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09-27-2005, 2:43 PM
I'm new to the forum although i've been lurking for awhile.

I've read a few articles about Prop 77 and just wondered what other peoples opinions might be on it. Could this be a chance for us to get some more pro-gun politicions in Sacto? If you look at an election map of Cal you'll see a big chunk of the state is red. What do you all think?

Charliegone
09-27-2005, 3:06 PM
What it will do is make politicians think twice before signing stupid legislation. The result would be that their would be less anti-gun bills being passed and more "moderate" bills being presented. It would also make elections fair, since they won't be "safe" districts anymore. My hope is that someone will pass a bill to repeal some of the AW laws and handgun restrictions. I know it would be almost to impossible to get most our rights back... but oh well thats just what I think.

09-27-2005, 5:17 PM
Originally posted by Charliegone:
What it will do is make politicians think twice before signing stupid legislation. The result would be that their would be less anti-gun bills being passed and more "moderate" bills being presented. It would also make elections fair, since they won't be "safe" districts anymore. My hope is that someone will pass a bill to repeal some of the AW laws and handgun restrictions. I know it would be almost to impossible to get most our rights back... but oh well thats just what I think.

That's what i'm hoping for.

SunshineGlocker
09-28-2005, 9:42 AM
Originally posted by magsnubby:
I'm new to the forum although i've been lurking for awhile.

Welcome!

I've read a few articles about Prop 77 and just wondered what other peoples opinions might be on it. Could this be a chance for us to get some more pro-gun politicions in Sacto? If you look at an election map of Cal you'll see a big chunk of the state is red. What do you all think?
<span class="ev_code_RED">VOTE FOR IT! Here's why:</span>

California has (IIRC) 153 elected positions that rely on districts. This includes CA-state senate, assembly, and a few other minor elected positions.

In the most recent election (2002) not a single one of those 153 seats change from one party to the other. What that means is that the districts are drawn up in such a way that they are 100% safe. Our representatives in Sacramento know that no matter what they do, they can't be thrown out of office. Also, the districts are drawn in such a way as to give the assembly a more liberal composition than the state itself has.

How did it get this way? During the last redistricting process, both parties made a gentlemens agreement to draw districts in such a way that the balance of power wouldn't shift. Well, I want a state that is run by officials who are elected in competitive elections, people who have real concerns about getting thrown out if they do the wrong thing. We don't have that.

In a one party system, nothing changes because you know that Party ___ is going to win. We have basically the same thing here: the crew that's in power isn't going to change.

How did it get this way? One word answer: computers. The last time redistricting was done, they had software available that could generate the districts they needed. Here's a beautiful example:

Take a look at the Capper here, and then decide if our current redistricting process works:
http://www.fairdistricts.com/the-capper.gif

Honestly, Prop 77 is our best shot on the horizon for ever getting statewide CCW here.

Statewide CCW is vitally important for several reasons. First, it's the right thing and will make us safer. Second, if a lot of people are CARRYING guns, then it makes further gun control laws seem rather pointless. I mean, why argue over things like magazine safeties if a bunch of people are already walking around CARRYING GUNS! It's the ultimate victory for us, and a crushing game-over type defeat for the other side.

And CCW could happen if we get better districts.

A few more details on Prop 77: It puts limits on the shape of districts. I don't have all the details but it says that districts basically have to stay shaped like districts, cannot span three counties, that kind of thing, so "The Capper" above couldn't be drawn at all under Prop 77, no matter what the judges do. It also specifically prohibits them from using party affiliation as a factor in drawing districts, so it will result in most districts becoming "unsafe" (in a good way). Right now our districts are 100% (yes, not 99.9% but 100%) safe, and this is one case where "safe" for them means "dangerous" for us.

http://www.fairdistricts.com/images/REDISTRICTING-CARTOON.jpg

Silverback
09-28-2005, 10:33 AM
http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gifI'll vote for it just to break up a political machine that has done nothing but increase taxes, run buisiness out of the state, cater to illegals, and basically bastardize rights. Not that I trust a judge, but it's a start to get rid of what we have. http://www.calguns.net/banghead.gif

09-28-2005, 10:35 AM
Now that's what i'm talking about.

joel1316
09-29-2005, 11:53 AM
I'll give this thread a bump for others that didn't know of Prop 77, like me...

09-29-2005, 6:14 PM
Originally posted by Joel1316:
I'll give this thread a bump for others that didn't know of Prop 77, like me...

There's lots of folks out there who don't know about Prop77. That's why i've posted about it on all forums i belong to.

10-06-2005, 5:31 PM
According to the latest poles Prop 77 is leading 56% to 36%.

just4fun63
10-06-2005, 5:58 PM
We need this one!

Anonymous Coward
10-06-2005, 6:26 PM
Originally posted by magsnubby:
According to the latest poles Prop 77 is leading 56% to 36%.

Looks like not all polls have prop 77 passing:

- Proposition 77 (redistricting), 33% yes, 50% no

http://www.ppic.org/main/publication.asp?i=637


This proposition is going to change the policitcal landscape, if it passes . But I doubt that it changes gun control in CA. How many voters really want to relax gun laws? Anybody got numbers?

colossians323
10-06-2005, 7:17 PM
I heard that the world is going come to an end if any of these pass, and corporate interests and greed is what this special election is all about.

The unions say so, so it must be true.

Inoxmark
10-06-2005, 8:27 PM
This proposition is going to change the policitcal landscape, if it passes . But I doubt that it changes gun control in CA. How many voters really want to relax gun laws? Anybody got numbers?
Most recent gun control bills - this year's ammo bills, 50BMG bill - have been passing state senate and/or assembly by a single vote. Even if redistricting results in adding only one or two votes to our side that may just change the balance in our favor.

Librarian
10-06-2005, 10:46 PM
Just noticed this from Dan Weintraub (http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/insider/): Three prominent reform groups -- Common Cause, CalPIRG and TheRestOfUs.org -- have endorsed Prop. 77, the redistricting reform measure.

bg
10-07-2005, 12:46 AM
This proposition is going to change the policitcal landscape, if it passes . But I doubt that it changes gun control in CA. How many voters really want to relax gun laws? Anybody got numbers?
Well I know of one guy who wants relaxed gun laws.
Does that count ?

10-07-2005, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by AnonymousCoward:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by magsnubby:
According to the latest poles Prop 77 is leading 56% to 36%.

Looks like not all polls have prop 77 passing:

- Proposition 77 (redistricting), 33% yes, 50% no

http://www.ppic.org/main/publication.asp?i=637


This proposition is going to change the policitcal landscape, if it passes . But I doubt that it changes gun control in CA. How many voters really want to relax gun laws? Anybody got numbers? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe it depends on who's conducting the poll.

I know lots of voters who want the gun laws changed.

Anonymous Coward
10-07-2005, 1:04 PM
Originally posted by Inoxmark:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This proposition is going to change the policitcal landscape, if it passes . But I doubt that it changes gun control in CA. How many voters really want to relax gun laws? Anybody got numbers?
Most recent gun control bills - this year's ammo bills, 50BMG bill - have been passing state senate and/or assembly by a single vote. Even if redistricting results in adding only one or two votes to our side that may just change the balance in our favor. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, looking at gun bill votes is a good angle. I looked up the votes for AB50 and found this:
senate: 21 yes/ 14 no = 60% yes
assembly: 45 yes/ 32 no = 58% yes

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/03-04/bill/asm/ab_0001-00...226PM_asm_floor.html (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/03-04/bill/asm/ab_0001-0050/ab_50_vote_20040825_1226PM_asm_floor.html)
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/03-04/bill/asm/ab_0001-00...252PM_sen_floor.html (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/03-04/bill/asm/ab_0001-0050/ab_50_vote_20040823_0252PM_sen_floor.html)

So in both cases the redistricing needs to flip about 10 members from anti to pro (and not flip members back). I really don't know how likely that is...

Charliegone
10-07-2005, 4:47 PM
If we really want to overturn some of these dumb laws we really need to get to work. In other words, pass the word on that some of these laws do nothing to prevent crime, convince people to vote pro-gun, put up more internet sites like this so that more people are informed, the internet, I believe is the key. I don't know about emailing unknown people about gun control, that might get some people mad. Spam you know...

jnojr
10-09-2005, 10:29 AM
It really frightens me that there are people who "haven't heard of" Prop 77, or other major political issues.

It frightens me even more the number of people who are against Props 74,75,76, & 77... the only reason to vote against them is because you've listened to, and bought, ads paid for by liberal special interests. The unions are promulgating out-and-out lies about what these propositions do. In every case, people who are stridently against them (who have no personal interest in them, ie. not a union member, teacher, etc.) decide that they would vote for them after they find out what they're really about.

This is our biggest problem... total apathy amongst the voters. They accept whatever the loudest voice tells them.

I wish we could go back to where only landowners could vote. I really do. Masses of uneducated and ignorant voters, especially those with no real stake in things (like wanting to vote increases in property taxes) are why we're where we are now.