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View Full Version : HELP! Rounds coming loose *IN* magazine - New VIDEO & Pics on Page 2


WeekendWarrior
07-08-2009, 8:38 PM
I just got a couple of 19 round magazine rebuild kits by c-products in .308. I am creating 10/20 mags out of them using rivits.

I started with one of them this afternoon. I followed the guid posted here on using a rivet on the barrel facing side of the magazine to block it to 10 rounds. I got the distance of the rivet perfectly and it only acepts 10 rounds.

Here is the problem: When I load this magazine after 5 rounds or so, some rounds will come loose and slide forward in the magazine, many time the second round will slide out and angle out diaganally from the feed lips at the front of the magazine. When I inspect the rounds, it looks like the top round is hlding the third round down without leaning on round 2, casing it to some loose. I can sometimes tell the 5th or 6th round has come loose when I inspect the mag after loading it and it will be much more forward in the mag than the others.

I have checked the magaine to make sure it was the right mag by comparing to some 10 round DPMS ones I have. It looked like the mag was the exact same dimentions. I tried reversing the spring in the mag, same thing. I noticed the feedlips looked different than the dpms ones, so I bent them out a little to see if this would put more pressure on the rounds against each other as they were originally angled pretty sharply. No difference.

Lastly, I removed the floor plate about 50% of the way and then reloaded the mag watching the rivet and the spring. There was absolutely no interference. The only part of the mag that even touched the rivet was the follower when it reached the 10 round limit.

HELP!

Linus
07-08-2009, 11:10 PM
Can you post some pics so we can see what you mean?

dchang0
07-09-2009, 12:06 AM
Same thing happened with some of my C-Products 10/20 mags. It's the follower tilting inside of the magazine and pinching the rounds unevenly. Rounds would slide out. Try some anti-tilt followers (though finding those for .308 mags might be tough).

missiontrails
07-09-2009, 5:24 AM
After you put the rivet in, is the spring getting caught on the rivet?

hawk81
07-09-2009, 6:13 AM
Yeah, sounds like a spring issue.

WeekendWarrior
07-09-2009, 7:26 AM
The spring is not touching the rivet at all. I opened up the floor plate and used a flashlight to look in there. It looked like the spring had a good universal flex pattern and was not bowed out in any direction but was flexing straight up and down with the pressure. The rivet is over a centimeter away from the spring, so there is absolutely no interference between the rivet

The follower is one thisng that concerns me, it is shaped mucvh differntly from the one in the DMPMS mags I have, and looks like it could contribute to keeping the rounds pressure on the one above it, but not the one on the side. I tried reversing the spring in every combination I could think of. I will post pics tonight, but I don't think its a spring issue. I would guess it has to do with the shape of the feed lips which may be pressing the top round straight down instead of down and towards the middle of the magazine, or the shape of the follower

missiontrails
07-09-2009, 8:41 AM
As long as the tabs at the top if the mag are not irregular, drop in a new follower. CMMG has those new stainless followers, and you can even combine that with their braided mag spring. Have one, rounds really glide nice of the stainless shelf. There are plenty of good pastic followers also.

djslik
07-09-2009, 9:27 AM
Who else makes after market followers other than CMMG because I am getting feeding issues with my 10 round DPMS mags. I think the followers are tilting causing some rounds to load incorrectly.

WeekendWarrior
07-09-2009, 10:14 AM
The problem in my situation is that I have already committed to the follower that came with the mag, as I have already installed the rivet. I tried to get the follower out last nuight but couldnt get it past the rivet.

Justintoxicated
07-09-2009, 10:26 AM
The problem in my situation is that I have already committed to the follower that came with the mag, as I have already installed the rivet. I tried to get the follower out last nuight but couldnt get it past the rivet.

drill out the rivet, just make sure you don't put the base back on until re-rivet cause that would be a big NoNo! ;)

tlillard23
07-09-2009, 10:35 AM
remove the rivet or throw the mag away.... Anti tilt followers are the way to go.

WeekendWarrior
07-09-2009, 11:53 AM
Yeah, I'll post pictures and maybe even a video tonight, i think that should help clarify what is going on. I'll look into the CMMG followers as an alternative. I'm just a little afraid of trying to drill out the rivet without a drill press, but my dad does have one of those back home. Maybe I will drive over there and get medieval on that magazine body.

WeekendWarrior
07-09-2009, 11:55 AM
Tillard, you're crazy man, I just spent 40 bucks on that thing, not going to throw it way, but I will find a way to make it work!

missiontrails
07-09-2009, 12:08 PM
Yeah, I'll post pictures and maybe even a video tonight, i think that should help clarify what is going on. I'll look into the CMMG followers as an alternative. I'm just a little afraid of trying to drill out the rivet without a drill press, but my dad does have one of those back home. Maybe I will drive over there and get medieval on that magazine body.
You don't need a drill press, you only need a vice, a sharp drill bit, and some RPM's. 1500 RPM will drill it out clean.

technique
07-09-2009, 12:45 PM
need pics at the very least....but I have a feeling I know what the issue is.

Pics!

WeekendWarrior
07-09-2009, 1:21 PM
I will post some tonight. Oh, Technique, shooting at Richmond on Saturday, want to meet up?

-T

WeekendWarrior
07-09-2009, 4:30 PM
Ok, here is a video of me loading the mag and a round coming loose. Will add pics in a few minutes.

Okay so appatrently I have no idea how to embed a video from youtube, but here is the link:


IDjeFQwlFGk#

swerv512
07-09-2009, 4:43 PM
wow... that's weird.....how can there be adequate spring tension on the feed lip to keep the upper round in tight but not the one beneath it??? i guess that's the million dollar question, huh. good luck...

technique
07-09-2009, 4:52 PM
The rivet HAS to be interfering.....


Try taking the spring out if you can.....pull it, stretch it gradually. Then Try again.

So what your saying is that the spring its self is not as large in diameter as the mag body?

WeekendWarrior
07-09-2009, 4:53 PM
I know its wierd, Im totally baffled.

Here are two close ups of the round loose:
http://inlinethumb56.webshots.com/44791/2309485410074982880S600x600Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2309485410074982880FzbxmL)
http://inlinethumb08.webshots.com/42055/2075145790074982880S600x600Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2075145790074982880GvEeTU)

Here is a picture of the follower:
http://inlinethumb21.webshots.com/44244/2689443690074982880S600x600Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2689443690074982880TNqhWQ)

Here is a shot of the rivet with adequate spring clearance when the mag is unloaded:
http://inlinethumb52.webshots.com/42355/2543399740074982880S600x600Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2543399740074982880sgppdX)

Here is shot of the mag fully loaded showing spring clearance with the rivet:
http://inlinethumb10.webshots.com/44553/2375334280074982880S600x600Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2375334280074982880QYNnmq)

HELP ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WeekendWarrior
07-09-2009, 4:56 PM
The rivet HAS to be interfering.....
Try taking the spring out if you can.....pull it, stretch it gradually. Then Try again.

So what your saying is that the spring its self is not as large in diameter as the mag body?

Yeah, the spring doesnt fill the full mag body width wise, but when I took my DPMS mag apart, the spring was virtually the same dimentions besides length (as the DMPS mag was a 10 rounder) The spring in the 20 rounder was a little less the twice as long. Regarding the pressure on the follower, its difficult to compress the spring and get it in there, so if anything maybe it's too much pressure?

technique
07-09-2009, 5:02 PM
Well....theres no turning back now. You already have the rivet in there.

They look to be a lot like GI mags from your pics....Probly a tilt issue. It may just be the design of the Mag. It appears that theres nothing to stabilize the follower.

Get P-mags for DPMS:p

WeekendWarrior
07-09-2009, 5:04 PM
F! I thought C-Products made decent magazines? Man, Im going to have to send the other one back to 44mag and switch it out for DPMS then. LAME.

Not to mention I waited over a month for these mags to ship!!!!!!!!!!!! :90:

technique
07-09-2009, 5:07 PM
F! I thought C-Products made decent magazines? Man, Im going to have to send the other one back to 44mag and switch it out for DPMS then. LAME.

they make decent 5.56 mags. Don't they also carry DPMS too?

This is the first C-prod .308 mag I have seen. Besides the spring hows it compare to the DPMS mags you have? Are they designed similar?

WeekendWarrior
07-09-2009, 5:12 PM
The only major differnce as far as I can tell are the follower and the feedlips. I'll go take another picture :)

technique
07-09-2009, 5:18 PM
I just loaded up a factory Armalite AR10 preban...no tilt.

It looks the same...no anti-tilt or anything. But I didn't have any issues like you. Feed lips were my next guess....lets see those pics.

WeekendWarrior
07-09-2009, 5:20 PM
uploading now, will take a minute to put them in

The DPMS Mag is the one with the bullet shaped follower

http://inlinethumb41.webshots.com/32680/2265415530074982880S600x600Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2265415530074982880uGJEFb)

http://inlinethumb53.webshots.com/20148/2465595850074982880S600x600Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2465595850074982880QKTIJp)

http://inlinethumb16.webshots.com/42831/2823146380074982880S600x600Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2823146380074982880GOQEgR)

http://inlinethumb59.webshots.com/42746/2008318950074982880S600x600Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2008318950074982880WLWjYV)

http://inlinethumb08.webshots.com/20743/2000829540074982880S600x600Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2000829540074982880sYCrny)

WeekendWarrior
07-09-2009, 5:34 PM
Okay, and here are some shot of the two c-products mags (the one I have been messing with shows wear on the feedlips as I bent them out a little ever so slightly to see if that would help. No difference after I did this though

http://inlinethumb20.webshots.com/8979/2051420300074982880S600x600Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2051420300074982880hoXXNf)

http://inlinethumb57.webshots.com/39736/2979598430074982880S600x600Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2979598430074982880BBtvDO)

http://inlinethumb52.webshots.com/42483/2422086490074982880S600x600Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2422086490074982880kQlLLE)

I jammed a plasstic bag up the other c-products magazine to hold the follower in place for comparison purposes.

technique
07-09-2009, 5:54 PM
weird.

WeekendWarrior
07-09-2009, 6:00 PM
SOOOOOOOOOOO MAD. I spent a lot of money, time end effort to get these and it seems like they pretty much wont work.

technique
07-09-2009, 6:02 PM
try the one you moded at the range....see what happens.

WeekendWarrior
07-09-2009, 6:06 PM
Ha, it will be awhile probably before Im shooting the AR-10 anyway, it arrived down in LA on Tuesday for AR15barrels to thread the barrel and attach my compensator, and install my quad rail free float tube. Im assuming I wont get it back for a week or two.

SJgunguy24
07-09-2009, 6:37 PM
It looks to me like you should go with a shorter pop rivet. The one you have there looks like a 3/4" rivet. You gotta remember when that spring is under tension it will act differently and fill the void. You can't tell unless you have a clear baseplate to look through when the mag is loaded.

Thats my guess, BTW you don't need a drill press, any cordless or power drill should work. I've drilled out plenty of pop rivets in my time.

WeekendWarrior
07-10-2009, 8:28 AM
It looks to me like you should go with a shorter pop rivet. The one you have there looks like a 3/4" rivet. You gotta remember when that spring is under tension it will act differently and fill the void. You can't tell unless you have a clear baseplate to look through when the mag is loaded.

Thats my guess, BTW you don't need a drill press, any cordless or power drill should work. I've drilled out plenty of pop rivets in my time.

That's not a bad idea, but I have opened up the baseplate of the mag wilst loading it and examined the spring after loading each round. i tlooks like the body of the magazine keeps the spring completely contained in the center of the mag because of the shape of the mag body (the metal comes in a little bit forming a channel for the spring) Take a look at the pictures I included I think on page two. It shows a pic of the rivet and spring when the mag is unloaded & when it is fully loaded. In both cases, the spring is at least a centimeter away from the rivet. I don't think the spring is hitting the rivet at all in fact, as I have never felt a lot of resistance with a sudden pop while loading it, which would be part of the spring jumping over the rivet when snagged on it. Every time I load a round, the spring resistance feels consistent to that of a normal magazine and does not suddenly get much more difficult.

SJgunguy24
07-10-2009, 8:55 AM
I would drill out the rivet and start fresh. See if the ammo is still loose with all of the variables removed. If it still malfunctions than you know you have a dud.

WeekendWarrior
07-10-2009, 9:55 AM
Not a bad call, I will do it this weekend and see what happens. That's a good point about removing the variables. It seems like when you get flustered over something, the scientific method goes out the window.