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eighteenninetytwo
07-04-2009, 5:08 PM
Firstly NC star scopes. Craptastic. took one I had on an old .22 and tried it on the AR. waste of time. if you're thinking about it don't even bother folks.

Anyhow secondly after i'd taken off the scope and started usign Iron sights, I tried a few different types of ammo. This is full length 1:7 twist barrel AR.223. Federal XM193 55 grain - 4 inch group at 100 yards. PMC 69 grain match - 3 inch group at 100 yards. A.N.other 75 grain reloaded stuff I got off a guy at the range 3 inch group. Then super surprise - American Eagle 62 grain. Roughly 1.5 inch group at 100 yards (these were 5 shot groups - sadly I had one box only). Is there any logic to this or is it just that this rifle is going to eat 62 grain better than other weights?? So next question-anyone know what shape this stuff is- doens'tsay on the box, and any recommendations for decent 62 grain ammo?

DarkHorse
07-04-2009, 5:53 PM
1) Perhaps you mean "Two things from range today"

2) Thanks for the heads up on NCStar. I'm sure some folks already agree, and some will say you just got a bad aple, but thanks anyway.

3) Pretty much every rifle will have it's own preference for ammo weight/loading. The only logical part is that it shot 62 gr. better than 55 gr., as I believe the 1:7 twist was designed to stabilize the 62 gr. FMJBT projectiles. I have no idea why the PMC 69 gr. Match ammo didn't shoot well, without insulting your shooting skills (which I'm sure someone else will be along in short order to do, so be ready); I've heard good things about that ammo. As far as the 75 gr. stuff you got from the "guy at the range," I would never buy that again unless you personally know the guy. I only shoot my own, or my friends', reloads. You don't know what that yahoo is doing to those bullets, and his screw-up could cost you your rifle, or worse.

I would try to buy more of the 62 gr. American Eagle, since you seem to have had good results with it. Most likely, it's 62 gr. FMJBT, which = full-metal jacketed boat-tail. Full-metal jacket means the entire outside of the projectile is copper-jacketed (possibly not the base exposed to the powder, though), and boat-tail means that the rear-end of the projectile is tapered. This taper contributes to better ballistic properties.

eighteenninetytwo
07-04-2009, 6:31 PM
Thanks for the info.I agree with the safety aspect thing -should really have qualified the "got it from a guy at the range" phrase - it should read there was a guy next to me getting tremendous sub 2 inch groups with his AR with iron sights, we've spoken several times previously and today through the afternoon and when I was trying different loads he suggested I try a couple of the reloads he was using in his AR carbine (very successfully). I am pretty careful and would echo your concerns about random homemade ammo.

SCMA-1
07-04-2009, 7:13 PM
All firearms are particular to individual loads to a certain degree; some more than others. If you do not handload, the only thing you can do is try a wide cross section of factory loaded ammo to see which one your particular rifle likes the best. Also, just because your rifle preferred one particular brand/version of 62 gr cartridges doesn't mean it will like ALL 62 gr loads.

You mentioned you didn't like the NCStar scope you used but didn't give any details as to why. Could you tell us what model scope you were using and exactly why you didn't like it? I've used many NCStar brand scopes as well as lots of other shooters including (yes, you heard correctly) many servicemen. Aside from the occasional defective unit (which is not limited to any particular manufacturer), they function as designe, adjust to POI and hold zero just fine, IME.

SCMA-1

CSACANNONEER
07-04-2009, 7:55 PM
Damn, I was hoping for pictures of guns you had to tow to the range.

slappomatt
07-04-2009, 9:27 PM
Yeah ncstar is the crappiest of the crappy chicom garbage. I have had the displeasure of owning some of their stuff. Most of it falls apart in your hands. Maybe someday their QC will improve to the point where their stuff will be good enough for airsoft.....

DNA
07-05-2009, 1:22 AM
Yeah ncstar is the crappiest of the crappy chicom garbage. I have had the displeasure of owning some of their stuff. Most of it falls apart in your hands. Maybe someday their QC will improve to the point where their stuff will be good enough for airsoft.....

Please quantify why it is crap?

Dan

CSACANNONEER
07-05-2009, 5:59 AM
Please quantify why it is crap?

Dan

Like he said, most of it will fall apart in your hands. I would not advise anyone to waiste time with NC Star crap, even if it is free.

caldude
07-05-2009, 7:13 AM
I've used NCStar scopes on several rifles, primarily pistol scopes in scout setups on WWII battle rifles. I've never had any failures or other issues. Yeah, the optics aren't great, but they are decent for the price point.

The brand I've had the most issues with is FM (or Famous Maker). Crappy optics, and I had two scopes break after about 20 rounds of .223.

eighteenninetytwo
07-05-2009, 7:20 AM
Ok so the NC star saga.
Realistically the scopemay or may not be awesome I don't know. All i got to notice was that the reticle is very thick, probably over 1 an inch at 100 yards. this is a 1.5-4x magnification short 'tactical style' scope with integral mount. SoI never quite managed to get it to sit securely on the rifle as it has a quick release which didn't hold it very well for starters. That aside, when I did get it affixed the POI was at least 15 inches high at 100yards with the scope as low as it could go and no further adjustment possible via the scope ormount.So I tried to shim the mountwith some paper from an ammo box and discovered that the set screws holding the bottom of mount to the top are VERY short and fiddly. When I got the done it was shooting low and even at max elevation wouldn't get on paper at 100. Had I had a decent shimit may well have worked but the real annoyance is that the screw adjustment of the Quick release rail is actually under the mount and scope. Iwhen it's tight enough to sit still on the rail it won't go onto the rail and otherwise it's loose. The quality of the optics and it's ability to hold zero here is not being questioned here, but this is purely because of the rotten engineering which didn't allow me to use it for more than 4 shots.

Twinspool
07-05-2009, 7:52 AM
I've put Black hills 50gr Vmax, XM193, SS109 and 77GR Black hills through my 1:8 target AR and they all shot well with Black Hills being the best in both 50 and 77 gr variations. The 50gr was the tightest at 100yd, I'd expect that to change at 300 yards though.

Next up will be the 1:7 carbine and iron sights.

Measure your ammo for OAL. AR chambers can vary a bit and your gun might like to be headspaced a little different.

SCMA-1
07-05-2009, 8:31 AM
Ok so the NC star saga.
Realistically the scopemay or may not be awesome I don't know. All i got to notice was that the reticle is very thick, probably over 1 an inch at 100 yards. this is a 1.5-4x magnification short 'tactical style' scope with integral mount. SoI never quite managed to get it to sit securely on the rifle as it has a quick release which didn't hold it very well for starters. That aside, when I did get it affixed the POI was at least 15 inches high at 100yards with the scope as low as it could go and no further adjustment possible via the scope ormount.So I tried to shim the mountwith some paper from an ammo box and discovered that the set screws holding the bottom of mount to the top are VERY short and fiddly. When I got the done it was shooting low and even at max elevation wouldn't get on paper at 100. Had I had a decent shimit may well have worked but the real annoyance is that the screw adjustment of the Quick release rail is actually under the mount and scope. Iwhen it's tight enough to sit still on the rail it won't go onto the rail and otherwise it's loose. The quality of the optics and it's ability to hold zero here is not being questioned here, but this is purely because of the rotten engineering which didn't allow me to use it for more than 4 shots.

That's not good; sounds like the mount is defective. Thanks for your report!

SCMA-1

eighteenninetytwo
07-05-2009, 9:21 AM
I think it s a bad design rather than being necessarily defective. When looking at teh quick releaseleverson mounts there has to be a fairly significant difference between the thicknessof one side of the lever and the other, that's how they fasten, but this has not that much difference.

AHRIMAN
07-05-2009, 9:26 AM
I can vouch for the ncstar red dot as being a hunk of crap. It's flimsy, and wont hold zero with the stupid springs and whatnot they use to provide elevation. The battery life is crap as well.

B Strong
07-05-2009, 9:36 AM
Please quantify why it is crap?

Dan

NCstar and BSA will often experience reticle damage, then failure, when used on any rifle producing recoil greater than a .22LR.

A friend (against my advice) put a BSA scope on an M1A that lasted exactly one round - the reticle disapeered after the first round fired.

I've seen a guy at Jackson Arms w/ an NC on a M4 clone have a internal failure in the first magazine - it was a red-dot type scope, and the thing went TU before the first ten rounds were down range.

I've heard of guys trying to sight in an NC only to find that the external adjustments had no effect on POI.

You get what you pay for, but in the case of NC & BSA you don't even get that.

SCMA-1
07-05-2009, 9:52 AM
I've heard of guys trying to sight in an NC only to find that the external adjustments had no effect on POI.



That's the issue I had with a BSA scope. I sent it back to BSA and they sent me a different but similar scope because the model I had was being discontinued. I tried the replacement and had the same problem. Sent the replacement back and received a second replacement. I didn't even try this one; put it up on Ebay and sold it. I won't buy any more BSA scopes although I have a couple that work fine and have held up just fine also. I have a 3x-9x on my 308 Saiga which has pretty good recoil. That one zeroed and holds just fine. Several hundred rounds through it and so far so good; the Saiga shoots into 1.5 MOA with old milsurp.

I also have several Colt 3x,4x combat scope clones made by NCStar; those have been excellent over the years.

I think the biggest issue with some Chinese manufacturers is poor QC and sometimes the use of substandard materials. It's pretty much hit and miss.

SCMA-1

Toten Kopf
07-05-2009, 1:12 PM
I have an inexpensive ($125.00) NC Star Mk III (3x9) and haven't had any problems with it at all.

I will say that all the mount screws were loose and the friction lever needed adjustment but after taking care of those items the scope has worked very well. The ocular adjustment is nice to have as well.

The BDC isn't perfect but will allow hits on a target (mansize) out to 400 yards. The crosshairs are thick but doesn't interfere with the use/function of the scope.

Overall, I think it's a pretty good deal.

http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/500/MVC-672Xb.JPG

elsolo
07-05-2009, 2:08 PM
Damn, I was hoping for pictures of guns you had to tow to the range.


So was I. :(

nicoroshi
07-05-2009, 2:21 PM
Agreed on the NCStar assessment. Bought one for my AR in 5.56. When sighting in I noticed it not holding zero only to find out that the screws on the mount from the factory were loose, and the scope was moving on the mount.
The illuminated 3-7 stopped being illuminated after about 20 rounds.
I also noticed about 2MOA thickness of the cross hairs. :no: craptastic.
Put it on my .22 LR but will probably end up using it as a target when I get a better scope for my .22 LR.
Guess I'm spoiled with EOTech, and Leupold on my other rifles but I agree that you get what you pay for.