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JJ1911
07-10-2009, 5:49 AM
Anyone have experience with MMGs on their ARs? Are they flush with the stock or is there some play. I don't have an AR yet, but if i built one I'd want to be able to use detachable magazines, and this seems like a logical route. Just want to know if they're more hassle than a BB thanks!

oldschool88
07-10-2009, 6:06 AM
They sit flush with a regular A2 stock and should have be no play whatsoever, mine went on tighter than the original pistol grip. I love mine, having detachable mags is great. Some people don't like the grip angle but it doesn't bother me. If you don't like the angle there are some other options too. Either way featureless is the way to go.:)

tenpercentfirearms
07-10-2009, 7:23 AM
I really like the MonsterMan Grip. It is comfortable to shoot and on some rifles, having a detachable magazine is more important to me than having a pistol grip or collapsible stock. Where are you located and we might be able to find a shop that has one on the wall for you.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g52/elrojo14/Geocaching/th_AR57.jpg (http://s53.photobucket.com/albums/g52/elrojo14/Geocaching/?action=view&current=AR57.flv)

duraglock
07-10-2009, 7:57 AM
I just started making kydex grip wraps that maintain the normal a2 grip. Getting great reviews. Keeps the factory grip angle.

PatriotnMore
07-10-2009, 8:00 AM
I like your item, but for me, the price point is too high for what you get. I do like your idea and product however.

I just started making kydex grip wraps that maintain the normal a2 grip. Getting great reviews. Keeps the factory grip angle.

philthy209
07-10-2009, 8:02 AM
I have both. The MMG gives me no problem even while switching between both at the range.

X-NewYawker
07-10-2009, 9:13 AM
My problem with that "wraparound holster concept" is t hat your gun still has a pistol grip -- underneath -- and some well intended DA in an Urban part of the state is gonna claim the holster was temporary way to get around being caught with an AW. Until the legal test case/suit, I'll stick with MMG -- use your 20 year old 30 rounders with GLEE --

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p54/Fasanoland/_MG_8005.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p54/Fasanoland/XCR-n-mom.jpg

El Gato
07-10-2009, 9:26 AM
The monster man has it's detractors...but not me...I am enthusiastic about it and am looking to do an AK build with one....

if you want a gun that "looks" like an M4/AK then the bb thang will work for you... if what you want is looks... but if you want a "shooter" then go MM... even if you only use 10 rounders... you can really do high speed mag changes compared to the bb and the angled grip works fine if you have an ambi safety.. it actually allows you to get a proper finger position on the trigger for maximum accurace potential....and when you go out of state for a shoot it is a moment to switch to the stock grip....
My next AR build will probably be a pistol caliber gun with MM and A1 stock - (I'm le and can get the mags but the current chief won't give me a letter to buy a reg. AW - so hence one of the attractions for the MM build - regular cap mags)
My kid is looking to build a prescision rifle with MM ...
One of the positives of the MM featureless build is that it is a regular rifle and you will presumably have less issues about taking it hunting etc... whereas the BB thing looks like an evil gun....
call me enthusiastic about the MM until I can get a regular stock setup in Kali...after we win some AW law challenges...
signed
optomistic cat

aplinker
07-10-2009, 3:33 PM
Not true. Have you read the definition of a PG in CCR? If you can't grip it like a PG, it's not a PG.

There is no difference between what he's doing and the MMG.

I prefer the MMG, though. For guns where there is no MMG, I've done the "batwing" style.

My problem with that "wraparound holster concept" is t hat your gun still has a pistol grip -- underneath -- and some well intended DA in an Urban part of the state is gonna claim the holster was temporary way to get around being caught with an AW. Until the legal test case/suit, I'll stick with MMG -- use your 20 year old 30 rounders with GLEE --

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p54/Fasanoland/_MG_8005.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p54/Fasanoland/XCR-n-mom.jpg

odysseus
07-10-2009, 3:37 PM
I think what NewYawker is trying to say is that the MMG is a dedicated manufacture part to abide with the Cali law on these builds. If you want to be very conservative in this, it might add some credence in front of a jury instead of taking a real PG and modifying a stock to abide by the same law.

It is splitting hairs. Again both are legal IMO, one just has a better appearance to the layman or uninitiated LEO.

None of that has been actually tested to my knowledge.

To add to ergonomics, the MMG has a better angle to hold I would think than a standard PG, since because you can't web around the PG in this scenario, the MMG angle allows a more supported hold in your hand. I haven't liked the PG if you can't actually hold it like one. However I would like to see another version of the MMG, there are improvements, size notably, that could be made.
.

X-NewYawker
07-10-2009, 3:38 PM
Not true. Have you read the definition of a PG in CCR? If you can't grip it like a PG, it's not a PG.

There is no difference between what he's doing and the MMG.

I prefer the MMG, though. For guns where there is no MMG, I've done the "batwing" style.

I said that's how I "feel" about it. It's not a permanent modification of the PG. I worry about the fact that the guys in the police property room could pop it off and claim you always only had a straight PG. (Yeah, I know they would NEVER do anything like that...)

I would like to have that original PG angle on my MMG, but I believe MM did that for a reason. MM?

Brutish
07-10-2009, 3:55 PM
I said that's how I "feel" about it. It's not a permanent modification of the PG. I worry about the fact that the guys in the police property room could pop it off and claim you always only had a straight PG. (Yeah, I know they would NEVER do anything like that...)

I would like to have that original PG angle on my MMG, but I believe MM did that for a reason. MM?
He said the MM grip angle was done because it was more comfortable and put less stress on the middle finger than when using a standard PG angle. That is the only reason. It was not done for legal purposes.

aplinker
07-10-2009, 4:02 PM
I said that's how I "feel" about it. It's not a permanent modification of the PG. I worry about the fact that the guys in the police property room could pop it off and claim you always only had a straight PG. (Yeah, I know they would NEVER do anything like that...)

I would like to have that original PG angle on my MMG, but I believe MM did that for a reason. MM?

Bro, your "feelings" are irrelevant. You're no jedi. :p

The PC has no constructive intent. Further, a PG is removed/attached as quickly as what he's making, if you wanted to make the change, so the idea that the "cover" being "removable" is an issue really isn't.

He said the MM grip angle was done because it was more comfortable and put less stress on the middle finger than when using a standard PG angle. That is the only reason. It was not done for legal purposes.

Yup. You should read MM's very well done document that he did for the DOJ when the MMG was submitted for approval.

It helps a lot with understanding this issue.

Sig357
07-10-2009, 4:07 PM
I've had a MMG on an AR, and currently have the wood MMG on my Romy G Ak. They are fantastic, plus you can use your pre-ban hi-cap mags and no need for maglocks. (this is of course that you have no evil features, but why would you with a MMG.)

aplinker
07-10-2009, 4:10 PM
forgot the link...

http://www.monstermangrip.com/uploads/MMG_letter_to_DOJ.pdf

MonsterMan
07-10-2009, 4:26 PM
I have prototyped about every configuration that you can think of when it comes to this type of grip. I did this angle of grip because it is the most comfortable for me. When I am holding a regular rifle stock, even if I keep my thumb on the right side (not wrapped over), then my hand can cradle the stock and support the weight nicely because of the anle. When I shoulder a pistol gripped rifle and keep my thumb on the right side (not wrapped around), the weight of the rifle rests on top of your middle finger where the trigger guard hits. The rest of the fingers are having to squeeze harder to keep the rifle supported (try it yourself and see if you can see what I am talking about). So, for me, the angle that the current MMG is in, I can support the weight with all of my fingers and my hand better like a traditional rifle stock and the weight of the rifle isn't just pressing down in one spot, which allows me to do easier one handed holding for mag changes. I can also reach the ambi-safety really nicely.

Now this is just my opinion and since I was forking over the money to get this thing made, I was going with what felt good to me. The grip does look different compared to the standard grip. But I was going for comfort rather than looks. I know there are guys who hate the grip and wont be caught dead shooting something like this or they just think it is the most uncomfortable thing out there. All I can say is that it isn't for everyone. I wish I had the funds to make more versions. But the MMG sales on the "off list" type rifles only consists of maybe 10% compared to the "fixed mag" builds. Most people prefer to fix their mags. I am not that type of guy. I would rather have a detachable 10 round mag gun than a fixed 10 round gun.

The angle also does keep the web above the "line" when you hold it normally which is a nice bonus. Not that it matters. But it is one more line of defense.

If anyone wants to donate $20,000.00 in getting a new grip made, contact me. I wish I had it at the moment but I just can't swing it. I was hoping to have the FAL MMG out by now, but the guy who makes them got caught up in the gun craze that is sweeping the nation right now and he is just keeping up with his own orders.

On a side note, I am discontinuing the wood AK MMG's. So once what is in the store is gone, then you probably wont see them for a while. They just don't sell like the plastic grips.

I hope this explains it all. If you guys have anymore questions, let me know.

aplinker
07-10-2009, 4:30 PM
I love'em.

I also totally respect the way you present your stuff. The original "3 kings" of AR fixes (you, Grant, Darin) are 100% class acts. We wouldn't be where we are without you gentleman. :)

Guess I'll be picking up a few more wood MMGs!

I have prototyped about every configuration that you can think of when it comes to this type of grip. I did this angle of grip because it is the most comfortable for me. When I am holding a regular rifle stock, even if I keep my thumb on the right side (not wrapped over), then my hand can cradle the stock and support the weight nicely because of the anle. When I shoulder a pistol gripped rifle and keep my thumb on the right side (not wrapped around), the weight of the rifle rests on top of your middle finger where the trigger guard hits. The rest of the fingers are having to squeeze harder to keep the rifle supported (try it yourself and see if you can see what I am talking about). So, for me, the angle that the current MMG is in, I can support the weight with all of my fingers and my hand better like a traditional rifle stock and the weight of the rifle isn't just pressing down in one spot, which allows me to do easier one handed holding for mag changes. I can also reach the ambi-safety really nicely.

Now this is just my opinion and since I was forking over the money to get this thing made, I was going with what felt good to me. The grip does look different compared to the standard grip. But I was going for comfort rather than looks. I know there are guys who hate the grip and wont be caught dead shooting something like this or they just think it is the most uncomfortable thing out there. All I can say is that it isn't for everyone. I wish I had the funds to make more versions. But the MMG sales on the "off list" type rifles only consists of maybe 10% compared to the "fixed mag" builds. Most people prefer to fix their mags. I am not that type of guy. I would rather have a detachable 10 round mag gun than a fixed 10 round gun.

The angle also does keep the web above the "line" when you hold it normally which is a nice bonus. Not that it matters. But it is one more line of defense.

If anyone wants to donate $20,000.00 in getting a new grip made, contact me. I wish I had it at the moment but I just can't swing it. I was hoping to have the FAL MMG out by now, but the guy who makes them got caught up in the gun craze that is sweeping the nation right now and he is just keeping up with his own orders.

On a side note, I am discontinuing the wood AK MMG's. So once what is in the store is gone, then you probably wont see them for a while. They just don't sell like the plastic grips.

I hope this explains it all. If you guys have anymore questions, let me know.

MonsterMan
07-11-2009, 8:23 AM
Thanks for the nice words. I just tried to do what I could to help us out. :) Hopefully we can get these crazy laws taken down so we don't need all of these BB's, MMG's, U-15's, etc.

Czechsix
07-11-2009, 8:28 AM
I like the one on my AR. One thing that made a huge difference though - stipple the damned thing. With stippling, I have no issues using a one handed grip while doing mag changes or clearing. Made a huge difference.

In general though, the MMG is a good quality product.