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View Full Version : A warning in case someone is as dumb as my brother in law.


what2be
07-11-2009, 12:23 PM
Just got off the phone with my sister, her husband (who ive wrote on here about before when he was physically abusing my 4 year old newphew)

Hopefully nobody on here makes these kind of bad decisions, but just in case, heres what can happen when you exhibit bad judgement.

My brother in law and his dad decided to go shooting down in their field (he lives in mendocino on some land, they have a small shooting range below their house) My 4 year old nephew went with them to watch.

At some point my brother in law decided to let his 4 year old son shoot the 20 gauge shotgun. (with dad helping of course)..You can probably guess what happens next, the gun goes off, the hammer on the shotgun comes back and goes right through the childs eye.

He just got out of surgery yesterday, they may have to take him to San Fran childrens hospital and sedate him again to look at how the surgery went. In the mean time, the child cant run, jump or play for 3 months. in other words, he has to stay still.

They have no idea if he will ever regain vision out of his eye again.

So, besides the fact that the ramifications from his bad descision making is more anti gun material for the anti's, the bigger picture is that this 4 year old child may never see again from one of his eyes due to SERIOUSLY bad judgement on his dads part.

Hopefully there is a huge lesson to be learned here, im sure there are alot of calgunners with children, but use some common sense and make sure your child is old enough to handle a firearm before you put it in his hands, whether your helping him hold the gun or not.

Personally, my son is 6, and he has yet to even shoot a bb gun. Maybe in the next year or two I will supervise him and let him shoot a .22, but I hope nobody thinks its okay for a 4year old to be shooting ANY firearm.

And in case your wondering, yes, I called my brother in law up and chewed his *** from here to next sunday. I asked him if maybe next week he was going to make more bad decisions and take his kid scuba diving. I know he didnt mean to hurt his kid, but what kind of person would think that it would be okay to let a 4 year old shoot a 20 ga shotgun?

And whats ever worse, is why didnt my brother in laws dad, who was there, tell him that it would be a stupid idea to let the kid shoot the shotgun? Does anybody still have common sense in the world?

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm154/what2be/eli.jpg

cgseanp1
07-11-2009, 12:41 PM
I'm confused. How did the hammer on the shotgun go through his eye? What kind of shotgun ?

Greg-Dawg
07-11-2009, 12:53 PM
That just sucks. Some shouldn't have guns...

joepamjohn
07-11-2009, 1:04 PM
Hopefully all will go well,the Boy will heal up and be OK. The good thing is he is young and they have a tendency to heal much better than us old farts.

cousinkix1953
07-11-2009, 1:07 PM
And in case your wondering, yes, I called my brother in law up and chewed his *** from here to next sunday. I asked him if maybe next week he was going to make more bad decisions and take his kid scuba diving. I know he didnt mean to hurt his kid, but what kind of person would think that it would be okay to let a 4 year old shoot a 20 ga shotgun?

And whats ever worse, is why didnt my brother in laws dad, who was there, tell him that it would be a stupid idea to let the kid shoot the shotgun? Does anybody still have common sense in the world?

Good for you. And no safety goggles I'll bet.

How about a moron, who lets his 4 year old shoot a 12 guage shotgun? My vintage gas operated Winchester model 50 12 guage recoils little more than a .22 caliber rifle, but is too big for kids to handle anyway...

SuperSet
07-11-2009, 1:11 PM
YouTube is filled with kids shooting their parents boom sticks, regardless of the outcome. They're not my kids but I still cringe when I see it.

.22guy
07-11-2009, 1:14 PM
That sucks, I hope it works out OK for the little guy.

rg_1111@yahoo.com
07-11-2009, 1:27 PM
Man I hope he fully recovers. Tell your Brother in law to make sure to always wear safety glasses and hearing protection. For him and others.

audihenry
07-11-2009, 1:29 PM
Sorry to hear about the kid, but I'm confused how a hammer flying out into the kid's eye had anything to do with the kid shooting it rather than a defective gun.

What kind of a shotgun was it?

MiguelS
07-11-2009, 1:29 PM
I believe your brother in law will be getting a visit from CPS.

ke6guj
07-11-2009, 1:33 PM
I'm confused. How did the hammer on the shotgun go through his eye? What kind of shotgun ?

Sorry to hear about the kid, but I'm confused how a hammer flying out into the kid's eye had anything to do with the kid shooting it rather than a defective gun.

What kind of a shotgun was it?
it sounds like the kid might not have been holding the stock in his shoulder, maybe under his armpit, and it recoiled back and hit him in the eye, sort of like scope eye. I don't think the OP is saying that the hammer flew off the back of the SG.

jtv3062
07-11-2009, 1:38 PM
I hope your he's able to fully recover.

what2be
07-11-2009, 3:42 PM
Sorry to hear about the kid, but I'm confused how a hammer flying out into the kid's eye had anything to do with the kid shooting it rather than a defective gun.

What kind of a shotgun was it?

the gun is still fully functional. The recoil caused the gun to come back and the hammer went into his eye. I have no idea what load he was shooting, or how he was handling the gun, but im betting it was under his armpit since I doubt a 4 year old could shoulder a shotgun and still pull the trigger. Im guessing it was a over/under or a side x side where the hammer(s) are exposed.

norcal77
07-11-2009, 3:46 PM
This just sucks...I hope the kid regains his vision.

audihenry
07-11-2009, 3:51 PM
the gun is still fully functional. The recoil caused the gun to come back and the hammer went into his eye. I have no idea what load he was shooting, or how he was handling the gun, but im betting it was under his armpit since I doubt a 4 year old could shoulder a shotgun and still pull the trigger. Im guessing it was a over/under or a side x side where the hammer(s) are exposed.

****, that sounds painful. :(

RobG
07-11-2009, 4:09 PM
Just got off the phone with my sister, her husband (who ive wrote on here about before when he was physically abusing my 4 year old newphew)



And in case your wondering, yes, I called my brother in law up and chewed his *** from here to next sunday. I asked him if maybe next week he was going to make more bad decisions and take his kid scuba diving. I know he didnt mean to hurt his kid, but what kind of person would think that it would be okay to let a 4 year old shoot a 20 ga shotgun?




Are you speaking about the same child? How do you know it wasn't intentional and had nothing to do with shooting the gun? Could be a BS story to cover abuse.

berto
07-11-2009, 5:02 PM
Written test, background check, and ten day wait for procreation/parenting?

If only the sense deficient idiots would hurt themselves instead of the people around them.

BlackDrop50
07-11-2009, 5:04 PM
Reading that story made me sick to my stomach. But the sad truth of the world is there are a lot of dumb people out there. That kid's life is RUINED FOREVER! He will most likely be disabled, won't be able to play sports as good, can't shoot as good now. His chances with girls are hurt.. as well as some jobs.

First of all, why would he take the kid to go shooting? Most kids that young shouldn't be around dangerous things. 2nd, no eye protection is even more dumb.


Hopefully he gets better. He has a chance as he's still young..

SCMA-1
07-11-2009, 5:52 PM
Nothing makes me go more ballistic than child abuse.:mad: The father was stupid and selfish to allow his son to attempt to do such a thing. Who's benefit was it for, the 4 year old or for the stupid father? I'm gonna shut my mouth (keyboard) now and fume on my own because anything else I may type here on this forum may get me in trouble.:mad: I'm done here.

SCMA-1

Maltese Falcon
07-11-2009, 6:24 PM
....Let's hope for a full recovery. Our family's prayers are with the little guy.

pdq_wizzard
07-11-2009, 6:36 PM
4 years old is a little young for a bb gun let alone a 20gage shotgun,

I started my son out young but not quite that young,

My wife and I will pray for him to make a full recovery.

Z ME FLY
07-11-2009, 8:32 PM
I hope the kids makes a full recovery. 4 is way to young for shooting guns. Probably 7 or 8 and they can shoot a .22 or bb guns. Only if he was wearing some glasses then maybe things would have been ok. Let us know how things turn out... Hopefully for the better.

what2be
07-11-2009, 8:35 PM
Are you speaking about the same child? How do you know it wasn't intentional and had nothing to do with shooting the gun? Could be a BS story to cover abuse.

My sister was home at the time, the field they were shooting in is about 100-150 yards below the house. I have no reason to believe it was anything other than what she told me, especially since his dad was down there shooting as well.

Reading that story made me sick to my stomach. But the sad truth of the world is there are a lot of dumb people out there. That kid's life is RUINED FOREVER! He will most likely be disabled, won't be able to play sports as good, can't shoot as good now. His chances with girls are hurt.. as well as some jobs.

First of all, why would he take the kid to go shooting? Most kids that young shouldn't be around dangerous things. 2nd, no eye protection is even more dumb.


Hopefully he gets better. He has a chance as he's still young..

Im sure he will get better, but like you said, to what extent? His depth perception is most likely ruined forever, which like you said limits or prohibits you in things like sports, driving, jobs, flying a plane, shooting, military service, etc. Ill know more monday, but it just makes me mad to think about it.

locosway
07-11-2009, 9:52 PM
That really sucks... That's my biggest fear with my children. When they're little I'm always worried they are going to hit their eye on a corner or something.

I hate it when kids get hurt, they're the innocent ones. There should be a license for having kids.

cousinkix1953
07-12-2009, 4:38 AM
the gun is still fully functional. The recoil caused the gun to come back and the hammer went into his eye. I have no idea what load he was shooting, or how he was handling the gun, but im betting it was under his armpit since I doubt a 4 year old could shoulder a shotgun and still pull the trigger. Im guessing it was a over/under or a side x side where the hammer(s) are exposed.
They do make shorter stocks for the kids who shoot SS shoguns. I have and old Savage/Stevens .410 that could use an adult sized buttstock...

vega
07-12-2009, 8:02 AM
And whats ever worse, is why didnt my brother in laws dad, who was there, tell him that it would be a stupid idea to let the kid shoot the shotgun? Does anybody still have common sense in the world?
Probably as stupid as your brother-in-law.

I hope your nephew recovers soon and regain vision with his eye.

Sam1
07-12-2009, 8:41 AM
sorry to hear about that :( it could have been worse

cortayack
07-12-2009, 10:18 AM
i pray for a full recovery......Also common sense is leaving this world very quickly.......

spectr17
07-12-2009, 10:31 AM
Sorry to hear about your nephew, hope the little guy is going to be okay.

I see many dads who want junior to "Be a Man" and shoot dad's gun when junior is WAY to young for this BS. If you see this nonsense please step up and say something before the kid gets hurt or when he falls down with the gun after the shot he shoots someone else.

More of this stupidity. Notice the muzzle control after the shot.

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Sam .223
07-12-2009, 11:33 AM
And whats ever worse, is why didnt my brother in laws dad, who was there, tell him that it would be a stupid idea to let the kid shoot the shotgun? Does anybody still have common sense in the world?

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm154/what2be/eli.jpg

the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. i feel for you, i wouldn't let a 4 yr old shoot without any protection and definately not a shot gun.

fatass
07-12-2009, 11:54 AM
kid would have been injured sooner or later with such parenting

Dr. Peter Venkman
07-12-2009, 12:03 PM
Why is your sister still with this moron?

eccvets
07-12-2009, 12:03 PM
I guess thats why god gave us two eyes. Sucks that he might loose one of them at such a young age due to stupidity! Meh it happens.

professorhard
07-12-2009, 12:13 PM
Poor guy I hope he regains his vision. Being so young he has alot of time for massive advancements in the medical field that would help him regain vision even years down the road. I wish him the best of luck.

rabagley
07-12-2009, 3:29 PM
Wow, that is some spectacularly bad judgement. Safety goggles, smaller gun, waiting another couple of years, any of a number of things would have prevented this tragedy.

One aside, about the earliest age that a child should shoot a gun. I'm hoping my daughter will be interested in shooting by the age of five or so (not very far from four). I'm cutting down the stock and barrel on a Marlin 39A (lever action .22) so that it will have a comfortable pull and sight picture for her up to about age ten.

On shotguns, I have very little interest myself, so that subject will only come up if she independently develops an interest in competition or hunting waterfowl. A 20 gauge seems like WAY too much gun for a little kid.

n556
07-12-2009, 9:05 PM
the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. i feel for you, i wouldn't let a 4 yr old shoot without any protection and definately not a shot gun.

Let me add that I do believe shooting a handgun or anything short could be worse as it's so easy for the barrel to be pointed in the wrong direction.

I have 3 kids... the oldest is turning 10 and I have yet to let them shoot anything. I just can't do it. I do not think it's safe. I basically haven't shot or been into my weapons for 9 years.

I know this incident sounds bad but lets look at the bright side... hopefully the father learns a lesson and nothing worse happens in the future and most importantly, the kid is alive and has one good eye!!!!!!!!!

devildog999
07-12-2009, 10:25 PM
That is really screwed up. those are the ones that make us look bad

cousinkix1953
07-13-2009, 1:56 AM
Why is your sister still with this moron?
Probably because he has a better job and makes more money to feed the family. Otherwise she would be wise to get away from this reckless husband.

The OM let me start shooting his guns, when I was around 6 or 7 years old. We started with his .22 caliber rifle, which I still have. Then is was a .410 shotgun and a .38 Special a couple of years later. We owned centerfire rifles by the time I was around 12-14...

Dr. Peter Venkman
07-13-2009, 2:13 AM
Probably because he has a better job and makes more money to feed the family. Otherwise she would be wise to get away from this reckless husband.

Not worth the DV and ruining her kid's eyesight. :mad:

Hit that mother****er for me.

cousinkix1953
07-13-2009, 2:38 AM
Not worth the DV and ruining her kids eyesight. :mad:

Hit that mother****er for me.
I didn't say that I liked this option either; but it's the only excuse that comes to mind. Most women would take the kids and leave over a stunt like this. CPS might even get involved, if some doctor reports this gun incident as a case of child abuse.

Eye transplants are not out of the question either; but they'd have to do some kind of fundraising to get the $$$ to pay the bills...

f4iguy
07-13-2009, 7:50 AM
Thats sad.... Being the father of two boys its hard to read. So in the intrest of your nephew, has your sister left the guy?

Asphodel
07-13-2009, 8:15 AM
Audi,

Obviously, I wasn't there, and didn't see what really happened, but the story, as told, is quite plausible.

Consider that one of the more common varieties of shoguns is old 'break-open' single shot, with an open hammer.

If this is the type of shotgun involved, and the young person didn't have the butt-plate correctly located against his shoulder, but, rather, had the butt of the gun somewhat under his shoulder, the gun could indeed recoil back against the child's face when fired bringing the protruding hammer spur into contact with the child's eye.

Understand clearly tho, that I'm not saying 'it happened like that', cos I wasn't there to see what actually happened. I merely offer a hypothetical possibility, which would seem to fit the circumstances described.....in which the gun itself was not defective, but the young person should not have been allowed to fire it.

cheers

Carla

fastpowerstroker
07-13-2009, 8:26 AM
My wifes girlfriends husband recently bought a .40 pistol. Recently I saw him and he asked where he could go with his boys (6 and 4yrs) to shoot. I said I don't know and expressed this was a very bad idea. He went to the range I frequent and they rejected him, told me about it, and I said good, no 6yr old should be shooting a pistol. What happened you ask? He found a range that he and his boy could go to:eek: He keeps asking me to go but I refuse.

Lancear15
07-13-2009, 8:46 AM
I believe your brother in law will be getting a visit from CPS.

My wife is a first grade teacher at a low income school and CPS is a joke.

Turbinator
07-13-2009, 8:57 AM
To the OP - Terribly tragic, sad, and completely avoidable. This guy needs to be out of this kids life, for good. Your sister really needs to think this over. Money vs health and well being of the kid. I think any rational person on here would vote for the kid, no contest. Please have a heart to heart with your sister before the anything else worse happens to this little boy.

Turby

cousinkix1953
07-13-2009, 3:50 PM
My wifes girlfriends husband recently bought a .40 pistol. Recently I saw him and he asked where he could go with his boys (6 and 4yrs) to shoot. I said I don't know and expressed this was a very bad idea. He went to the range I frequent and they rejected him, told me about it, and I said good, no 6yr old should be shooting a pistol. What happened you ask? He found a range that he and his boy could go to:eek: He keeps asking me to go but I refuse.
Kids shooting a .40 caliber pistol? Not at this young age. The oldest one is barely mature enough to handle a single-shot bolt action .22 caliber rifle. The OM should be looking for one of these on a used gun store rack or forget it entirely...

atasty39
07-13-2009, 4:55 PM
What2be-Please tell me that you or someone in your family has already started a papertrail on this guy. If not, you and EVERY other person who knows and does not step up to defend this child are tacitly in agreement with letting this happen. If nothing gets him to change now, things will continue. I deal every day with kids whose parents/family let things happen and they are the ones who pay for lack of judgement on the part of adults. Stop the cycle!

Ditch
07-13-2009, 5:08 PM
Wow this really is a screwed up affair, why in Hell would a person let a small kid shoot a shotgun that weighs way more than they could handle!

I hope this kid is not going to suffer for life because of a dumb ***** father.

aileron
12-15-2009, 12:25 PM
I know I'm reviving this thread... but.

Has the child recovered, will he be able to see again?

This just really upsets me to read. I can't believe someone would be that stupid.

MasterYong
12-15-2009, 3:06 PM
Huh. Missed this thread first time around. That SUCKS.

What's really odd is I SWEAR I know that kid. Not unreasonable since I've been known to frequent the Eureka area... I think someone at my work has pics of that kid in their cubicle...

I've known kids that young that shoot with their parents, but it's always a .22 short or something like that, with the parent essentially retaining control of the firearm and letting the kid pull the trigger. 20 gauge? Negligent.

I hope the kid's OK too.

Fishseeker
12-15-2009, 3:27 PM
Reading this story turms my stomach, I will not rant on what a moron the dad was , but I sure hope the little guy fully recovers.

bruceflinch
12-15-2009, 7:23 PM
Sorry for the pain, this poor child is suffering at the hands of his ignorant sperm provider of a father. :mad:

The main reason Professionals recommend kids under 8 not shoot is due to exposure to lead. <8 yr olds have not fully developed nervous systems. Exposure to lead is very dangerous for them.

Please consider that before before taking small children out shooting.

And please have a child size gun for them to shoot.

what2be
12-16-2009, 9:59 AM
I know I'm reviving this thread... but.

Has the child recovered, will he be able to see again?

This just really upsets me to read. I can't believe someone would be that stupid.

I've lost count on the number of surgeries and doctor visits, but I do know they finally took the patch off his eye last week because they were concerned about him getting lazy eye (when one of your eyes becomes covered, the other will try to compensate and become the dominate eye).

I believe they are talking about taking the stitches out, but not positive, I have had my own personal problems lately and havent kept in touch with my sister as much as I should have. I just hear bits from my family about how hes doing.

They still cant tell what the outcome will be, but ill keep this thread updated when I know for sure, maybe at the 1 year mark.

Thanks for all your thoughts and well wishes.

23 Blast
12-16-2009, 10:58 AM
Oh my, that is such a tremendously sad story. Even if nothing bad happened to your nephew, the huge blast and recoil from a 20ga shotgun was likely to turn him off to shooting altogether. That he actually did get injured makes me sick. I always hate reading stories about kids who got hurt because of their parents' negligence or stupidity. (or someone else's, like that poor kid in Oklahoma. :(

Steyrlp10
12-16-2009, 11:08 AM
Just wanted to add to the rest of the Calgunners' posts of concern. What a tragic accident! It's good your nephew has your support.

Both my sons shoot with me, but my own personal rule was no live fire until they could prove they have the patience AND maturity to follow all instructions (mine, range commands, etc.) So, they were in their early teens before they could touch anything other than an air pistol.

It's like you all know -- the accident only needs to happen once -- and you can't take it back.

audihenry
12-16-2009, 11:12 AM
I remember when this was posted. Can he see from that eye now? Has he recovered?

Tweak338
12-16-2009, 5:12 PM
Very sad to hear, I missed this thread the first time.
I agree with Venkman, I would have beat the **** out of my BIL if I was you.
Moron, 4 is way too young.

Plinkin
12-16-2009, 7:31 PM
this make me cringe. i pray he'll be ok

Omil
12-16-2009, 7:42 PM
Man, what kind of father is this? :mad:
I'll pray for this kid. Hoping he'll ok.

Bigballaizm
12-16-2009, 7:42 PM
I hope your nephew is ok!

Rob454
12-16-2009, 7:51 PM
I'm confused. How did the hammer on the shotgun go through his eye? What kind of shotgun ?

Recoil. im assuming something similar to scope eye. Sad to hear that happening. looks like a cute kid. The father shoudl of thought better or at least brace the kid by holding him to his chest andf absorbing the recoil himself also. Sorry to hear that happen but it had to be a simple accident. A stupid one but jsut a accident. i cant imagine any father intentionally doing something like that to their kid.
Sorry to hear. hope the kid comes out of it ok.