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Auto-5
06-30-2009, 8:33 PM
I've bought quite a few guns from auction sites and used various FFLs as they come and go out of business.

The FFL that I am working with now is willing to accept the firearm from the individual I bought it from as long as he sends along a copy of his drivers license. All that is normal and appropriate, but the FFL is unwilling to provide a copy of his license to the individual. They say it is company policy directed toward minimizing the chances of fraudulent use of their license.

Is this standard operating procedure? I realize the seller doesn't need a copy of the license to legally ship to the FFL, I not sure that I can convince him of that. I did transmit to him the first 3 and last 5 of the license so he can confirm the legitimacy of the FFL using the ATF FFL ez check website.

I know some FFLs won't accept from an individual thats their choice, but I never ran into this situation before.

halifax
06-30-2009, 10:03 PM
That is the FFL's choice. The sender can get the FFL number and look it up on the ATF website, verify the address, and ship the firearms to the address listed and nowhere else. Not a big deal, IMO

kemasa
07-01-2009, 9:00 AM
If you look at the BATF web site, there is a question about that and the FFL only needs to give a copy of their FFL to other FFLs. They are not required to give it to non-FFLs. I can't find the specific reference right now though, but I recently saw where it was discussed.

Some FFLs are concerned about giving out a copy of the FFL to non-FFLs, but to be quite honest the risk is higher when you give it to other FFLs as they would know how to make use of it better. To me, it is more important to track who you send your FFL to so that you can show how actually has a valid copy of your FFL.

garandguy10
07-01-2009, 5:14 PM
The FFL dealer does not have to supply a copy of his FFL for a out of state[or in state] transfer of a firearm from a non FFL licensed individual. The BATFE warns that it is not a good policy for FFL dealers to supply their FFL to non licensees. However what I would suggest is that the FFL dealer send a copy of his FFL EZCHECK verification from the BATFE websight, that will have the FFL'S premises address [shipping address] and a partial FFL license number on it and will serve as proof that the non licensee did not violate federal laws regarding interstate shipment of firearms as long as the non licensee shipped the firearm only to the premesis address on the EZCHECK verification form.

GM4spd
07-02-2009, 6:39 AM
The FFL dealer does not have to supply a copy of his FFL for a out of state[or in state] transfer of a firearm from a non FFL licensed individual. The BATFE warns that it is not a good policy for FFL dealers to supply their FFL to non licensees. However what I would suggest is that the FFL dealer send a copy of his FFL EZCHECK verification from the BATFE websight, that will have the FFL'S premises address [shipping address] and a partial FFL license number on it and will serve as proof that the non licensee did not violate federal laws regarding interstate shipment of firearms as long as the non licensee shipped the firearm only to the premesis address on the EZCHECK verification form.


That seems like a good idea--because when a private individual goes to
UPS or Fedex,don't they have to declare the contents as a firearm and need to
show it going to a LICENSED dealer? Pete

zinfull
07-02-2009, 8:36 AM
This sounds just wrong. How will the normal people know it is a legit person with a FFL01 license and not a nut job wanting a gun with out a trace? The next step will be that guns can only be shipped between FFL's because a private party can not verify the person on the receiving end. What would anyone do with a copy of your license that is verified by ezcheck other than verify who you are. They can not start a store or transfer on it as it would be found out the first use. If you do not want to use all the numbers just mark out the one not needed to run ezcheck. If a FFL01 refuse to send their copy I would not ship.

jerry

kemasa
07-02-2009, 8:37 AM
Yes, whenever a firearm is shipped, the shipper must be informed and an adult signature is required. See below for additional information.

I have yet to be asked for proof that the receiver is a FFL, but that does not mean that they will not demand proof.

Everyone should check on the EZCheck web page before shipping a firearm.


http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/firearms.html
http://www.fedex.com/us/services/ground/termsandconditions/firearmsus.html
http://www.fedex.com/us/services/terms/us.html

kemasa
07-02-2009, 9:31 AM
This sounds just wrong. How will the normal people know it is a legit person with a FFL01 license and not a nut job wanting a gun with out a trace? The next step will be that guns can only be shipped between FFL's because a private party can not verify the person on the receiving end. What would anyone do with a copy of your license that is verified by ezcheck other than verify who you are. They can not start a store or transfer on it as it would be found out the first use. If you do not want to use all the numbers just mark out the one not needed to run ezcheck. If a FFL01 refuse to send their copy I would not ship.


The ezcheck allows everyone, not just FFLs, to confirm the status of the FFL and to confirm the address. A copy of the actual FFL really does not buy you anything and does not prove anything, unless it is checked. That is really enough, except for FFLs who are required to have a copy of the actual FFL due to the law.

Auto-5
07-02-2009, 10:02 PM
I would guess most folks don't know about the ATF EZ check website. If a buyer wanted to commit fraud and photoshopped a copy of an FFL license, they might convince an unwary seller to ship them the gun directly.
That's the fear and the reason the EZ check exists. In the future I'll never ship a gun without using easy check.
My seller was understanding and will use the partial license number from my FFL to print out the conformation from the EZ check site. That and his copy of the shipping form are all the proof of proper disposition required of a non FFL.

cousinkix1953
07-02-2009, 11:51 PM
This sounds just wrong. How will the normal people know it is a legit person with a FFL01 license and not a nut job wanting a gun with out a trace? The next step will be that guns can only be shipped between FFL's because a private party can not verify the person on the receiving end. What would anyone do with a copy of your license that is verified by ezcheck other than verify who you are. They can not start a store or transfer on it as it would be found out the first use. If you do not want to use all the numbers just mark out the one not needed to run ezcheck. If a FFL01 refuse to send their copy I would not ship.

jerry
A call to the local police or sherriff might tell you if John Doe and his gun store are real. If not, they might be interested in knowing who the dealer (?) is too...

kemasa
07-03-2009, 12:06 PM
The local police or sheriff really would not be able to tell you if the FFL is real or not. I doubt that they have looked at all of the paperwork. They might have an idea, but that is all.

In CA, there are many paperwork requirements and even if you have a FFL, it does not mean that you can buy or sell a firearm. You need to check to make sure that the FFL is on the centralized list, which only other FFLs can do when they go to the CA DOJ website to print the required (FFL only) letter.