He's in San Jose. Not too far if you're getting something shipped, but quite a drive if he wanted to stop by for an afternoon outing.

Turby

C.G.
04-23-2005, 6:07 PM
I saw two come in at Markleys in Watsonville about 50 days ago. I know one got bought right away but not sure if they still have the other. Any gun shop should be able to order one for you. Like Ted said your best bet is to search the net for the best deal on a lower and find a cheap dealer to do the trade. Keep us posted on your build.
Stopped by there today, they do not have any.

Sharnhorst
04-23-2005, 10:38 PM
It might be awhile, seems if you dident get in on the group buy you *** out. If you do find one be ready to give an arm and aleg for one, i should know, im missing an arm and a leg. Even if you do get a receiver, you will need even more luck and money to find a HTS set to comply. http://www.calguns.net/banghead.gif

JDub
04-24-2005, 6:21 PM
Thanks for all the input guys. I'll just have to call around. The guy I used to work with moves on, so I'll just have to fins someone else who wants my business. Half the time I think the local shops just don't want to sell anything. there are more shops out there that I just won't do business with then I care to remember (Target Masters, Sportsmens Supply...)

Guess I'll give Martin @ Irvington a call - at least he seems personable on-line.

JDub

Turbinator
04-24-2005, 7:18 PM
Martin is indeed very nice. Met him in person at his shop. Based on his personality alone, I highly recommend him. I am planning my next purchase to be through Irvington Arms.

Turby

bwiese
04-24-2005, 8:21 PM
Various comments to various posts above...

Leo762 wrote
you arent too far away form Entreprise Arms - they make FAL recivers. i dont know if they sell direct if you come in but their prices are pretty decent

Entreprise Arms is, I believe, in Irwindale (LA area). And I would not ever compare their receivers to an Imbel or DSA or even Coonan.

Scharnhorst wrote:
If you do find one be ready to give an arm and aleg for one, i should know, im missing an arm and a leg. Even if you do get a receiver, you will need even more luck and money to find a HTS set to comply

Not true. The Dealer Warehouse in Modesto offers them (Imbels) for $199 plus whatever your FFL charges, plus DROS fee.

And hammer/trigger/sear kits are easily available via mail order from DSA (DS Arms). TAPCO also offers similar parts from First Son Ent., though I prefer DSA.

7 US mfgd compliance parts for a FAL clone. My preference:
- hammer, trigger, sear (counts as 3)
- pistol grip + buttstock + handguards (3)
- US-mfg flash hider or muzzle brake.

You'll also need a 10rd mag and the fixed mag adapter and stripper-clip top cover from DSA in order to make a CA-legal 'CaliFAL'.

Slightly harder to find are good overall STG58 parts sets - sometimes you have to buy a couple kits and pick the best parts.

GunThings.COM is a great place for FAL parts.

And I (and Ted and Hernando) all recommend Rich Saunders at CGW (Century Gun Works) in Gardnerville, NV as a FAL smith. Gunplumber in Arizona (Ariz. Response Systems) is also top notch.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

Bill Wiese
San Jose

Leo762
04-24-2005, 8:53 PM
Originally posted by bwiese:

Slightly harder to find are good overall STG58 parts sets - sometimes you have to buy a couple kits and pick the best parts.

GunThings.COM is a great place for FAL parts.


Bill Wiese
San Jose

Bill Wiese
San Jose

i agree with everything you said except this, STG kits are probably the best condition and quality kits you can find, the R1A1s are beat up really bad, some have nice bores but some have really bad and worn out ones. DSA promises very good to excellent condition kits and its what i got when i ordered one form them. now there arent many completely unissued kits left but still the STG ones are the best bet out there. (unless you buy from private sale ofcourse)

Sharnhorst
04-25-2005, 5:18 AM
And hammer/trigger/sear kits are easily available via mail order from DSA (DS Arms). TAPCO also offers similar parts from First Son Ent., though I prefer DSA.

Not true, DSA is out of the HTS set untill june or july, (i know, Im on back order), as for tapco they only have the hammer and sear, they dont even list the trigger in us parts, if someone know where to find the HTS sets(metric) please by all means let me know.

imported_MaxQ
04-25-2005, 8:34 AM
Sharnhorst - Keep your eye on the FALFiles marketplace. US made HTS sets come up regularly. Last month, Gunplumber - arizonaresponsesystems.com sold a bunch of metric FSE HTS sets for about $60/set. Gunthings and others have had them too.

Also, don't forget that the two cheapest US compliance parts are a US made follower and base plate. If you're building a fixed mag FAL, you only need one of each, so that's about 3 bucks for two US parts! I think falconarms.com (griffon5 at FAL Files) is a good source.

bwiese
04-25-2005, 8:58 AM
MaxQ ...

...don't forget that the two cheapest US compliance parts are a US made follower and base plate. If you're building a fixed mag FAL, you only need one of each, so that's about 3 bucks for two US parts! I think falconarms.com (griffon5 at FAL Files) is a good source.

Great point!!!

This is esp important for folks building CaliFALs since the magazine can't change and keeps the 'compliance parts' cost down.

[ BTW: Does anyone know of the performance & reliability of this US made follower in a 10rd magazine? Does anyone know if the floorplate will fit a 10rd mag - it seems the 10rd FAL mags I've seen have the floorplate sloping at a different angle than those on std FAL mags, which would imply a different length floorplate. This should be looked into! ]

Since my FALs are reg'd as AWs and I don't have a fixed mag restriction, I felt it was important for me to not be in violation of Sec 922(r) if I ever inserted a foreign-made mag, and I didn't want to convert all my 25+ FAL mags. (Given problems with non-USGI AR15 magazines esp in follower/spring dept, I'm loath to change from known good govt issue/OEM mags on other platforms.)

Changing mags is, of course, moot on a CaliFAL.

So, if everything goes OK (functionally) for the 10rd mag for a fixed mag CaliFAL, the simplest US compliance parts setup is/could be:

Use these 6 US-mfgd 'compliance' parts:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI> US mfgd hammer, trigger, sear
<LI> US mfgd follower
<LI> US mfgd floorplate
<LI> US mfgd pistol grip
[/list]
plus ONE of these US-mfgd parts:<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>US mfgd buttstock OR
<LI>US mfgd flash hider/muzzle brake OR
<LI>US mfgd front handguards OR
<LI>US mfgd charging handle OR
<LI>US mfgd gas piston
[/list]

[I'm not a fan of non-OEM gas pistons. I'd rather spend more $$ for another compliance part not in the rifle's main 'system path'.]

And if you have a DSA or Coonan receiver (USA) and/or a US-mfgd barrel, you can take 1 or 2 items off the above list.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

C.G.
04-25-2005, 10:01 AM
Check Dealer's Warehouse in Modesto www.tdwsales.com; (http://www.tdwsales.com;) worth the drive if they take walk-ins. They have Imbel type iii's advertised, but currently out of stock, I believe. Quality & price are both a lot better than anything from Enterprise.
They are $179 from TDW and if you order now you may see it sometime in June (next two shipments already spoken for).

Leo762
04-25-2005, 1:57 PM
Originally posted by bwiese:

[ BTW: Does anyone know of the performance & reliability of this US made follower in a 10rd magazine? Does anyone know if the floorplate will fit a 10rd mag - it seems the 10rd FAL mags I've seen have the floorplate sloping at a different angle than those on std FAL mags, which would imply a different length floorplate. This should be looked into! ]

Bill Wiese
San Jose

they work great! i got the follower from falcon arms and its coated with some super slick stuff (or so they claim) but i had no problems with it other than the regular break-in of the parkerizing (mag)

the floorplates from DSA fit the 10 round mags with no problems and no slop

6172crew
04-26-2005, 9:19 AM
Whats with the STG flash hiders? I hear we have to remove them but doesnt make since to me as ours are fixed mag, is this a Fed law? I like the looks of the stock F/H but have also heard that it doubles as a gernade launcher or some crap.

BTW good idea on the floorplate/follower

bwiese
04-26-2005, 9:27 AM
Leo762 wrote:
they work great! i got the follower from falcon arms and its coated with some super slick stuff (or so they claim) but i had no problems with it other than the regular break-in of the parkerizing (mag)

the floorplates from DSA fit the 10 round mags with no problems and no slop

Good! Always a good idea w/new mags of any type to 'exercise' the follower a hundred times or so with a popsicle stick, etc. If the inside of the mag body is gritty/parkerized, has some finish imperfections, etc. it'll help the follower 'wear in'.

Para.Com wrote:
Whats with the STG flash hiders? I hear we have to remove them but doesnt make since to me as ours are fixed mag, is this a Fed law? I like the looks of the stock F/H but have also heard that it doubles as a gernade launcher or some crap.

I assume you're speaking only of a CaliFAL (fixed mag FAL clone), and not any regular FAL or FAL clone registered as an assault weapon in CA. These registered AWs can have grenade launchers/flash suppressors as there are no longer any Federal issues since 1994 Fed AW ban sunset in Sept 2004. (Before this sunset, only pre-1994 preban "assault rifles" could have flash hiders, etc. if they had detach. mag and pistol grip...) [And if your regular FAL/FAL clone is not registered in CA, you've got bigger problems.]

Both grenade launchers and flash suppressors are considered 'evil features' in California assault weapon law:

PC 12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.
...

THERE IS NO FEDERAL ASSAULT WEAPON LAW ANYMORE. You are only regulated by California AW law, and any peripheral 'importation' issues covered by Sec 922(r) (the "10 or less" imported parts game)

If you have a CaliFAL with a fixed 10rd magazine, it's of course NOT a "semiautomatic centerfire rifle having the capacity to accept a detachable magazine". So you can indeed have the flash hider (which might also be considered a grenade launcher), pistol grip, etc.

Despite the 'sunset' of the 1994 Fed AW Ban, section 922(r) still exists, which regulates importation of non-sporting rifles and determines whether a rifle can be considered imported or domestically made. FAL clones have 16 or 17 key parts, and 10 or less must be foreign made to have the rifle considered 'not imported'. The only issue w/STG flash hiders is that if your existing STG-style FH was in fact a US-mfgd compliance part, you should replace it with another US-mfgd flash hider or muzzle brake, or leave the barrel bare. Or you could compensate by replacing one of the other key foreign parts with another US-mfgd compliance part (pistol grip, barrel, buttstock, charging handle, piston, foreend, hammer, trigger, sear, etc. etc.)

Bill Wiese
San Jose

scorpionusa
04-26-2005, 11:58 AM
Does anyone know if the Para stock assembly http://www.dsarms.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=P120USSET&storeid=1&image=usparakit.gif
would work for CaliFAL interms of functionality and legality?

C.G.
04-26-2005, 12:57 PM
Does anyone know if the Para stock assembly http://www.dsarms.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=P120USSET&storeid=1&image=usparakit.gif
would work for CaliFAL interms of functionality and legality?
The para folding stock looks neat, but you will need a para lower, or modify the lower you have(and that is not easy) from what I've read. Also, you might do a search on falfiles.com, plenty of people don't like it, they say that the re-coil is worse with the para stock. As to the legality, I am sure Bill Wiese will be along shortly to give you the real scoop, but I think that as long as the mag is fixed and the rifle is longer than 26" with the stock folded then you should be legal.

scorpionusa
04-26-2005, 1:39 PM
Originally posted by cg:
The para folding stock looks neat, but you will need a para lower, or modify the lower you have(and that is not easy) from what I've read. Also, you might do a search on falfiles.com, plenty of people don't like it, they say that the re-coil is worse with the para stock. As to the legality, I am sure Bill Wiese will be along shortly to give you the real scoop, but I think that as long as the mag is fixed and the rifle is longer than 26" with the stock folded then you should be legal.

I think the DSA para assbly has all the parts you need for a para Fal, I'm just not sure how it'd work with the fixed mag, or if it'd work at all. I read from falfiles.com that the waiting list for that is pretty long. As for the recoil, here's what they said http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=747b7999c5b83bc0b1124639496ac2a3&threadid=137500&highlight=para+stock

-hanko
04-26-2005, 8:45 PM
Originally posted by scorpionusa:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cg:
The para folding stock looks neat, but you will need a para lower, or modify the lower you have(and that is not easy) from what I've read. Also, you might do a search on falfiles.com, plenty of people don't like it, they say that the re-coil is worse with the para stock. As to the legality, I am sure Bill Wiese will be along shortly to give you the real scoop, but I think that as long as the mag is fixed and the rifle is longer than 26" with the stock folded then you should be legal.

I think the DSA para assbly has all the parts you need for a para Fal, I'm just not sure how it'd work with the fixed mag, or if it'd work at all. I read from falfiles.com that the waiting list for that is pretty long. As for the recoil, here's what they said http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=747b7999c5b83bc0b1124639496ac2a3&threadid=137500&highlight=para+stock </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Recoil is more as the para stock is on a more direct line with the axis of the bore. Having said that, .308's are not even close to what I'd consider to be bothersome recoil.

Problem with assembly for a prk gun would be to find a stripper clip top cover in the para configuration; para's have their recoil springs in the top cover. You could still load through the ejection port but you'd have to manually hold the bolt back during loading.

With a 17-3/8" barrel (one of the standard para lengths), the gun measures 28-15/16" folded. If you're using a naked barrel, I figure on something at least 18-7/16 long to get to the 30" minimum length. If you're threading and adding a muzzle device, you can shorten the barrel to cover the added length of the device.

You'll need to take a cut on the upper receiver to take the projection on the front cover; your other choice is to dremel the projection off the cover...this makes take down & assembly a bit of a biatch.

-hanko

6172crew
04-27-2005, 8:24 AM
Sooo you dont have to get rid of the Fal STG flash hider then? The smith that Im planning on using for my build plans on permantly fixing a comp/ or fake flash hider and taking the one that came with it and getting rid of it. As far as I can tell this will be a Fixed mag so it cant be a AW.

Originally posted by bwiese:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Leo762 wrote:
they work great! i got the follower from falcon arms and its coated with some super slick stuff (or so they claim) but i had no problems with it other than the regular break-in of the parkerizing (mag)

the floorplates from DSA fit the 10 round mags with no problems and no slop

Good! Always a good idea w/new mags of any type to 'exercise' the follower a hundred times or so with a popsicle stick, etc. If the inside of the mag body is gritty/parkerized, has some finish imperfections, etc. it'll help the follower 'wear in'.

Para.Com wrote:
Whats with the STG flash hiders? I hear we have to remove them but doesnt make since to me as ours are fixed mag, is this a Fed law? I like the looks of the stock F/H but have also heard that it doubles as a gernade launcher or some crap.

I assume you're speaking only of a CaliFAL (fixed mag FAL clone), and not any regular FAL or FAL clone registered as an assault weapon in CA. These registered AWs can have grenade launchers/flash suppressors as there are no longer any Federal issues since 1994 Fed AW ban sunset in Sept 2004. (Before this sunset, only pre-1994 preban "assault rifles" could have flash hiders, etc. if they had detach. mag and pistol grip...) [And if your regular FAL/FAL clone is not registered in CA, you've got bigger problems.]

Both grenade launchers and flash suppressors are considered 'evil features' in California assault weapon law:

PC 12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.
...

THERE IS NO FEDERAL ASSAULT WEAPON LAW ANYMORE. You are only regulated by California AW law, and any peripheral 'importation' issues covered by Sec 922(r) (the "10 or less" imported parts game)

If you have a CaliFAL with a fixed 10rd magazine, it's of course NOT a "semiautomatic centerfire rifle having the capacity to accept a detachable magazine". So you can indeed have the flash hider (which might also be considered a grenade launcher), pistol grip, etc.

Despite the 'sunset' of the 1994 Fed AW Ban, section 922(r) still exists, which regulates importation of non-sporting rifles and determines whether a rifle can be considered imported or domestically made. FAL clones have 16 or 17 key parts, and 10 or less must be foreign made to have the rifle considered 'not imported'. The only issue w/STG flash hiders is that if your existing STG-style FH was in fact a US-mfgd compliance part, you should replace it with another US-mfgd flash hider or muzzle brake, or leave the barrel bare. Or you could compensate by replacing one of the other key foreign parts with another US-mfgd compliance part (pistol grip, barrel, buttstock, charging handle, piston, foreend, hammer, trigger, sear, etc. etc.)

Bill Wiese
San Jose </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Leo762
04-27-2005, 1:32 PM
para, why is he going to permanently attach it? i dont think there are any lawas in cali about threaded barrels if you a fixed mag

stillbigmac
04-27-2005, 2:22 PM
You can have a threaded barrel and a detachable mag in CA.

The new Keltec SU16 CA has a threaded barrel http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

bwiese
04-27-2005, 2:56 PM
Para.COM writes:
Sooo you dont have to get rid of the Fal STG flash hider then? The smith that Im planning on using for my build plans on permantly fixing a comp/ or fake flash hider and taking the one that came with it and getting rid of it. As far as I can tell this will be a Fixed mag so it cant be a AW.

Who is your smith? Apparently he doesn't know the CA law(s) or that the Fed AW law expired.

Your CaliFAL does NOT have a detachable mag. So it can indeed have STG flash hider. And the flash hider does not have to be pinned/welded.

[But for 308 FAL I would recommend a muzzle brake over flash hider - easier to shoot fairly rapidly on 2nd and subsequent shots... muzzle brake works great on my AR10.]

And yes any rifle in CA can have a threaded barrel - threaded barrels are not banned by ANY law now, Fed or CA. For example, right now M1As are sold with a detachable mag and a threaded barrel w/muzzle brake - it's just that there's no flash hider on those sold in CA.

(The only time you need pinned/welded muzzle device is if orig barrel is under 16" and you need to bring it up to 16" to not be considered an NFA SBR.)

Bill Wiese
San Jose

6172crew
04-27-2005, 7:28 PM
Bwiese, I found a guy in Martinez (kevin smith) who has all the tool to build at a reasonable price. For some reason he doesnt want to leave the flash hider alone, I will talk with him about it tomarrow.

I also talked w/ the DOJ and asked them about it, they said they would send me a letter saying its ok to have a flash hider if the mag is fixed but Im not sure the smith will be happy with a vague letter. I do know that everytime I have called them I feel as though I havent received a straight answer. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Sharnhorst
04-27-2005, 8:41 PM
Way togo buttdart.

bwiese
04-27-2005, 10:31 PM
Para.Com...

I found a guy in Martinez (kevin smith) who has all the tool to build at a reasonable price. For some reason he doesnt want to leave the flash hider alone, I will talk with him about it tomarrow.

If your gunsmith doesn't know the Fed AWB has expired, that CA law doesn't ban flash hiders if there's not a detachable magazine, and he can't manage read PC 12275-12276 on the web, then I wouldn't do business with him. He's a smith, he's not supposed to be clueless - sounds like he may not have built many (any?) FALs, either.

Ted, XSquid and I all recommend Rich Saunders at Century Gunworks (http://www.CGWguns.net (http://www.CGWguns.com)) in Gardnerville, NV. The guy's an artist. Don't try to save a few nickels if you want a nice gun.



Bill Wiese
San Jose

Leo762
04-27-2005, 10:55 PM
its http://www.cgwguns.com/ http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif - i never had him do any of my guns but im thinking about on my next since everyone is really reccomending him.

para, if you want a more local dealer there is a guy in sac (about an hour drive from you) that does it, he did my FAL last time, he is a really good, friendly guy and does the job really quickly (can have it done same day or next day) - he knew the law and didnt trip about anything - the name is dealer showroom, if you look in yahoo yellopages for gunsmith in sac hes right there.

pidooma
04-28-2005, 8:36 AM
Originally posted by bwiese:
Para.Com...

Ted, XSquid and I all recommend Rich Saunders at Century Gunworks (http://www.CGWguns.net) in Gardnerville, NV. The guy's an artist. Don't try to save a few nickels if you want a nice gun.



You can add my name to the list of those that recommend Rich at Century Gunworks. He did a great job on my FAL.

icormba
04-28-2005, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by bwiese:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Para.COM writes:
Sooo you dont have to get rid of the Fal STG flash hider then? The smith that Im planning on using for my build plans on permantly fixing a comp/ or fake flash hider and taking the one that came with it and getting rid of it. As far as I can tell this will be a Fixed mag so it cant be a AW.

Who is your smith? Apparently he doesn't know the CA law(s) or that the Fed AW law expired.

Your CaliFAL does NOT have a detachable mag. So it can indeed have STG flash hider. And the flash hider does not have to be pinned/welded.
Bill Wiese
San Jose </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

very very confused now! The STG flash hider is a combo device flash hider, wire cutter, grenade launcher. I've been told it is ok because it is a combo device and I've been told it's not ok because it can launch grenades.

But if the 2nd statement is true... wouldn't a M4 AR15 upper on a FAB 10 not be legal as well?

stillbigmac
04-29-2005, 6:59 AM
I lean to the very conservative side. I pitched my Belgian combination muzzle end device. It had the gas ring built right into it for launching grenades. If youve ever had a DOJ complience inspection you'd know why I'm so conservative.

As to the M4 upper on a fab10. That would be perfectly legal, assuming we are talking about the 16in M4 clone and not the real deal. The M4 barrel is grenade launcher cut. This would permit the underbarrel mounting of a flare or grenade launcher not the direct launching of grenades on the rifle.

icormba
04-29-2005, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by stillbigbac:

As to the M4 upper on a fab10. That would be perfectly legal, assuming we are talking about the 16in M4 clone and not the real deal. The M4 barrel is grenade launcher cut. This would permit the underbarrel mounting of a flare or grenade launcher not the direct launching of grenades on the rifle.

Duh! I knew that http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif, yeah right http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

p.s. big mac... those FAL receivers in yet http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

stillbigmac
04-30-2005, 9:08 AM
I should be getting the first 4 Tuesday.

I will see another 4 or 5 in a couple more weeks. I just called the first 4 guys letting them know that they are finally coming.

bwiese
04-30-2005, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by stillbigbac:
As to the M4 upper on a fab10. That would be perfectly legal, assuming we are talking about the 16in M4 clone and not the real deal. The M4 barrel is grenade launcher cut. This would permit the underbarrel mounting of a flare or grenade launcher not the direct launching of grenades on the rifle.

True M4 barrels are 14.5" long and would only ever be legal if a muzzle device were pinned & welded (i.e, permanently affixed to bbl) to make it 16" long and stay out of SBR territory.

The 'step' or 'cut' or 'groove' in an M4-style barrel is NOT a grenade launcher in & of itself. It is just for the mounting of one. As such - since it isn't a grenade launcher - 16" M4 bbls/uppers are legal on any rifle in CA or USA.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

JDub
05-02-2005, 8:08 AM
Originally posted by stillbigbac:
I should be getting the first 4 Tuesday.

I will see another 4 or 5 in a couple more weeks. I just called the first 4 guys letting them know that they are finally coming.

Hey Big Mac - are all of the second set of receivers spoken for already? Either way I'll have to figure out how to get up to you and get my name on the list. I live and work in the SJ/Cupertino area so getting up to Fremont during the week is a PITA, and my next few weekends are packed. Oh well, I'll figure something out.

BTW - what the hell do I need to bring along to complete the paperwork these days? I have a safe so I can avoid the necessary gunlock purchase. Do I need some proof of residency?

JDUB

50 Freak
05-02-2005, 10:41 PM
Hey guys, I can tell you from experience that with the para stock versus the traditional stock. The para doesn't really recoil more. You just feel it more. And the fact you are doing a check weld to a thin pipe (the buttstock) doesn't really feel comfortable on your face.

I can do a hundred rounds on the para before the cheek starts hurting. With the regular stock, not a problem with a hundred or a few hundred rounds.

Now back to the original question. Who sells FAL uppers? I'm thinking of doing a HB config

Leo762
05-03-2005, 3:06 PM
i... cant....stop...looking...at...your....avatar...50F reak

scorpionusa
05-03-2005, 4:35 PM
Hey guys, I can tell you from experience that with the para stock versus the traditional stock. The para doesn't really recoil more. You just feel it more. And the fact you are doing a check weld to a thin pipe (the buttstock) doesn't really feel comfortable on your face.

That's what I thought. I don't see why a para stock would have more recoil than regular stock since the gun uses the same cartridge. What may have effect on recoil is barrel length, muzzle brake, and total weight of the gun. The skeletal para stock maybe uncomfortable to shoot for long duration, but you can get a cheekpad to reduce the roughness. I just ordered the para kit from DSA but they said it's backordered for at least 6 mos. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

i... cant....stop...looking...at...your....avatar...50F reak
me too, it is quite hypnotic http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

50 Freak
05-03-2005, 5:24 PM
quote:
i... cant....stop...looking...at...your....avatar...50F reak


me too, it is quite hypnotic Eek

heheheheheh

I ordered my DS para stock back in April of 03 and got it somewhere around month ago. Well worth it if you ask me.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/JustaBlokeAnywhere/FAL007.jpg

I love just showing off my baby.

scorpionusa
05-03-2005, 5:38 PM
I love just showing off my baby. It's deserved to be shown off http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif How long is that barrel? It's a preban right? I suppose it can have all the evil features if it's a registered AW?

50 Freak
05-03-2005, 6:11 PM
16 inch barrel, 1.5 inch muzzle brake. Definitely registered as an AW so I can put anything I want on that baby. Maybe one day, I'll put her in her "sniper" config and post pics. She's a quick change barrel system ya know.

Leo762
05-03-2005, 10:14 PM
how does the quick change barrel system work man? i heard about them but have no idea how.

50 Freak
05-03-2005, 11:50 PM
Go here young grasshopper

http://freeworldsrightarm.com/cgi-bin/store/agora.cgi/agora.cgi?cart_id=8774121.29925*AV6sX1&p_id=00040&xm=on&ppinc=big

Rumpled
05-04-2005, 1:00 PM
JDub,
If you really want a receiver, call directly to Delaers Warehouse and order one. Tell them BigMac (or your favorite choice) is your FFL and they'll ship it to them. I have one inbound right now to my FFL.

scorpionusa
05-04-2005, 8:20 PM
50 Freak, where did you get that front end with the short handguard? I want to build a para fal with the carbine look (short handguard with 16" barrel + brake to make up the 30" total length required with folding stock)

50 Freak
05-04-2005, 9:34 PM
DS Arms makes them for their short gas system FALs, and they charge something like 50 bucks for the handguards alone.

But I lucked out and got a set of HGs off of eBay for $15.

Meeper will also take a standard barrel and move the gas block back to make the short handguard config you see on my para. He usually only charges like $50 bucks extra to do it and throws in a set of HG's to boot. I highly recommend his work.