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GoingPro
07-04-2009, 9:53 PM
I dont know if anyone has posted this video yet, but it pretty much shows that when SHTF this WILL happen here in California as well. Be smart and lets not have our firearms taken away from us. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4 for everyone that thinks it will be a cakewalk taking care of your family in a crisis situation, think again. I dont know exactly what i would do, i need to find a nice hiding place.

Another video. cops in Boston searching teenagers homes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_1ushPq1xg

akjunkie
07-04-2009, 10:15 PM
http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?id=4205

SPUTTER
07-04-2009, 10:17 PM
Yeah, those guys shouldnt have obeyed orders to do that, thats just bs. If the SHTF though, I'd be more worried about hiding that girl in your avatar.:cool:

bodger
07-04-2009, 10:19 PM
I dont know if anyone has posted this video yet, but it pretty much shows that when SHTF this WILL happen here in California as well. Be smart and lets not have our firearms taken away from us. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4 for everyone that thinks it will be a cakewalk taking care of your family in a crisis situation, think again. I dont know exactly what i would do, i need to find a nice hiding place.

Unbelievable. That's the most frightening thing I have ever seen. If someone attempted to force me to leave my home, give them my weapons, and probably abandon my pets in the process, I don't think I would willingly comply. I don't think I could do it, I could not let that happen.

We have really gone to hell in handbasket in this country. What did they think would be accomplished by confiscating everyone's guns?
I once took an oath, a portion of which contained the following: To support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, and bear true faith and allegiance to the same.

As far as I'm concerned, that didn't expire for me when they handed me my DD214. I don't think I could go along with having my rights trampled like I was some mindless sheep.

Do I run the risk of ending up on some government sh*t list by stating that in an open forum like this? Maybe I should be careful. My First Amendment rights might not mean anything either anymore.

GoingPro
07-04-2009, 10:20 PM
http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?id=4205

nice ... i didnt know that. its still scary with what they did though.

Scratch705
07-04-2009, 10:24 PM
no offense to any calgunners that are cops, but if SHTF in cali, and there is a call to give up guns, i will be shooting any "government thieves" ringing on my doorbell asking for guns before i let them in the house. i rather die from the hail of bullets, then die from having the lack of a weapon in my hands to protect my family from the looters/rioters/thugs

SPUTTER
07-04-2009, 10:25 PM
http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?id=4205

Thats not enough...Whoever it was that gave the orders to confiscate should be fired and tried in a court of law.

GoingPro
07-04-2009, 10:25 PM
Unbelievable. That's the most frightening thing I have ever seen. If someone attempted to force me to leave my home, give them my weapons, and probably abandon my pets in the process, I don't think I would willingly comply. I don't think I could do it, I could not let that happen.

We have really gone to hell in handbasket in this country. What did they think would be accomplished by confiscating everyone's guns?
I once took an oath, a portion of which contained the following: To support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, and bear true faith and allegiance to the same.

As far as I'm concerned, that didn't expire for me when they handed me my DD214. I don't think I could go along with having my rights trampled like I was some mindless sheep.

Do I run the risk of ending up on some government sh*t list by stating that in an open forum like this? Maybe I should be careful. My First Amendment rights might not mean anything either anymore.

yeah, it is really scary. You know what part gets under my skin. When they are roughing up an old lady for protecting her home. Like It takes a big man like that to take a 70 year old woman. That's unbelievable, these guys are thugs.

Arteel
07-04-2009, 10:28 PM
I dont have any guns..

GoingPro
07-04-2009, 10:28 PM
no offense to any calgunners that are cops, but if SHTF in cali, and there is a call to give up guns, i will be shooting any "government thieves" ringing on my doorbell asking for guns before i let them in the house.

i think im on the same boat with you man. With all these gang bangers out here in So. Cal. in a SHTF scenario, im not going to give up my firearms with all the thugs going around fully armed. My and my family's family's safety comes first and i will go by all means to protect myself in that type of situation.

k1dude
07-04-2009, 10:29 PM
There's a book out called "The Great New Orleans Gun Grab - Descent into Anarchy" by Gordon Hutchinson and Todd Mason. It's all about what went on after Katrina.

What upsets me the most is NO ONE prosecuted the politicians that gave the order to throw out the constitution nor the law enforcement types that executed the unlawful searches and seizures. What has happened to our nation? What have we become?

I suspect it will get much worse with the power structure in DC.

groovielou
07-04-2009, 10:31 PM
Is it just me, or is that a California Highway Patrol Patch in that New Orleans Video?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=27111&d=1246775422

SPUTTER
07-04-2009, 10:33 PM
During LA Riots, cops didnt confiscate guns, they just ran

bodger
07-04-2009, 10:34 PM
no offense to any calgunners that are cops, but if SHTF in cali, and there is a call to give up guns, i will be shooting any "government thieves" ringing on my doorbell asking for guns before i let them in the house. i rather die from the hail of bullets, then die from having the lack of a weapon in my hands to protect my family from the looters/rioters/thugs

Absolutely, as it should be.
NOBODY is getting into my house either in a situation like this. They knock on my door, I hide quietly. If they go away, fine.
If they force entry, their sh*t had better be wired tight.

technique
07-04-2009, 10:37 PM
Is it just me, or is that a California Highway Patrol Patch in that New Orleans Video?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=27111&d=1246775422

Cops were sent from all over to "help"......Oh no...here it comes....Blackwater and other private security came to "help" too....:TFH::)

hamster
07-04-2009, 10:37 PM
So what do you do if you're in a situation like that?

technique
07-04-2009, 10:41 PM
So what do you do if you're in a situation like that?

If your like me...your buddies know where to go when SHTF, YOUR house!

About 7-10 of you and your armed buddies saying "no, I will not give up my constitutional rights" should give a clear message. If not....may God have mercy on their souls. ;)

GoingPro
07-04-2009, 10:42 PM
it seems that everyone has to re-think their plans for their escape if SHTF.

GoingPro
07-04-2009, 10:43 PM
If your like me...your buddies know where to go when SHTF, YOUR house!

About 7-10 of you and your armed buddies saying "no, I will not give up my constitutional rights" should give a clear message. If not....may God have mercy on their souls. ;)

i need to buy more ammo, if there was a militia in california i would have joined a long time ago.

GoingPro
07-04-2009, 10:47 PM
this is another good video. Cops in boston searching a teenagers home. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_1ushPq1xg

SPUTTER
07-04-2009, 10:47 PM
i need to buy more ammo, if there was a militia in california i would have joined a long time ago.

Where do you buy your ammo anyway?

GoingPro
07-04-2009, 10:48 PM
Where do you buy your ammo anyway?

ammoman.com or i find other deals online.

Victory
07-04-2009, 10:50 PM
Μολών λαβέ

-Vic

akjunkie
07-04-2009, 10:54 PM
i remember watching the news during Katrina, it wasnt just LEO's confiscating guns. the Military were given orders to do the same thing.

remember seeing a guy from the 82nd saying, "this just aint right".

SCMA-1
07-04-2009, 10:55 PM
There is no more heinous a crime than abuse of power under color of authority as blatantly shown in that horrific video. Just in the last century, it's estimated that some 150 million citizens of various countries have been murdered by their OWN government; the type of thing witnessed in that video is a precursor to such atrocities. It's bad enough that elected public officials could ever order such a criminal act against the people who elected him (Nagin), but the rogue officers (aka JACK BOOTED THUGS) in that video are equally guilty of this atrocity when they CHOSE to follow unlawful and unconstitutional orders and violate the oath they swore to "uphold and defend the constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic."

That video made me so angry I'm about ready to blow a fuse.:mad::mad:

I recently posted this thread of some youtube videos regarding an organization (Oath Keepers) composed of servicemen and LEO's who have sworn to disobey such unconstitutional orders in the event they are faced with them. Except for a few snarky remarks about one of the individuals in some of the videos, there was EXTREME silence over this controversial subject.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=193125

So maybe the OP's video is shocking/disturbing enough that more people will come forth and give an opinion on the possibility of this happening to us Commiefornians. I'll tell you what; as for me personally, I know what my rights are under the law and if some heavily armed JBT's tried to feloniously assault my mother or family members like they did that poor old lady, I would have no choice but to exercise my lawful right to self defense and LIGHT THEM UP.:43: Make no mistake about it; once any LEO chooses to cross over the line separating lawful police activity from criminal misconduct, then they are NO LONGER representing legitimate law enforcement and should be dealt with like any other common criminal.

What say you, members of LE and military. What would you do if ordered to carry out unconstitutional orders against the people and constitution you swore to defend?

SCMA-1

God Bless The Mauser
07-04-2009, 10:55 PM
If SHTF I have no guns :D If they ask about gunfire in the past I'll just say I like to listen to gun shots on the stereo.

GoingPro
07-04-2009, 11:01 PM
So maybe the OP's video is shocking/disturbing enough that more people will come forth and give an opinion on the possibility of this happening to us Commiefornians. I'll tell you what; as for me personally, I know what my rights are under the law and if some heavily armed JBT's tried to feloniously assault my mother or family members like they did that poor old lady, I would have no choice but to exercise my lawful right to self defense and LIGHT THEM UP.:43:



SCMA-1

man you couldn't have said it better. :chris:

SCMA-1
07-04-2009, 11:02 PM
If SHTF I have no guns :D If they ask about gunfire in the past I'll just say I like to listen to gun shots on the stereo.

Believe me, they will already know next time if it happens here in Commiefornia and will access gun owner information electronically before they come knocking. Remember that CA is one of the most restrictive gun states and has invested heavily in the various gun registration databases.

SCMA-1

God Bless The Mauser
07-04-2009, 11:11 PM
Believe me, they will already know next time if it happens here in Commiefornia and will access gun owner information electronically before they come knocking. Remember that CA is one of the most restrictive gun states and has invested heavily in the various gun registration databases.

SCMA-1

I live in the country so that's one plus. I could make it pretty hard to get in my property. No criminal is ever welcome here.

SCMA-1
07-04-2009, 11:21 PM
I'm thinking this thread should be moved to a more appropriate forum like the 2nd Amendment forum or "Off Topic". It will get more exposure there also. What do you think, GoingPro?

SCMA-1

GoingPro
07-04-2009, 11:27 PM
I'm thinking this thread should be moved to a more appropriate forum like the 2nd Amendment forum or "Off Topic". It will get more exposure there also. What do you think, GoingPro?

SCMA-1

thats fine with me :cool2: 2nd amendment would be best i think

God Bless The Mauser
07-04-2009, 11:36 PM
Another thing that occured to me recently was what do people that need medication do in SHTF? I guess they are just SOL if they don't have extra. My dad needs heart medication and I told him he should think about getting some extra just in case.

SCMA-1
07-04-2009, 11:43 PM
Another thing that occured to me recently was what do people that need medication do in SHTF? I guess they are just SOL if they don't have extra. My dad needs heart medication and I told him he should think about getting some extra just in case.

The outside world seldom gets all the details, but I would suspect that there were lots of people who may have died or suffered tremendously because they didn't have extra medication. It's just like any other disaster. Hopefully your dad can get an additional supply so he can always have a buffer?

SCMA-1

Double_D
07-05-2009, 12:08 AM
some of you are saying that you would rather fight back against the police than be helpless against rioters, looters and etc. Be realistic. If you shoot back against the police, your *** is going to rot into the ground. There's other things you may be able to do to protect your family, but dying is not one of those things. I understand MOLON LABE, but it just doesnt seem logical to me in this kind of situation.

SJgunguy24
07-05-2009, 12:22 AM
some of you are saying that you would rather fight back against the police than be helpless against rioters, looters and etc. Be realistic. If you shoot back against the police, your *** is going to rot into the ground. There's other things you may be able to do to protect your family, but dying is not one of those things. I understand MOLON LABE, but it just doesnt seem logical to me in this kind of situation.

Remember that when the cops come and you give them your guns, who do you think is going to be right behind them?

It'll be another gang of heavily armed jack booted thugs........just without badges.

Oh yeah, they plan on having their way with your 3 teenage daughters......and your forced to watch.

Logical or not, the world can be a very cold evil savage place, and there is only 3 things you can depend on when S.H.T.F. Your god, your guns and yourself.

dchang0
07-05-2009, 12:35 AM
Another thing that occured to me recently was what do people that need medication do in SHTF? I guess they are just SOL if they don't have extra. My dad needs heart medication and I told him he should think about getting some extra just in case.

That's one of the reasons why they shouldn't ban Canadian prescription-drug pharmacies. People should be able to stock up on life-saving medicines. Hell, I'd love to have a few extra Z-Packs lying around just for emergencies; having prescription antibiotics is a must for fighting bacterial infections that could very easily happen during a SHTF situation.

And yet we aren't trusted to buy our own medicines...

Ruiner
07-05-2009, 12:37 AM
Remember that when the cops come and you give them your guns, who do you think is going to be right behind them?

It'll be another gang of heavily armed jack booted thugs........just without badges.

Oh yeah, they plan on having their way with your 3 teenage daughters......and your forced to watch.

Logical or not, the world can be a very cold evil savage place, and there is only 3 things you can depend on when S.H.T.F. Your god, your guns and yourself.


So, if you die in the shootout. What of your 3 teenage daughters then? :confused:

skeetskeet
07-05-2009, 12:39 AM
I thought Governor Schwarzenegger signed a bill that prevents cops in CA from taking our weapons during a disaster?

technique
07-05-2009, 12:39 AM
So, if you die in the shootout. What of your 3 teenage daughters then? :confused:

hopefully they are still shooting.:43:

supermario
07-05-2009, 12:42 AM
I thought Governor Schwarzenegger signed a bill that prevents cops in CA from taking our weapons during a disaster?

+1, I would like to know if this is true also?

nick
07-05-2009, 12:57 AM
It is true. However, when the rule of law is broken (and in this state, and to a lesser degree, in this country it is broken), a law is just a thought expressed on a piece of paper.

berto
07-05-2009, 2:03 AM
I thought Governor Schwarzenegger signed a bill that prevents cops in CA from taking our weapons during a disaster?

It's a piece of paper subject to being ignored. Your recourse would be a lawsuit after the fact which doesn't do you much good during a crisis. It will be up to each agency and each officer to do the right thing. I have faith that most will do the right thing but I fear a small number won't for a variety of reasons.

OutbreakPLZ
07-05-2009, 2:27 AM
I dont have any guns..
srsly..."no officer i have no firearms"

THT
07-05-2009, 5:08 AM
If SHTF, hopefully I had the foresight to see it coming and am already on the backroads in what looks like a POS, rusting station wagon but laden down with food, gear, guns, and ammo, on my way to the pre-determined bug-out location in the middle of nowhere.

AJAX22
07-05-2009, 5:23 AM
srsly..."no officer i have no firearms"

But steve up in the attic with the 30-06, and Bill on the roof down the street with the .308 tend to take it real personal when people talk to me for more than about 60 seconds....

felixthecat1
07-05-2009, 7:24 AM
i need to buy more ammo, if there was a militia in california i would have joined a long time ago.


http://www.whenshtf.com
this is an interesting site to look into, in my opinion.

Nate74
07-05-2009, 7:26 AM
some of you are saying that you would rather fight back against the police than be helpless against rioters, looters and etc. Be realistic. If you shoot back against the police, your *** is going to rot into the ground. There's other things you may be able to do to protect your family, but dying is not one of those things. I understand MOLON LABE, but it just doesnt seem logical to me in this kind of situation.

I have a good friend who's relatives probably said the same thing... right before they put the gold stars on their chests and loaded them onto trains.

SCMA-1
07-05-2009, 8:03 AM
I thought Governor Schwarzenegger signed a bill that prevents cops in CA from taking our weapons during a disaster?

I remember that too and did some research. There was a federal bill (HR 5441) that was passed in response to the gun confiscation spree after Katrina that specifically prohibits all law enforcement (not just federal, but state and local also) from confiscating lawfully owned firearms in times of disaster/emergency. That's why it's even more important to not allow it to happen:

http://lists.powerblogs.com/pipermail/volokh/2006-October/007397.html

SCMA-1

SCMA-1
07-05-2009, 8:20 AM
Here is more on what happened with 70 year old Patricia Konie of New Orleans; apparently she filed a federal lawsuit against the officers and agencies involved in her attack. Most shameful is that this atrocity was directly carried out by CALIFORNIA HIGHWAY PATROL officers.:mad:

http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2005/12/update-on-patricia-konie.html

http://www.newswithviews.com/Pratt/larry94.htm

SCMA-1

bodger
07-05-2009, 8:25 AM
There is no more heinous a crime than abuse of power under color of authority as blatantly shown in that horrific video. Just in the last century, it's estimated that some 150 million citizens of various countries have been murdered by their OWN government; the type of thing witnessed in that video is a precursor to such atrocities. It's bad enough that elected public officials could ever order such a criminal act against the people who elected him (Nagin), but the rogue officers (aka JACK BOOTED THUGS) in that video are equally guilty of this atrocity when they CHOSE to follow unlawful and unconstitutional orders and violate the oath they swore to "uphold and defend the constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic."

That video made me so angry I'm about ready to blow a fuse.:mad::mad:

I recently posted this thread of some youtube videos regarding an organization (Oath Keepers) composed of servicemen and LEO's who have sworn to disobey such unconstitutional orders in the event they are faced with them. Except for a few snarky remarks about one of the individuals in some of the videos, there was EXTREME silence over this controversial subject.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=193125

So maybe the OP's video is shocking/disturbing enough that more people will come forth and give an opinion on the possibility of this happening to us Commiefornians. I'll tell you what; as for me personally, I know what my rights are under the law and if some heavily armed JBT's tried to feloniously assault my mother or family members like they did that poor old lady, I would have no choice but to exercise my lawful right to self defense and LIGHT THEM UP.:43: Make no mistake about it; once any LEO chooses to cross over the line separating lawful police activity from criminal misconduct, then they are NO LONGER representing legitimate law enforcement and should be dealt with like any other common criminal.

What say you, members of LE and military. What would you do if ordered to carry out unconstitutional orders against the people and constitution you swore to defend?

SCMA-1
....all enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC......

If these out of control thugs aren't domestic enemies of the Constitution of the United States, I'll eat my flat hat.

bodger
07-05-2009, 8:34 AM
I have a good friend who's relatives probably said the same thing... right before they put the gold stars on their chests and loaded them onto trains.

EXACTLY!! Who died better, the Jews who allowed themselves to be herded onto trains and endured torturous journeys in cramped rail cars to the gas chambers?
Or the ones in the Warsaw Ghetto who managed to scrape together some meager ordnance and take out a few Nazis before they finally got whacked?

My wife is of Russian Jew derivation. Both sides of her parents' families were nearly wiped out in WWII.

PatriotnMore
07-05-2009, 9:04 AM
I recently posted this thread of some youtube videos regarding an organization (Oath Keepers) composed of servicemen and LEO's who have sworn to disobey such unconstitutional orders in the event they are faced with them. Except for a few snarky remarks about one of the individuals in some of the videos, there was EXTREME silence over this controversial subject.

Not too long ago I was involved in a thread concerning this issue on a military forum, some of them were there. It was very heated, as some saw the disarming as needed to keep crime down.:(

MANY, were of the opinion this was not only wrong, but unconstitutional regardless of where the order came/comes from, and would flat out refuse.

I can tell you, there are true believers on both sides of the issue. It is sad, that among us are those who are willing to follow this and other orders up to and including your death.


Make no mistake about it; once any LEO chooses to cross over the line separating lawful police activity from criminal misconduct, then they are NO LONGER representing legitimate law enforcement and should be dealt with like any other common criminal. SCMA-1

I agree, just be prepared for the worst, if the dung ever hits the Fan on a National level, I have no doubt serious big boy decisions will need to be made. One only needs to read the thread on bad no knock warrants to get a reasonable feel for what we will run into, and not only from LEO.

I am sure we will be told for security and peace we will need to do this, and that, once given into, getting back your property, or your rights, will require you to do, what you should have done, to begin with.

MasterChief
07-05-2009, 9:46 AM
I will be among those for whom a high school will be named in the future.

B Strong
07-05-2009, 9:54 AM
So, if you die in the shootout. What of your 3 teenage daughters then? :confused:

Not to sound dramatic, but I'd rather die on my feet.

Submission never precedes safety.

workinwifdakids
07-05-2009, 10:13 AM
You might be surprised to learn what the National Guard did during the most recent riots in Los Angeles. There are some funny stories, but the fact is they never interfered with any citizen militia or individual. The RKBA was maintained and respected.

Oh, and as far as I'm concerned CHP aren't police officers - they're bullies in uniform.

GoingPro
07-05-2009, 10:42 AM
You might be surprised to learn what the National Guard did during the most recent riots in Los Angeles. There are some funny stories, but the fact is they never interfered with any citizen militia or individual. The RKBA was maintained and respected.

Oh, and as far as I'm concerned CHP aren't police officers - they're bullies in uniform.

CHP's are scissi's. all they do is drive on the highway and give tickets. nothing else!

kgcabs
07-05-2009, 10:43 AM
CHP's are scissi's. all they do is drive on the highway and give tickets. nothing else!


Revenue collectors.

Thanks OP

chsk9
07-05-2009, 10:53 AM
CHP's are scissi's. all they do is drive on the highway and give tickets. nothing else!

Kids let's not get carried away...

LEOs, like every other profession have their share of turds- but that doesn't mean that the vast majority are going to do things that violate our civil liberties in a crisis and talking smack does nothing but devide our already challenged collective.

felixthecat1
07-05-2009, 10:55 AM
Kids let's not get carried away...

LEOs, like every other profession have their share of turds- but that doesn't mean that the vast majority are going to do things that violate our civil liberties in a crisis and talking smack does nothing but devide our already challenged collective.


+1
Some LEOs are bad, some are good, just like some of your neighbors are good, some are bad. it's all relative.

45R
07-05-2009, 11:08 AM
CHP's are scissi's. all they do is drive on the highway and give tickets. nothing else!

Until you've walked a mile on their shoes...
http://jonr.light.is/tmp/warm_cup_STFU.jpg

:43:

kgcabs
07-05-2009, 11:24 AM
Until you've walked a mile on their shoes...
http://jonr.light.is/tmp/warm_cup_STFU.jpg

:43:

Perhaps this should be a seperate thread.

"STFU" that's your response to someones opinion, nice.

Do honestly think the chp gives a damn about anything but raising money for the state?

cedew
07-05-2009, 11:29 AM
Just like any LEO, the majority started off well intended. Now imagine that you find 55% of your job is dealing with people who are pissed off, 40% of your time doing paperwork for those people, and 5% doing something fun (pursuits, shooting bad guys, etc). Now imagine living those days over and over again, it is not likely to do good things to your personality. I don't like them either, but I believe I understand their douchie'ness, and feel kinda bad for em. They're not bad guys, they're just not quite living the dream.

kgcabs
07-05-2009, 11:32 AM
Neither am I, but I am not an a**hole to my neighbors.

epic4444
07-05-2009, 11:34 AM
lettem try...my hands have some damn good grip

socaldsal
07-05-2009, 11:37 AM
You might be surprised to learn what the National Guard did during the most recent riots in Los Angeles. There are some funny stories, but the fact is they never interfered with any citizen militia or individual. The RKBA was maintained and respected.

Guardsmen and their families also have to deal with this state. Many are former AD who tried to go to civvyland full stop halt but couldn't quite shake the bug. Of course many own their own guns.

cedew
07-05-2009, 11:38 AM
And you're a better man for it.

Do you honestly think that the CHP really cares about raising money for the state? At your work, do you really care how much money your employer makes? The answer might be yes, but it's in a round about kind of way. You don't really care, but you kinda do because that's what keeps your job. Same with CHP, they don't give a rats *** about helping California make money, but writing lotsa tickets is good for securing their jobs.

SCMA-1
07-05-2009, 11:45 AM
Come on now...let's not let this thread degenerate into mud slinging. It's unfair to denigrate an entire organization of LEO's for the misdeeds of a few. Many LEO's are good people and take their oath seriously; I have friends who are LEO's and they are no different when in comes to 2A and the consititution than most people on these forums.

If the feces ever hits the oscillator, we need them on our side but we're not going to win them over by unfairly demonizing them. Let's keep this thread on track and leave the personal/group attacks out of it.

SCMA-1

epic4444
07-05-2009, 11:47 AM
And you're a better man for it.

Do you honestly think that the CHP really cares about raising money for the state? At your work, do you really care how much money your employer makes? The answer might be yes, but it's in a round about kind of way. You don't really care, but you kinda do because that's what keeps your job. Same with CHP, they don't give a rats *** about helping California make money, but writing lotsa tickets is good for securing their jobs.

thats a joke right? CHP and most all L.E. agencies have been giving orders to write more tickets to come up with more money...and if they dont there will be layoffs...and you think they wanna get layed off?

no money for the state=no job for them

Honestly you should care how much money your employeer makes...becuase if he isnt making enough...youll go long before him

nicoroshi
07-05-2009, 11:50 AM
I dont have any guns..

Me neither. Lost in tragic boating accident. All at the bottom of the Bay now. :(

God Bless The Mauser
07-05-2009, 12:11 PM
I want to be a Deputy Sheriff and I'm going to start taking classes to get into that soon. If they ever ordered me to confiscate civillian guns during SHTF I would refuse, I would just never do it.

bruss01
07-05-2009, 12:11 PM
Originally Posted by God Bless The Mauser
Another thing that occured to me recently was what do people that need medication do in SHTF? I guess they are just SOL if they don't have extra. My dad needs heart medication and I told him he should think about getting some extra just in case.That's one of the reasons why they shouldn't ban Canadian prescription-drug pharmacies. People should be able to stock up on life-saving medicines. Hell, I'd love to have a few extra Z-Packs lying around just for emergencies; having prescription antibiotics is a must for fighting bacterial infections that could very easily happen during a SHTF situation.

And yet we aren't trusted to buy our own medicines...

I hear overseas pharmacies are very popular, sites such as United Pharmacies make it possible for anyone to purchase a wide variety of medications that require a permit (that's what a prescription is, ridiculous) here in the US. Antibiotics or just about anything, really. Just be sure you know what you're doing with them... A PDR (Physician's Desk Reference), Merc Manual and a medical dictionary are very good to have on hand for home diagnosis and treatment. I don't advocate home treatment without a Dr's supervision (publicly, anyway), but anyone who thinks the ONLY way to get well or stay well comes from a Dr's office or a little white pad and the corner drugstore, has a lot to learn. Sure, you are taking your life in your hands and it is not to be taken lightly, but isn't that what you're doing when you get behind the wheel of a car, or pick up a gun? Same thing... learn some rules, exercise common sense and make use of all available resources to ensure safety. How many people a year are killed by malpractice? More than are accidentally killed by guns, for sure.

GoingPro
07-05-2009, 12:21 PM
Kids let's not get carried away...

LEOs, like every other profession have their share of turds- but that doesn't mean that the vast majority are going to do things that violate our civil liberties in a crisis and talking smack does nothing but devide our already challenged collective.

your right i got carried away. but honestly out of all the Police Officers and Sheriffs we have in California you would think the CHP would have been the ones to stay on the highway and do what they do best. CHP's dont come close to the experience a police officer or a deputy would have. just my .02

cedew
07-05-2009, 12:27 PM
thats a joke right? CHP and most all L.E. agencies have been giving orders to write more tickets to come up with more money...and if they dont there will be layoffs...and you think they wanna get layed off?

no money for the state=no job for them

Honestly you should care how much money your employeer makes...becuase if he isnt making enough...youll go long before himIsn't that almost exactly what I said?

Arteel
07-05-2009, 12:30 PM
LOL, pretty much the same concept with different wording. But this is all besides the point, we should really get back on topic.

Isn't that almost exactly what I said?

SCMA-1
07-05-2009, 12:32 PM
Alright, lets get back to the topic before the mods have to shutdown what is actually a very important topic and thread.

SCMA-1

GoingPro
07-05-2009, 12:33 PM
LOL, pretty much the same concept with different wording. But this is all besides the point, we should really get back on topic.

yes i agree. . . . . .

badicedog
07-05-2009, 12:35 PM
Cops were sent from all over to "help"......Oh no...here it comes....Blackwater and other private security came to "help" too....:TFH::)

I talked to "blackwater" during my training Re: New Orleans. I was told they were deputized as Federal Agents to provide security for the diamond exchange. they said the hardest part was not being allowed to give out water to anyone. I was told they were not involved in any gun confiscation at all.:confused:

SCMA-1
07-05-2009, 12:41 PM
I talked to "blackwater" during my training Re: New Orleans. I was told they were deputized as Federal Agents to provide security for the diamond exchange. they said the hardest part was not being allowed to give out water to anyone. I was told they were not involved in any gun confiscation at all.:confused:

That's good to hear. I'm not surprised the press got that wrong; MSM likes to attack BlackWater.:(

SCMA-1

Sheepdog1968
07-05-2009, 12:48 PM
no offense to any calgunners that are cops, but if SHTF in cali, and there is a call to give up guns, i will be shooting any "government thieves" ringing on my doorbell asking for guns before i let them in the house. i rather die from the hail of bullets, then die from having the lack of a weapon in my hands to protect my family from the looters/rioters/thugs

I haven't worked my way through all of the postings so maybe this has been already said. In the wake of what happened in New Orelans, CA passed a law and Schwartznager signed it. It was designed to prevent the same thing happening here in case of a natural disaster.

I'm sure someone here will be able to find it and post it.

Barney Gumble
07-05-2009, 12:48 PM
I dont know if anyone has posted this video yet, but it pretty much shows that when SHTF this WILL happen here in California as well. Be smart and lets not have our firearms taken away from us. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4 for everyone that thinks it will be a cakewalk taking care of your family in a crisis situation, think again. I dont know exactly what i would do, i need to find a nice hiding place.
[/URL]
Posted in 2007. This is somehow news? Wrong forum too.

Linh
07-05-2009, 12:53 PM
What's wrong with people these days?

What's up with people's fasination with shooting LEOs? Some people need to seek professional help.

Try a day without CHP? They do a lot, I have respect for CHP, I might have gotten a ticket for speeding but they have alway treated me with respect. Can't really say much about some Police department but CHP are friendly and helpful.

If you follow the law you will not get a ticket PERIOD so just because you BROKE THE LAW don't complain about getting a ticket.

What CHP did to that old lady in NO was wrong (in my opinion).

Some people play too much video games and need to chill off that TEOTWAWKI kool aid.

1. Pay off your debts
2. Save your $$$
3. Grow a garden

Sheepdog1968
07-05-2009, 12:54 PM
Another thing that occured to me recently was what do people that need medication do in SHTF? I guess they are just SOL if they don't have extra. My dad needs heart medication and I told him he should think about getting some extra just in case.

The thought has crossed my mind as well. About a year ago I discovered my health insurance allowed me to purchase my medicines via mail (legit USA company provided by my insurer - not comming from Canda or God knows where). BY doing so, you can get a three month supply at once. If you pay close attention to when you can call to get more, there is quite a bit of overlap. By doing this a few times, you can easily end up never having less than a three month supply and up to a six month supply.

For heart meds and non-controlled substances this seems to be a legit way of doing it for things you take and have prescriptions for. Obviously, you need to make sure your meds are stable for that long at home.

cedew
07-05-2009, 1:10 PM
What's wrong with people these days?

What's up with people's fasination with shooting LEOs? Some people need to seek professional help.I don't think there is any fascination with shooting LEO's. The comments are that, once they start breaking the law, they are no longer LEO's, and will be treated as criminals. In fact, LEO's who violate our rights are worse than criminals, because they are in a trusted position.

The video is pretty disturbing, and makes me want to own unregistered guns.

SCMA-1
07-05-2009, 1:39 PM
I haven't worked my way through all of the postings so maybe this has been already said. In the wake of what happened in New Orelans, CA passed a law and Schwartznager signed it. It was designed to prevent the same thing happening here in case of a natural disaster.

I'm sure someone here will be able to find it and post it.

Congress passed a federal bill that does just that. I don't remember a state law; perhaps you can find it for us. This is the federal bill:

http://lists.powerblogs.com/pipermail/volokh/2006-October/007397.html

SCMA-1

offdeez
07-05-2009, 1:55 PM
All this chit chat about new laws passed in regards to the Katrina aftermath and what happened there, but weren't there laws on the books before Katrina i.e. the constitution and it still happened, so unless you plan on printing the law and tacking it to every door in your city in hopes that it reaches the soul of the LEO who's a knocking what good does another law do when the ones who are supposed to be protecting us by the law are the one's who are taking the guns?? BTW I am glad I stumbled across this thread, it gives me some mind exercise!

chsk9
07-05-2009, 2:30 PM
thats a joke right? CHP and most all L.E. agencies have been giving orders to write more tickets to come up with more money...



My friend- you are not thinking things through. Don't break the law and you will not have to worry about being "taxed" for it.

Again I would suggest that the vast majority of LEO's are not your enemy under any circumstances related to the OP and spreading FUD benifits none on our side.

Ruiner
07-05-2009, 2:55 PM
Not to sound dramatic, but I'd rather die on my feet.

Submission never precedes safety.

Oh yes I agree but I also have to think of how to remain here to protect my family. So, until I come up with a better plan, I lost all my guns in a tragic boating accident. :p

GoodEyeSniper
07-05-2009, 3:17 PM
I'm wondering. Are these all cases of "should've kept your mouth shut"? They ask if you have guns, you reply "no, sir" etc... or would they search your home/boat anyways?

Really frightening video though. Glad to see the NRA trial got the word out it was illegal and unconstitutional, might keep other local governments from trying the same in the next natural disaster. But it might not....

was watching cops the other day. The officers saw a couple suspicious 20 year old guys walking through a parking lot, no probable cause, nothing. Just asked to talk to them, and after a couple minutes asked to search them. The kids GAVE PERMISSION to be searched, even though they had drugs on themselves... When they found the drugs they said, these aren't my pants I didn't know those were in there....

hawk81
07-05-2009, 4:41 PM
Brother, no one is taking my firearms without a fire fight. Two things are possible, they will be dead or I will be dead. That is what will happen.






I dont know if anyone has posted this video yet, but it pretty much shows that when SHTF this WILL happen here in California as well. Be smart and lets not have our firearms taken away from us. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4 for everyone that thinks it will be a cakewalk taking care of your family in a crisis situation, think again. I dont know exactly what i would do, i need to find a nice hiding place.

Another video. cops in Boston searching teenagers homes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_1ushPq1xg

LesGrossman41510
07-05-2009, 4:47 PM
i need to buy more ammo, if there was a militia in california i would have joined a long time ago.

where is the sign up list, seriously, i will not alow punk thug government agents to infringe on my rights. watching that video made me feel so hopeless yet so angry that brain dead politians can screw things up this bad. WHAT CAN WE DO!!!?!?!?!?

epic4444
07-05-2009, 5:10 PM
My friend- you are not thinking things through. Don't break the law and you will not have to worry about being "taxed" for it.

Again I would suggest that the vast majority of LEO's are not your enemy under any circumstances related to the OP and spreading FUD benifits none on our side.

my friend getting a ticket for going 7 miles over the speed limit was unheard of a few months ago...now its common place

GoingPro
07-05-2009, 5:17 PM
my friend getting a ticket for going 7 miles over the speed limit was unheard of a few months ago...now its common place

yeah, someone needs to pay californias debt. Plenty of tickets have risen in price as well.

epic4444
07-05-2009, 5:18 PM
Isn't that almost exactly what I said?

i was trying to be rude...our views are similiar but i think most CHP/L.E. do care bout making the state money...and i really dont think people want to hurt cops...but honestly when i get pulled over 80 percent of the time i get treated like ****

818gtiguy
07-05-2009, 5:31 PM
As Mr.Heston said...."From my cold,dead hands".....That is the only way my guns will be taken...:38:

Baxter
07-05-2009, 10:52 PM
Wow.

till44
07-05-2009, 11:32 PM
I've always followed my Dad's advice to not give any authority reason to hassle me. That's why I have picked up a few bumper stickers for the SHTF scenario. Just before I load my guns in their discreet cases and hide them in my car I slap a few of these on my bumper... http://www.stickergiant.com/Merchant2/imgs/450/g662_450.jpeghttp://papundits.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/sticker_gunfree2_small.jpghttp://images8.cafepress.com/product/154630828v10_350x350_Front.jpghttp://www.stickergiant.com/Merchant2/imgs/450/y1670_450.jpeg http://www.stickergiant.com/Merchant2/imgs/450/g679_450.jpeg http://www.stickergiant.com/Merchant2/imgs/450/fgunviolence_450.jpeg

SDgarrick
07-06-2009, 12:55 AM
What use are 2A rights if government and police can arbitrarily suspend them.

Completely unethical.

AM9000
07-06-2009, 6:49 AM
SHTF or not... the rules of talking to LEOs would be the same.

Also, Unless I am in-transit to a bug-out-location. I would have little reason to have a rifle on me. In SHTF, If I felt I needed to carry, I would probably opt for something much more concealable. Otherwise, If I were transporting my guns to the BOL, I would have them stashed safely. After all, I have my rifle for home/BOL defense.

In any case, I would never give permission to search. I would not answer any questions that may lead to a search and seizure. And If I were asked If I had any weapons, It would be a question that told me they were looking to take them, and I would answer "That I most certainly did not... Don't believe in the damn things".

5hundo
07-06-2009, 7:32 AM
The cops aren't necessarily the "good guys"...

I've known too many cops to trust them all unilaterally...

gn3hz3ku1*
07-06-2009, 7:41 AM
Very few cops will be doing this.. only the ones who havent read and understand the constitution...

also i am sorry to any LEO who wants to rob americans of our rights... in my eyes you just spat on your oath of office..

i will have to protect my fam and I. sorry but i the gov spent more money to train me than to train you... soooo uhhhh sorry you lose.

MasterYong
07-06-2009, 9:47 AM
some of you are saying that you would rather fight back against the police than be helpless against rioters, looters and etc. Be realistic. If you shoot back against the police, your *** is going to rot into the ground. There's other things you may be able to do to protect your family, but dying is not one of those things. I understand MOLON LABE, but it just doesnt seem logical to me in this kind of situation.

"...I understand MOLON LABE..."

NO.

NO. YOU. DON'T.

Attitudes like THAT are what allow such confiscations to happen in the first place.

In my opinion, ANYONE that complies with a blanket order to confiscate firearms, and ANYONE that actually hands over their guns when asked, are in the same boat. Both are just as guilty of the murder, mayhem, rioting, looting, etc. that follow.

If you give up your guns just because the government asks you to, you are responsible for whatever happens. If you refuse, then THEY are responsible. Don't give them power. What was the old saying? Something like "All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing?" If you comply, and give up your guns when the order comes, then you're just as evil as the folks that took them.

calixt0
07-06-2009, 10:17 AM
In my opinion because of their oath any military or LEO who was part of this (regardless of orders)needs to be sued. If I'm ordered to kill a neighbor by a LEO I'm still held responsible... These people who are doing this type of thing are often drunk with power and will never stop to consider if they are keeping their oath until directly held responsible for it.

Just my thoughts

Chatterbox
07-06-2009, 12:01 PM
Yeah, if those cops are gonna seize my stash I'm going to unload tons of lead on all of them and kill them byatches like tools that they are cause I'm cool and tactical and could totally waste all of them.

:rolleyes:

Or I could decide that I'm more useful to my family alive and not dead.

Scratch705
07-06-2009, 12:13 PM
Yeah, if those cops are gonna seize my stash I'm going to unload tons of lead on all of them and kill them byatches like tools that they are cause I'm cool and tactical and could totally waste all of them.

:rolleyes:

Or I could decide that I'm more useful to my family alive and not dead.

wow biased much? :rolleyes:

i'm sure you will be so useful when a group of thugs armed with their unconfiscated guns come to your house. maybe you can make them sandwiches while they rob you

AM9000
07-06-2009, 1:03 PM
Seems to me that if LEO's were to use the registration lists to try and round up guns; it would be the beginning of a intense increase in black market fire arms sales... and I think the powers that be know this.

Look at what happened just by electing Obama. Now imagine the flood of unregistered guns... People would be paying anything.


Also... There is a middle ground between -shooting it out with the police instead of giving them your guns, and not just HANDING OVER your guns.

I would be smart and do everything in my power to stop them from first, even knowing that I own any firearms and second from finding them if they decide to look. You are not obligated to cooperate with them.

Joe
07-06-2009, 1:08 PM
I dont have any guns..

x 2

bodger
07-06-2009, 1:09 PM
"...I understand MOLON LABE..."

NO.

NO. YOU. DON'T.

Attitudes like THAT are what allow such confiscations to happen in the first place.

In my opinion, ANYONE that complies with a blanket order to confiscate firearms, and ANYONE that actually hands over their guns when asked, are in the same boat. Both are just as guilty of the murder, mayhem, rioting, looting, etc. that follow.

If you give up your guns just because the government asks you to, you are responsible for whatever happens. If you refuse, then THEY are responsible. Don't give them power. What was the old saying? Something like "All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing?" If you comply, and give up your guns when the order comes, then you're just as evil as the folks that took them.
EXACTLY! YES!
The way things are in this state right now regarding gun laws and the makers of same, I think the only thing keeping them from passing one large type all-encompassing law that makes all firearms illegal to own, is the fact that they know that gun owners do exist that would die before willingly relenquishing their firearms.

Let the powers that be get the idea that they could actually take guns without at least a few bloody battles, and watch how fast someone will be at your door to take your guns.

Molon Labe is not a peaceful invitation, it's a threat. Make no mistake about it.

MasterYong
07-06-2009, 1:29 PM
EXACTLY! YES!
The way things are in this state right now regarding gun laws and the makers of same, I think the only thing keeping them from passing one large type all-encompassing law that makes all firearms illegal to own, is the fact that they know that gun owners do exist that would die before willingly relenquishing their firearms.

Let the powers that be get the idea that they could actually take guns without at least a few bloody battles, and watch how fast someone will be at your door to take your guns.

Molon Labe is not a peaceful invitation, it's a threat. Make no mistake about it.

Exactly.

If folks on here think I'm trying to be 'tough' or some kind of 'big man' and that I'm not looking at the big picture listen here:

I understand that I am of more use to my family alive than dead. They are also of more "use" to me alive than dead. I am not confident that the latter is a likelihood if "they" come to take my guns- as there would certainly be a sinister reason for the confiscation. In all honesty, the possibility absolutely TERRIFIES me. I am NOT tough, and who knows? When the time comes, maybe I'll fold and whimper like a little baby with all those LEOs staring me down with weapons drawn. I've never been in a situation that was THAT high-stress. Either way, I'd rather not make the conscious decision ahead of time to let others dictate what rights I have and at what time. IMHO, to do that would be truly cowardly beyond any fearful reaction to being threatened. In fact I recall reading somewhere "Courage is not the absence of fear but the ability to act in the presence of fear". So, ideally, if need be, I will fight to defend my rights and by proxy my family's safety. From my cold dead hands, one bullet at a time. In the real world, that may not be how it pans out for me, but without principal a man doesn't really have anything. At least I have my principals.

GuyW
07-06-2009, 1:32 PM
Be realistic. If you shoot back against the police, your *** is going to rot into the ground.

“…At what exact point then, should one resist the communists?”

“How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family...?”

“Or, if during periods of mass arrests people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand.

….The police…. would have quickly suffered a shortage of officers …and notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt."

(The Gulag Archipelago)
-Alexandr Solzhenitsyn- Nobel Prize winner, 11 year survivor of the Soviet concentration camps.
.

OCMI_Teddy
07-06-2009, 3:03 PM
I've always followed my Dad's advice to not give any authority reason to hassle me. That's why I have picked up a few bumper stickers for the SHTF scenario. Just before I load my guns in their discreet cases and hide them in my car I slap a few of these on my bumper... []
Now here's a man thats thinkin! :chris:

Flying Bones
07-06-2009, 6:09 PM
I've always followed my Dad's advice to not give any authority reason to hassle me. That's why I have picked up a few bumper stickers for the SHTF scenario. Just before I load my guns in their discreet cases and hide them in my car I slap a few of these on my bumper... http://www.stickergiant.com/Merchant2/imgs/450/g662_450.jpeghttp://papundits.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/sticker_gunfree2_small.jpghttp://images8.cafepress.com/product/154630828v10_350x350_Front.jpghttp://www.stickergiant.com/Merchant2/imgs/450/y1670_450.jpeg http://www.stickergiant.com/Merchant2/imgs/450/g679_450.jpeg http://www.stickergiant.com/Merchant2/imgs/450/fgunviolence_450.jpeg

Pure geniusism.

ZombieKiller
07-06-2009, 6:11 PM
Where do you get those stickers??!!!

SubstanceP
07-06-2009, 6:36 PM
Molon Labe is not a peaceful invitation, it's a threat. Make no mistake about it.

+10,000 ;)

Have it written across my car right under my Gadsden.

Seems some are catchin' on to its significance. A lib who found himself outnumbered at our local July 4th party said he understood the decal. He left the party early. :43: His wife, (a Conservative/Libertarian) told us later in the evening she had had all she could take of her milqutoast mate and was divorcing him.

popeye4
07-06-2009, 8:24 PM
This is why I still have my Mini 14. I've got something to give them when they come for my guns! ;)

Serioiusly, when the SHTF it probably won't happen overnight (except in very localized areas). One who has more than one firearm should have time to disperse at least part of their collection (even if it is behind a heat register). I have quite a few firearms in my safe, and a significant number are "off paper" (i.e., I've had them for many years, bought them second hand in another state when I lived there, etc). I could sacrifice several weapons and still be armed to the teeth.

The difficult question would be "Who will be first?" How do you decide if this is just a passing over-reaction by government or a time when shooting at an LEO is justified? I'll bet that if someone had shot one of those officers in the video, they'd be doing hard time for a long time, even if the officers were totally in the wrong.

This may also be another good reason to consider "bugging in" as opposed to "bugging out". I can see roadblocks/vehicle searches being set up way before the door to door stuff happens (ever try to get out of the Bay Area on a long weekend?). And I don't think that getting cute by refusing to answer questions will work in that situation. If they've thrown out the book on legal searches, etc., in an organized manner they'll probably not be so patient with someone who won't answer their questions or tries to play "lawyer" ("Please pull in to the right behind that blue Chevy for some further questions, encouragement courtesy of a rubber hose...").

When SHTF (whatever that really means), confusion will reign, disinformation will be prevalent, the news reporters will be breathlessly reporting all sorts of nasty rumors, and government will overreact. Maintaining a low profile might be the best option.

And my last point: why is this thread in the "centerfire rifles" section? :confused:

IrishJoe3
07-06-2009, 8:44 PM
thats a joke right? CHP and most all L.E. agencies have been giving orders to write more tickets to come up with more money...

Really? Is that your opinion, or can you prove that indeed, the "CHP and most all L.E. agencies" have been in fact given that order.

:rolleyes:

cdtx2001
07-06-2009, 8:47 PM
I am really disgusted at what our country has become. We are no different than what the original founders hated about England. The govt. has become the king and we are the subjects, although you can count me out for being loyal.

Linh
07-06-2009, 9:25 PM
I am really disgusted at what our country has become. We are no different than what the original founders hated about England. The govt. has become the king and we are the subjects, although you can count me out for being loyal.

You pay your taxes.
Stop at a red light
Pull over when there is flashing lights behind you

That's all "The King" ask so keep up the good work

So what is loyalty?:confused::confused::confused:

till44
07-06-2009, 9:55 PM
Where do you get those stickers??!!!

Here's the links:

http://www.stickergiant.com/get-real_y1670.html
http://www.stickergiant.com/shame-on-the-nra_g662.html
http://www.stickergiant.com/melt-all-guns_g679.html
http://www.stickergiant.com/end-gun-violence_fgunviolence.html

br2121
07-06-2009, 10:03 PM
I just finished reading Patriots: A novel of survival in the coming collapse by James Wesley Rawles. It's a great read. it touches on a lot of the issues brought up in this thread. I highly recommend reading before the SHTF.

thebullet
07-07-2009, 12:52 AM
There is no more heinous a crime than abuse of power under color of authority as blatantly shown in that horrific video. Just in the last century, it's estimated that some 150 million citizens of various countries have been murdered by their OWN government; the type of thing witnessed in that video is a precursor to such atrocities. It's bad enough that elected public officials could ever order such a criminal act against the people who elected him (Nagin), but the rogue officers (aka JACK BOOTED THUGS) in that video are equally guilty of this atrocity when they CHOSE to follow unlawful and unconstitutional orders and violate the oath they swore to "uphold and defend the constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic."

That video made me so angry I'm about ready to blow a fuse.:mad::mad:

I recently posted this thread of some youtube videos regarding an organization (Oath Keepers) composed of servicemen and LEO's who have sworn to disobey such unconstitutional orders in the event they are faced with them. Except for a few snarky remarks about one of the individuals in some of the videos, there was EXTREME silence over this controversial subject.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=193125

So maybe the OP's video is shocking/disturbing enough that more people will come forth and give an opinion on the possibility of this happening to us Commiefornians. I'll tell you what; as for me personally, I know what my rights are under the law and if some heavily armed JBT's tried to feloniously assault my mother or family members like they did that poor old lady, I would have no choice but to exercise my lawful right to self defense and LIGHT THEM UP.:43: Make no mistake about it; once any LEO chooses to cross over the line separating lawful police activity from criminal misconduct, then they are NO LONGER representing legitimate law enforcement and should be dealt with like any other common criminal.

What say you, members of LE and military. What would you do if ordered to carry out unconstitutional orders against the people and constitution you swore to defend?

SCMA-1

+1. i could not stand to see some ***** abuse anyone in my family like that. I say let freedom ring, freedom is my ar's name.well that was untill i lost her in a boating accident.

Mississippi
07-07-2009, 10:54 AM
WOW!!!! I too LOST my guns in a boating accident! This is spreading faster than swine flu! :eek:

But if you invade my space one of those lost guns might somehow raise from it's watery grave.

stix213
07-07-2009, 11:58 AM
This is really troubling...

But personally, I would have hopped in the car with my dogs & guns and left town BEFORE the hurricane hit. That's just me.

Kokopelli
07-07-2009, 3:14 PM
I think the best reply to law enforcement asking if I have any weapons would be, "I have nothing illegal."

bodger
07-07-2009, 4:20 PM
This is really troubling...

But personally, I would have hopped in the car with my dogs & guns and left town BEFORE the hurricane hit. That's just me.

Yeah, but what if, in the case of a CA disaster, it's an earthquake that rolled through without warning. Roads are blocked and you CAN'T get out.
And the cops are knocking on your door to make you leave the area because it's not safe. And meanwile, give us your guns because there's been a lot of street crime.....

I wonder if the CHP would treat us any differently than that trooper did to the old lady in N.O.
He seemed plenty willing to violate her rights without hesitation.

bodger
07-07-2009, 4:23 PM
I think the best reply to law enforcement asking if I have any weapons would be, "I have nothing illegal."

It would appear that most of the guns they were seizing in New Orleans weren't "illegal" either.
Nor was that the reason why they were being confiscated.

How 'bout: "Get the F**k off my property if you don't have probable cause or a warrant!"

technique
07-07-2009, 4:24 PM
Yeah, but what if, in the case of a CA disaster, it's an earthquake that rolled through without warning. Roads are blocked and you CAN'T get out.
And the cops are knocking on your door to make you leave the area because it's not safe. And meanwile, give us your guns because there's been a lot of street crime.....

I wonder if the CHP would treat us any differently than that trooper did to the old lady in N.O.
He seemed plenty willing to violate her rights without hesitation.

You can always head out on foot....getting into a vehicle has always seemed silly to me in a disaster.

GoingPro
07-07-2009, 9:22 PM
It would appear that most of the guns they were seizing in New Orleans weren't "illegal" either.
Nor was that the reason why they were being confiscated.

How 'bout: "Get the F**k off my property if you don't have probable cause or a warrant!"

exactly!:chris:

HK Dave
07-07-2009, 9:28 PM
Very few cops will be doing this.. only the ones who havent read and understand the constitution...


Sorry to say brother, but of the many LEOs I know... most haven't a clue about the 2nd amendment or even simple CA gun laws.

I remember one of my LEO buddies swearing to me that if I crossed state lines with my firearm, it was a federal offense punishable by 10 years in prison...

....

uh no.

HK Dave
07-07-2009, 9:31 PM
How 'bout: "Get the F**k off my property if you don't have probable cause or a warrant!"

I'd also hand them my cell phone and say, "Here's my lawyer."

Ruiner
07-07-2009, 9:33 PM
WOW!!!! I too LOST my guns in a boating accident! This is spreading faster than swine flu! :eek:

But if you invade my space one of those lost guns might somehow raise from it's watery grave.

They really should issue a recall on these boats.

GoingPro
07-07-2009, 9:43 PM
They really should issue a recall on these boats.

yeah where can i buy one so i have that excuse too! :cool2:

toopercentmlk
07-07-2009, 9:58 PM
If your like me...your buddies know where to go when SHTF, YOUR house!

About 7-10 of you and your armed buddies saying "no, I will not give up my constitutional rights" should give a clear message. If not....may God have mercy on their souls. ;)

I'm with you on this one, I will not claim to give my guns back bullets first in a situation like this, especially on an internet discussions board but I see no problem with standing up for your rights... that is NOT illegal.

cfm117
07-07-2009, 11:22 PM
This is probably what you should prepare for, as well as any sort of cataclysmic disaster.

I just added an x for Govt healthcare, energy taxes,imf money and acorn and the census. Put this on your fridge and mark it as it happens.


(x) Government takes control of the banks
(x) Government takes control of the car companies
(x) Government takes control of health care
( ) Union thugs start taking over more and more businesses following the passage of “card check” bill
( ) Unemployment rate rises as businesses can no longer afford to hire employees due to union demands
(x) New census report results in new redistricting that gives Democrats a huge advantage in future elections
( ) Political speech from the opposition is regulated on the airwaves using “diversity” requirement
( ) Gun control law enacted to require every single privately owned firearm be registered with the feds
( ) Government takes control of insurance companies
( ) National sovereignty is lost to a globalized version of the European Union
(x) More and more U.S. tax dollars are funneled into the IMF and used for welfare in foreign countries
( ) Our kids are subjected to mandatory "volunteerism" via Obama’s “youth corps” as specified in the new GIVE bill
(x) New energy taxes and drilling bans result in $5 per gallon and rising at the pump
( ) Government steps in with price controls on gas, resulting in shortages and long lines at the pump (Carter, the sequel)
( ) Government takes control of all oil/energy companies
( ) Rolling brown outs and government mandated power rationing occurs nation-wide
( ) Everyone stops buying our treasury bonds, resulting in the fed having to print massive amounts of new currency
( ) Inflation goes through the roof as stimulus spending comes home to roost and the money presses are running overtime
( ) Government blames the rich for high prices and steps in with more taxes, subsidies and price controls
( ) Grocery store shelves start running empty due to federal price fixing
( ) New taxes on companies and the rich drive the productive citizens out of business or out of the country
( ) Restrictions are placed on foreign travel, visa extensions are no longer granted
( ) Companies are banned from relocating overseas, causing many to go out of business
( ) Severe economic downturn continues as unemployment rises even further
( ) The presidential two-term limit is removed and new executive powers are added with increasing frequency
( ) Social Security goes bankrupt. Private 401K accounts are nationalized and redistributed
( ) Health care is severely rationed as the system nears bankruptcy. Deaths among the elderly skyrocket
( ) A-bomb made in Iran goes off in New York harbor
( ) Public panics and turns what few freedoms it has left over to the government in the name of “safety”
( ) Guns are seized from all citizens
( ) NATO forces are brought in to help enforce martial law and gun confiscation
( ) Crime, disease and starvation are rampant
( ) Criminal gangs now control the flow of most goods through a black market
( ) Transition to a third world economy controlled by an oligarchy of corrupt socialists is now complete
( ) Your own kid reports you to an equality enforcement officer for trying to grow your own food
( ) You die in a prison labor camp where 40% of the nations population is enslaved to extract “from each according to his ability,” the product of which is given “to each according to his need.”

RolinThundr
07-08-2009, 12:28 AM
I haven't had time to read all the posts, sorry if it's been said once but...

one of the sad things about all this is that, because no receipts were issued and officers/military personnel did not write up reports, there is no link from many gun owners to their guns. Many gun owners lost their records (receipts) that would prove ownership for their guns and due to the stringent return policy implemented in the Louisiana Parishes, will never get their guns back.

My suggestion: Get an ammo can (their weatherproofed/resistant) and a lock for it. Put important documents (marriage docs, birth certificates, SSN cards, passports, emergency cash) and firearms receipts into it- mark it so you know its docs, not ammo. Then put it in a safe place. I also suggest additional copies of everything hidden in unsuspecting places just to be on the safe side. If the SHTF and you need to move, just grab it along with your other necessities and go.

hnoppenberger
07-08-2009, 7:57 AM
id much rather die then let anyone enter my home and take stuff. no matter who they are. real simply choice for most conservative thinkers.
someone asks nice- i'd give up food.

dboy4ever
07-08-2009, 9:49 AM
Correct me if I'm too naive here... but if cops are at my door asking for me to surrender my weapons, the least I can do is ask for a search warrant. Maybe a judge will give out search warrants like candy in a SHTF situation, maybe they won't. But at least it can't hurt to ask for one.

The poor old lady in the video just gave the cops permission to enter.

Francis Marion
07-08-2009, 12:23 PM
Are police not obligated to refuse to carry out immoral orders?
Do police swear to uphold and defend the Constitution?
Two gaping problems are evident here,

One, we see an example where local and federal law enforcement and military obeyed orders, irrespective of their moral force.

Two, people in authority have no moral sense allied to the Bill of Rights.

The people are to blame.
One, the people appointed and trusted immoral people with authority.
Two, the gate keepers of social order and duly appointed, armed guardians of Liberty, our police and military, have shown that they will trample the Bill of Rights when ordered to do so. They'll go along with the program to keep the paychecks coming in time of crisis, when ordered to do so rather than refuse to carry out unconstitutional orders. This breaches the trust and mutual respect which must exist between the people and law enforcement, at least in a free country. No such mutual respect need define an authoritarian society.

Authority does not trust the people.

The people do not elect moral representatives.

Gate keepers are content 'just following orders'.

We have precisely the social order and state of Liberty we have chosen and worked hard to institutionalize over generations.

Francis Marion
07-08-2009, 12:55 PM
You pay your taxes.
Stop at a red light
Pull over when there is flashing lights behind you

That's all "The King" ask so keep up the good work

So what is loyalty?:confused::confused::confused:

Linh,
"The people" do all those things because they trust the police.
When the police execute immoral orders, this crucial trust is broken.
It's hard to imagine a more corrosive agent against Liberty than policies, willingly implemented by persons in uniform, which deny the rights of the people.
As the relationship between the police and the people deteriorates, we infer something about the health of Liberty in our country.
Robust level of trust, robust level of Liberty.
Grave suspicion and mistrust, however, between the people and the government indicate a cancer in the body politic.
The neglect by the people and the abuse by the police widen the chasm. If people are more interested in celebrities, idleness and frivolity than the serious business of Liberty, then we're finished as a free nation.
That's both the bad news and the good news.
The good news is that we can turn the momentum to a better direction, if we care for this precious Liberty.
There is no fast fix, there is no sure fix.
Insomuch as we educate our families, speak up in classes, vote, and insist upon your rights, then we cultivate Liberty.
Our duty to our country is to insist upon our rights and thereby maintain the necessary mutual respect between the people and the government. Any other course isn't American. Throwing up our hands isn't American. We are a can-do people, we have a generous measure of Liberty remaining and some lost Liberty to reclaim, but surely, even if it takes generations to do so, if enough people work for it, we'll prevail.
Don't cede the long view to the Marxists. We can work diligently also over generations in the preservation and defense of our rights.
But do something concrete, I challenge anybody reading this.
To keep to ourselves, as too many have done for too long, will only malnourish Liberty unto extinction.
Interested in Liberty and gun rights? Pass along your arms bearing heritage to your friends and family.
Learn how to shoot well enough to teach.
Learn the basics; if you can't state them, you don't know them, can't teach them.

A concise means to owning the basics of teaching:
www.appleseedinfo.org

hawk81
07-08-2009, 3:12 PM
We need to just look at the nazis in the 1930's. Our people are no different. We are a nation of sheeple.

AggregatVier
07-08-2009, 8:58 PM
So did Patty Konie ever get her day in court? Were the two CHP officers ever identified by name?

AJAX22
07-09-2009, 4:35 AM
We may need this man one day

http://www.obsessedwithfilm.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/v-for-vendetta-20051208093357493-000.jpg

Its just a mask

bodger
07-09-2009, 7:55 AM
You can always head out on foot....getting into a vehicle has always seemed silly to me in a disaster.

Talk about Loaded Open Carry!

locosway
07-10-2009, 8:11 AM
Here's the part that bothers me. Say CA has a major disaster and Katrina type confiscations go into effect because there is such a large population of gang members here.

Is there really an option to not give up your weapons? Obviously you could shoot first and ask questions later if someone is on your property who is armed. However, wouldn't this bring a fairly large armed response? LE is the largest gang in the US. You shoot one of them, they bring more until they win.

So, while we might be legal to do so under the original constitution to keep and bear arms during a time of emergency, I feel that if anyone were to try and uphold their rights it would be another Ruby Ridge or Waco incident.

How is it that we've come to take LE's word as law. I understand their responsibilities and I very much appreciate them and the danger they often face. However, there should be more recourse for them if they do infringe on citizens rights. They should be required to know the laws they're enforcing. It shouldn't be where they can arrest you and then try and charge you later, thhey should have a good reason to arrest you in the first place.

deebix
07-10-2009, 8:55 AM
^ in response: If there is a katrina-like incident, I don't think you should worry about the ramifications of LE coming to your house specifically. If they do show up, odds are you pissed someone off enough to get them there. If they steal your rights and property away, how are they any different than armed bandits, whom has a lot of friends, making their way into your house.
My vote goes to find out intentions, and then kill or be raped or pillaged of rights and liberty. Few incidents of this would deter any future action of such nature.

All it takes is one dude with a scoped mosin to keep 50+ people at bay. :43:

ripcurlksm
07-10-2009, 10:01 AM
1 person resists unlawful disarmament == 100 police show up.

100 people resist unlawful disarmament == 100 police hopefully realize there is more important work to be done in a crisis.

k1dude
07-10-2009, 2:52 PM
1 person resists unlawful disarmament == 100 police show up.

100 people resist unlawful disarmament == 100 police hopefully realize there is more important work to be done in a crisis.

But who is willing to be the first to resist? Or the second or third or fourth? I suspect it's going to take a bunch of shootouts/deaths for a scenario like that to take hold.

A lawyer once told me it's better to be a follower, not a pioneer. He said pioneer's always wound up nameless in a ditch with an arrow in their back.

WeekendWarrior
07-10-2009, 2:59 PM
I would never have surrendered the firearms in the first place. Why? Because you do not have to answer the question in the first place. They should have kept their mouth shut, and asked if they were suspected of a crime. If not, the cops have no probable cause. If they do suspect you of a crime then all you have to say is I am not answering any questions unless my lawyer is present. if you wasnt to search my vehicle, you will need a search warrent to do it. End of story. From there, don't say another word. Maybe you get detained for hours, or whatever it is, but they will eventually have to release you. If they search the car/boat without a warrant, well they will have to answer for that in court.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1szBxnAEsMw&feature=PlayList&p=9CDFD99BEFA7E9CB&index=0

Check out this video series for some great insight into the laws regarding carrying and declaring firearms to an LEO

Scratch705
07-10-2009, 3:05 PM
i'm willing to be first. since our city rents sheriffs from our neighboring city.

they won't be willing to commit resources to get 1 guy disarmed if they know i'll shoot back. not when they have two entire cities to police. but i'm sure they will come back once national guard units arrive to take me away....

weekendwarrior: this isn't about the regular situation, but when SHTF, when most likely city infrastructure is down, a lot of the rights/legal procedures are thrown out the window at that time. if the cops ge the list of gun owners (through DROS paperwork) they will come, they will search, and they won't take No for answer. that is unless they follow the federal(or was it state?) bill that disallowed disarming of citizens in SHTF situations that was put into place after katrina.

toopercentmlk
07-10-2009, 5:25 PM
i'm willing to be first. since our city rents sheriffs from our neighboring city.

they won't be willing to commit resources to get 1 guy disarmed if they know i'll shoot back. not when they have two entire cities to police. but i'm sure they will come back once national guard units arrive to take me away....

weekendwarrior: this isn't about the regular situation, but when SHTF, when most likely city infrastructure is down, a lot of the rights/legal procedures are thrown out the window at that time. if the cops ge the list of gun owners (through DROS paperwork) they will come, they will search, and they won't take No for answer. that is unless they follow the federal(or was it state?) bill that disallowed disarming of citizens in SHTF situations that was put into place after katrina.

Where is that bill? I want to make laminated copies of it with important sections highlighted to nail to my door!

Scratch705
07-10-2009, 5:39 PM
not sure on the exact name, but i do remember that there was one signed either at federal level or at least CA state level after the whole debacle with the Katrina gun-seizing. unless i am remembering wrong.... to which i hope not

elSquid
07-10-2009, 5:46 PM
Where is that bill? I want to make laminated copies of it with important sections highlighted to nail to my door!

AB1645

http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/NewsReleases.aspx?ID=10152

Fairfax, VA - California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger has signed into law National Rifle Association (NRA)-backed legislation to prevent the confiscation of firearms from law-abiding Californians during a future state of emergency or natural disaster, as happened in New Orleans in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. Assembly Bill 1645 was introduced in the General Assembly by Assemblyman Doug LaMalfa (R-2).


-- Michael

a1fabweld
07-11-2009, 12:39 AM
Nobody knows what will go down when SHTF. All the LE that I personally know, have told me that if SHTF, & their superiors asked them to go door to door confiscating guns, that would be the day they turned in their badge & joined us. The cops I know are just like you & me but with a badge. Decent folks with good values. I'm not saying that they outnumber the LE that are simply "order takers" with no regard of the constitution or morals. If SHTF like it would in my portrayal, Joe-blow citizen telling a mob of cops standing on your porch asking for your guns to "talk to my lawyer" or "where's your search warrant" isn't going to keep them out. My idea of SHTF is where there infrastructure has collapsed & things are out of control. Especially now with all the Sac. Co. Sheriff layoffs & the police force being crippled, unless they bring in the military, the cops are outnumbered in an area like Sacramento, I don't know, like 10,000/1. Given a situation like the Rodney King riots, when there is a total state of chaos, what are the cops going to do? I have to beat around the bush on this next one, but if "something" happened to our newly elected leader of the nation like what happened to JFK, the whole country will come unglued. I don't expect there to be time, patience, or concern for formalities. I think the Calguns foundation should get a fund going to purchase a large chunk of land (20+ acres) in the mountains to be used as a retreat for calguns members to head to in case of a SHTF situation. A specified membership fee will get you a guaranteed lot/space on the property to set up camp or bring your RV/trailer. It could also be used as an annual Calguns "meet & shoot" weekend or something? Maybe I'm just dreaming. LOL!

GuyW
07-13-2009, 11:35 AM
I think the Calguns foundation should get a fund going to purchase a large chunk of land (20+ acres) in the mountains to be used as a retreat for calguns members to head to in case of a SHTF situation.....Maybe I'm just dreaming. LOL!

Uh, yeah - absolutely dreaming....
.

GoingPro
07-13-2009, 1:10 PM
Uh, yeah - absolutely dreaming....
.

dreaming is good though....imagine if we collect monthly from members in 10 years we will have something.

GuyW
07-13-2009, 1:16 PM
dreaming is good though....imagine if we collect monthly from members in 10 years we will have something.

Well, I was thinking about 30k Calgunners on 20 acres.....plus their families, friends, and acquaintances.....640 acres would be too small....
.

510shooter510
07-13-2009, 1:58 PM
I will catch flak for this...
Does anyone here really think that they would have reacted differently as the police officer in that old womans home?
I agree that they should not have entered the house in the first place without a warrant, but in the video, she clearly states that she "presented" a revolver in her hand...
If I was the leo, I would immediately be worried about getting shot by this woman who may rightfully feel like her rights were being violated. I simply cannot feel sorry for her as she "presented" a firearm within arms reach of officers, which by all means would imply to the officers there that she intended to use the weapon.
By the way "presented" means pulled it out or lifted the gun guys. Its just another way to say it.
ok here comes the flak:

PatriotnMore
07-13-2009, 2:05 PM
No flak, just an honest answer. No, I would not have acted, nor do I think the LE were justified in their response. Everyone will take away what they want from that video, but for me, the fact is she was explaining why she did not need to evacuate, and was showing them she had food, water, and was armed to protect herself. She never acted out in a threatening manor, and she was in her own home.

GoingPro
07-13-2009, 2:46 PM
No flak, just an honest answer. No, I would not have acted, nor do I think the LE were justified in their response. Everyone will take away what they want from that video, but for me, the fact is she was explaining why she did not need to evacuate, and was showing them she had food, water, and was armed to protect herself. She never acted out in a threatening manor, and she was in her own home.

+1....:cool2:

Bug Splat
07-13-2009, 3:24 PM
I would tell them to leave my property. If they forced their way in I would have no alternative but to end the situation by removing the threat posed on my family.

510shooter510
07-13-2009, 5:20 PM
I will agree with you, depending on how the gun was involved/presented. It is difficult not to present a gun in a threatening manner in my mind though

hawk81
07-13-2009, 5:25 PM
I disagree. You have no idea what you are talking about.

I will catch flak for this...
Does anyone here really think that they would have reacted differently as the police officer in that old womans home?
I agree that they should not have entered the house in the first place without a warrant, but in the video, she clearly states that she "presented" a revolver in her hand...
If I was the leo, I would immediately be worried about getting shot by this woman who may rightfully feel like her rights were being violated. I simply cannot feel sorry for her as she "presented" a firearm within arms reach of officers, which by all means would imply to the officers there that she intended to use the weapon.
By the way "presented" means pulled it out or lifted the gun guys. Its just another way to say it.
ok here comes the flak:

Justintoxicated
07-13-2009, 5:43 PM
The problem is that this should have turned into a much bigger issue than it did. This is a HUGE violation. This is messing with your right to LIVE. I don't think most people understand what the issue is.

Sure they might be taking away something that has more sentimental or historic value and meaning than being just a gun.

Sure they might be STEALING well over $10,000 with no receipt or plans to ever give anything back.

But most impotently they are taking away your rights as a citizen to defend yourself when you need to the most!

Honestly, if the government wanted they could easily fund a project to take away all of our stuff. They have WAY superior firepower and more trained professionsals than any militia in our country will ever have. Don't want to hand over that AR 15 with 10 round mag and Bullet button?! Then they could blow your house down with an M1A (tank) and claim you were a terrorist, spy etc and can cover it up. This is the power our government has, regardless if it is good or bad.

Do you really think there could ever be another revolution in our country if need be? Could citizens really overthrow the government? I'm pretty sure it's already too late for that...Our country is run by less than 4% of the population, they have all the power.

So in the end you should do whatever is necessary to protect yourself and your family. If that means handing over 20k worth of gun's its still better to see tomorrow. If that means taking out people whom are threatening your life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, then so be it, every situation is unique and there are no guarantees. Also don't forget that the people sent into do this are also worried and scared for their lives and have their own families to worry about they may be more than willing to bust out their M16's.

With the economy right now things are getting crazy. I saw a cop today pull out an AR15 out of the trunk with a smile on his face as I drove by on the street. He wasn't arresting anyone, but my friend and I were like WTF! Just pulling it out for no reason... S- is about to hit the fan in LA, I can feel it brewing.....I can only imagine what would happen if we are hit by a major disaster like the big EQ right now... Probably won't happen but oh man if it did it would be HUGE.

Remember you may be innocent until proven guilty, but that does not mean they have to treat you that way!

woodsman
07-14-2009, 2:25 PM
So why were there no prosecutions of those that gave these confiscation orders and those that followed them?

thefurball
07-14-2009, 2:45 PM
If the S does HTF, you quietly bundle together the family, the guns, the ammo and supplies and as discreetly as possible get out of the area. Let the folks that didn't bother to plan ahead thump it out with 'the Government' and the creepy-crawlies.

House burned to the ground when you get back? Oh well. Remember, you could have been in it when it burned.

eighteenninetytwo
07-14-2009, 2:52 PM
All very well to say that - the problem we have in San francisco is that the only ways out of the city are bridges or the peninsula - very easy to control. When you add EVEYRONE else trying to get out at the same time the best method by a long way for me is to sit tight with the stuff you prepared. I think the goverment / LEO will think that most of SF is already gun free as it's a liberal rathole, so they'll be happy just to have the population at the mercy of the criminal element anyway. I'm not too certain that the cops do NOT have records of who has guns anyway - so I have a couple stashed where a cursory search would not find them, just in case.