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Sharnhorst
06-12-2005, 2:30 PM
I have recently picked up a m96 from another board member, at a price that i couldent let pass me by. I have always had some intrest in in the m96 but at a 1400+ price tag i never could bring myself to step up and get one. I had held one at the gun store but never shot one before i bought mine. Last weekend i got to take it out for some trigger time. I cant say why but it feels more compact than an AR but yet beefer that the AR, yet the AR over all was smaller. shooting it side by side with an AR, the two were very close in recoil. I was very impressed with the zero muzzle climb from the m96, no flip just straight back.
I dident test the accurcy only mag dumps and function. Over all im very pleased.

I wanted to give it a full cleaning so a full breakdown was in order. This is where i get really impressed, with no more that a 223 cartridge i had the rifle broke down completly for a good cleaning. This has got to be one of the simpilest rifles to breakdown that there is. its too bad that they are priced so high, i think they would sell the piss out this rifle if they were cheaper. This ones a keeper and now will have a forever home in my safe.

6172crew
06-12-2005, 2:46 PM
All that and no pics?

http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Sharnhorst
06-12-2005, 6:12 PM
I own a FAL, AR and many other rifles. iv taken all of these down, and none of these have impressed me like the M96, im not saying one is better that the other, just that the m96 is very unique in many ways.You can hot swap a barrle in under 20 seconds, change out the mag well in under 20, and with the push of one pin remove the stock. If i had not found this one for such a good price i most likey never would had got one. But with that said if i would have known more about the m96 i would have bought one sooner. this is a very neet rifle.

06-12-2005, 6:29 PM
You can hot swap a barrle in under 20 seconds

Try that with an AR*.



http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif http://www.calguns.net/laughroll.gif
*(requisite smilies added for clarity... this is sarcasm).

06-12-2005, 6:34 PM
Things I don't like about the M96 in Californian compliance mode (sans pistol grip):

It can be difficult to work the safety.
It feels slightly awkward/clumsy when charging the rifle.
It feels extremely muzzle-heavy.

Sharnhorst
06-12-2005, 6:44 PM
All your points are true, its to bad, the pistol grip would make a world of differance.

06-12-2005, 8:14 PM
That's not to say that the good points don't outweigh the bad though. I love the M96. In terms of a quality .223 chambered, SB23 compliant, semi-auto rifle, it's the best thing going in California -and that's not just my opinion... it's backed by scientific research and facts from real scientists wearing lab coats.
http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

06-13-2005, 12:24 AM
Originally posted by Technical Ted:

Two acronyms: LMT MRP.

Two words: Torx Bit.

The Lewis Machine & Tool (LMT) Monolithic Rail Platform (MRP) receiver differs from all previous ones for the AR15/M16 family in that it is monolithic - the rail platform and receiver are machine out of one piece of aluminum, instead of being separate (receiver and rail system). Why go this route? <span class="ev_code_red">Some of the advantages to this system are that barrels can be switched in a minute with only a torx tip screwdriver/ratchet</span>, the barrel is free floating, the top rail is continuous/uninterrupted, and the whole package can be made more compact.

http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

s281c
06-13-2005, 8:15 AM
Originally posted by Technical Ted:
BTW Yes I have been accused of having a bias for the AR15 and yes I admit it.

Heh nothing wrong with being biased toward AR's........push come to shove, if I had to choose between one of my AR's and a m96, I'd grab one of the AR's. Although if I knew it's going to be a major SHTF event, out comes a Galil or a 91............. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

50 Shooter
06-13-2005, 8:33 AM
Is it a newer M96?

The old ones had issues and had to be sent back to the factory to be fixed. A friend found out the hard way and so did Robinson ( $$$$ ).

06-13-2005, 2:29 PM
Originally posted by Technical Ted:

Smartass http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Oh, you ain't seen nothing yet.

Since it's unlikely that I'll be using my lowly semi-automatic AR15s to lay down continous area suppression fire on full auto from a Beta C-Mag or belt (A job where quick change barrels really come in handy, a la M60 or M249 Squad Automatic Weapons), I'll have to be happy taking 15 minutes at a bench to change out a barrel using tools.

Well, then you're doing it all wrong, I suppose.
If the SHTF, I plan on laying down suppressive fire (up until an F/A 18 dispatched out of Miramar strafes my position) with something a little easier to clean than one of my semis... probably my old Savage shotgun or something. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Come to think of it AR15 uppers and components are relatively cheap and common compared to the Robinson M96 components. I can just swap out a pre-assembled upper group by pushing two pins. One assembly consisting of barrel, handguards, bolt carrier group, charging handle and sights.

That's great... until you lose the front pivot pin detent and spring. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

BTW Yes I have been accused of having a bias for the AR15 and yes I admit it.

I've been accused of much, much worse.

06-13-2005, 2:32 PM
Originally posted by S281c:
Although if I knew it's going to be a major SHTF event, out comes a Galil or a 91............. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

In my case, if it's a major SHTF (I didn't know they came in degrees http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ), I'll settle for cracking open a couple of brews from the fridge.

http://members.cox.net/basurablanca/beer.gif

Sharnhorst
06-13-2005, 4:56 PM
Is it a newer M96

Yes, this is the late model.

Some how this turned in to a AR vs. M96 thread.
http://www.calguns.net/banghead.gif http://www.calguns.net/banghead.gif http://www.calguns.net/banghead.gif http://www.calguns.net/banghead.gif

06-13-2005, 5:51 PM
Originally posted by Sharnhorst:
Some how this turned in to a AR vs. M96 thread.
http://www.calguns.net/banghead.gif http://www.calguns.net/banghead.gif http://www.calguns.net/banghead.gif http://www.calguns.net/banghead.gif

Not really, but you're right. Let's just talk about something more lighthearted, like: Ford vs. Chevy.

or perhaps debate abortion maybe!?!?

http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Sharnhorst
06-13-2005, 6:08 PM
People are so touchie about there AR's. http://www.calguns.net/bow.gif

esskay
06-14-2005, 12:26 PM
Here's another quick change barrel option for ARs. Looks like no tools required and takes standard AR barrels:

MGI QCB Quick-Change Barrel System (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=258692)

http://www.mgimilitary.com/images/CompleteRifle.jpg

C.G.
06-14-2005, 12:55 PM
Or the pricey Cobb system (http://www.cobb50.com/mcr.htm) where you can change the barrel and the magwell is modular as well.

esskay
06-14-2005, 3:25 PM
Originally posted by cg:
Or the pricey Cobb system (http://www.cobb50.com/mcr.htm) where you can change the barrel and the magwell is modular as well.

Which sadly, we PRK inmates can't buy... http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

The other quick change uppers can at least be installed on FAB10s or lowers for those fortunate enough to have registered pre-kaliban.

esskay
06-14-2005, 3:29 PM
Originally posted by Technical Ted:
Esskay, that's the system I was thinking of.

Again, a semi-auto in civilian hands isn't going to fire high volumes fast enough to require a barrel change at the range.



Sure, but I would also posit that there are other advantages to a quick change barrel system than just for high volume fire. Just a couple listed below:
- flexibility to install different types of barrels in the same upper (e.g. for the MRP, different types of barrels are available... short, long; chrome line, match stainless. For the MGI system, you can swap into any type of standard AR barrel in various calibers.)
- for 14.5" barrels with permanently attached muzzle devices, it makes maintenance easier... You can just pop the barrel out easily.

Sharnhorst
06-14-2005, 5:58 PM
Since it's unlikely that I'll be using my lowly semi-automatic AR15s to lay down continous area suppression fire on full auto from a Beta C-Mag or belt (A job where quick change barrels really come in handy, a la M60 or M249 Squad Automatic Weapons), I'll have to be happy taking 15 minutes at a bench to change out a barrel using tools.

Yes but it sure makes it nice for cleaning.

Come to think of it AR15 uppers and components are relatively cheap and common compared to the Robinson M96 components. I can just swap out a pre-assembled upper group by pushing two pins. One assembly consisting of barrel, handguards, bolt carrier group, charging handle and sights.


with the push of two pins the whole upper reciver can be changed out on the m96 as well, but why carry around a complete upper if you dont need to? The cost of a barrel is about half of what a good complete upper cost for an AR.

And after Holding, shooting and breaking down both rifles, id jump over 10 AR's to get to the M96. Side by side and part for part i think the M96 is of a better design.
Well at least we can agree one one thing.. the SU16 is a joke. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Sharnhorst
06-14-2005, 6:00 PM
Sure, but I would also posit that there are other advantages to a quick change barrel system than just for high volume fire. Just a couple listed below:
- flexibility to install different types of barrels in the same upper (e.g. for the MRP, different types of barrels are available... short, long; chrome line, match stainless. For the MGI system, you can swap into any type of standard AR barrel in various calibers.)
- for 14.5" barrels with permanently attached muzzle devices, it makes maintenance easier... You can just pop the barrel out easily.

Exactly.

Sharnhorst
06-14-2005, 6:47 PM
It's easier to carry around a couple of zeroed uppers than rezero every time I change a barrel.

thats not true when you speak of the m96, a push of 1 button and 2 pins and you have just change the barrel and rear sight. that still lighter and less to carry.

06-15-2005, 12:57 AM
The point here should be, that you can still actually buy an RA M96 here in CA.

That's really the bottom line for most people IMO.

http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif (requisite smiley for <span class="ev_code_red">flared</span> temper abatement) &lt;---that's a joke too.

esskay
06-15-2005, 2:36 AM
Originally posted by Technical Ted:
It's easier to carry around a couple of zeroed uppers than rezero every time I change a barrel.

And how does a permanently attached muzzle device make maintenance harder? I have a couple of 14.5" M4 barrels and the only complaint I have is that I can't change out the front sight base. A quick change barrel system still wouldn't make it easier.

As far as changing non-QD barrels, I have no problem with that...again, it's not a problem. In fact, I changed out a barrel last night in less than five minutes, 10 if you count detaching the upper from the lower and removing the handguards and gas tube manually then reinstalling them--granted, I had to use a barrel wrench, some punches and a vise block.

I still need to rezero it. Swapping between different barrel types is still going to require tweaking the sights to zero.

True enough on the zeroing issue. Personally, I too would go for multiple uppers with dedicated, zeroed optics for each.

Given the choice, I'd sure prefer a QD system (tool-less or torx screws) to barrel wrench, punches, and a vise block...

I'm not a QD barrel fanatic here, I just think it's a nice feature to have and was throwing out some pros. Also, think of it this way... I love 1911s, and I get better each time at breaking down and reassembling them, but don't you just wish they were as easy as a Sig?

C123K_LoadMaster
06-17-2005, 7:57 PM
The M96 is a reliable rifle with light recoil and decent accuracy. I find the design fascinating and love the quick detachable barrel feature. I currently own 4 different barrel types. My only complaint is the pistol grip is to small and the buttstock to short for me. I have the same problem on the AR-15, but accessories to move the grip back for a better trigger perch and extenders for the stock are available. I am thinking of thinning out my collection and may sell my M96's unless I can find a way to move the pistol grip back 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch.

http://www.fototime.com/5888940CAB0352A/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/CCB2DF76256ADAE/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/AC8D2CA36C123B5/standard.jpg

LAW483
06-17-2005, 8:13 PM
Originally posted by SafetyAgentMan:
My only complaint is the pistol grip is to small and the buttstock to short for me. I have the same problem on the AR-15, but accessories to move the grip back for a better trigger perch and extenders for the stock are available. I am thinking of thinning out my collection and may sell my M96's unless I can find a way to move the pistol grip back 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch.

SafetyAgentMan,

http://www.robarm.com/images/M96_Parts_5_copy.jpg

Turn the weapon upside down and take a pic with the grip where you want it and the attaching hardware screwed into the receiver so I can see what would be involved in moving or altering the grip.



Take Care,

Tony

Stevil
06-18-2005, 1:26 AM
Erm, pistol grip????? http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Sharnhorst
06-18-2005, 7:37 AM
I am thinking of thinning out my collection and may sell my M96's

I want first dibbs on anything you might sale!

Please keep this email addy:kingpingp400@yahoo.com

C123K_LoadMaster
06-18-2005, 12:34 PM
Tony,

Thank you for the kind offer of help. I would imagine there are a few of us out there who are frustrated with the small pistol grip.

Here is a picture of the pistol grip in the factory position.

http://www.fototime.com/C084D26338D660D/standard.jpg

I would like to move the pistol grip back about 3/4 inch to this position.

http://www.fototime.com/9596AC002F2ECB4/standard.jpg

Here is a picture with the pistol grip removed showing the mounting stud.

http://www.fototime.com/6D50A661D89CB3A/standard.jpg

I have a few ideas on how to accomplish moving the pistol grip, but I don't have the time or expertise to do it. Another alternative would be to have a custom grip made that extends the back of the grip by 3/4 inch. I talked with a stock manufacturer in San Jose this morning who bought his M96 when I did in 1999. He said he has the same problem as I do and may have time to manufacturer an extended wood pistol grip later this year.

Here is one of my AR-15's with the pistol grip moved back with an aftermarket accessory.

http://www.fototime.com/0947B6662490287/standard.jpg

I checked around and it appears the Speedlock AR-15 Slip Grip Extender I have used in the past is no longer available. I see Brownells now offers a plastic version manufactured by Injection Plastics, the AR-15/M16 RITE-PULL GRIP ADAPTER.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.as...DAPTER&s=18416#18416 (http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=7378&amp;title=AR-15%2fM16+RITE-PULL+GRIP+ADAPTER&amp;s=18416#18416)

C123K_LoadMaster
06-18-2005, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by Stevil:
Erm, pistol grip????? http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

All M96's registered with the CA DOJ in 1999 are allowed to retain their pistol grip. I had a difficult time buying a green stock set from Robinson a few years back because I lived in CA. Alex finally OKed it after I sent them a copy of my AW registration.

C123K_LoadMaster
06-18-2005, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by Sharnhorst:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I am thinking of thinning out my collection and may sell my M96's

I want first dibbs on anything you might sale!

Please keep this email addy:kingpingp400@yahoo.com </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It might be a while before I make my decision, but I will try to remember to let you know before I post here.

esskay
07-02-2005, 11:53 PM
Sorry for the continued thread jack, but here's another good reason for a quick change barrel!

From usma89 on this arfcom thread (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=258692)

A laptop bag:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v375/usma89/ar15parts027.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v375/usma89/ar15parts026.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v375/usma89/ar15parts025.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v375/usma89/ar15parts028.jpg

Ignore the can since you couldn't possibly get one here in Kali. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif