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View Full Version : Looking for OC handgun, advice needed


Hayashi Killian
06-26-2009, 7:07 PM
Hello all, I've been browsing around this forum and the Calguns one for a while now after learning about California's open carry laws and I figured I'd start by getting myself a good pistol that I can carry around during my business. I've been looking at various models online and here's what I'm looking for:

-Chambered in .45ACP (other types of .45 are fine, .45 ACP is preferred) - major plus if it can handle +P or +P+ ammo
-SA/DA, not DAO
-For ease of loading/legality, only support CA-legal magazines, or if that's too restrictive, have CA-legal magazines easily available for purchase

I initially had 3 different models lined up and was considering doing a PPT with relatives/friends out of state, but after doing some research I'm deciding that will be a backup plan should I not be able to find something to my standards. Using some of my own knowledge combined with a recommendation by a member at Opencarry.org and using the approved handguns roster, I've seen 3 models that look appealing, but I am open for suggestions by other members.

-CZ97B (only downside to early CZ models is they're steel, and going to be heavy, should be around a kilogram)
-Taurus PT145 (polymer, looks good, don't know about availability of parts/accessories, it's also DAO)
-H&K USP (either Expert or Standard, V1, main downside is that if it's H&K it's going to be pricier)

If anyone has anything positive or negative to say about any of those models, or any other models to recommend, please let me know. I don't want to drop over $500 on a POS right now. ;)

Lucky Scott
06-26-2009, 7:15 PM
California open carry laws?????

cmace22
06-26-2009, 7:17 PM
Good luck with that......

tuna quesadilla
06-26-2009, 7:21 PM
California open carry laws?????

Yep!

It is legal to openly carry a holstered pistol if the following criteria are met...

1. The pistol is unloaded
2. You are not within 1000' of a school, public or private, grades K-12 inclusive
3. Your spare magazines are also openly carried (does not apply to revolver speedloaders)

And there are a few more restrictions you need to think about. That's just a basic rundown, by no means an all-inclusive guide to open carrying. Do NOT open carry unless you are 110% confident that you know all of the laws and penal code sections that relate to it -- When you start to open carry regularly, it's a matter of WHEN, not IF you will be harassed and possibly falsely arrested by the police.

To the OP - I've got a lot of trigger time behind a USP .45 and I find it to be a fine weapon. I'd OC it without hesitation. Personally I OC a Glock 17 but the Glock meets none of your criteria.

cmace22
06-26-2009, 7:25 PM
Yep!

It is legal to openly carry a holstered pistol if the following criteria are met...

1. The pistol is unloaded
2. You are not within 1000' of a school, public or private, grades K-12 inclusive
3. Your spare magazines are also openly carried (does not apply to revolver speedloaders)

And there are a few more restrictions you need to think about. That's just a basic rundown, by no means an all-inclusive guide to open carrying. Do NOT open carry unless you are 110% confident that you know all of the laws and penal code sections that relate to it -- When you start to open carry regularly, it's a matter of WHEN, not IF you will be harassed and possibly falsely arrested by the police.

Like I said.... Good luck with that. Its a trip to jail waiting to happen or a bullet to the chest. I cant go 2 blocks with out being withing 1000 feet af a school.

tuna quesadilla
06-26-2009, 7:28 PM
Like I said.... Good luck with that. Its a trip to jail waiting to happen or a bullet to the chest. I cant go 2 blocks with out being withing 1000 feet af a school.

Bummer. ;)

Black Majik
06-26-2009, 7:29 PM
How about a W. German or German or Pre-Cohen P220?

Hayashi Killian
06-26-2009, 8:00 PM
I'm surprised that you're not aware of the Open Carry laws. I first heard about them after seeing the very same pullnshoot25 and elsensei made: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1szBxnAEsMw&feature=PlayList&p=9CDFD99BEFA7E9CB&index=0

That aside, I know the laws fairly well, and I'm still practicing them to ensure I can get them right when asked. After all, I won't be getting my handgun tomorrow, since I still need to find a new job and a steady source of income, and I can use this time for research and visit ranges.

As a general question, if a handgun is listed on the roster as being a certain color, can you get it replated after purchase without violating it being on the roster (as compared to likely just violating warranty)?

Unit74
06-26-2009, 10:15 PM
You can carry inside your business w/o a license.

But go ahead and walk down the street or into McDonalds w/ a gun on your hip. You are asking for attention in my book and you will get a loaded gun pointed at you at some point. Specially in North SD County.

Is carrying an unloaded gun really that important to you? And if you had loaded mags in a pocket and used them, do you think your exempt from later prosecution?

Either get a CCW(Yea, right in Vista), don't get one and open yourself up to liability or leave the issue alone.

Hayashi Killian
06-26-2009, 10:35 PM
When I created this topic, I was asking for a handgun of good quality to get, not to debate the open carry laws. Please keep it on topic. If you want to know my reasons, shoot me a PM.

Black Majik: Sorry, didn't answer your post in my last one. The P220 looks good, but if I get one of Sig's P-lines, I'll probably get a P226 since I've used one before. I'd like to get it in .357Sig but their expiration dates are coming up very soon, sooner than I'd like.

Bill92869
06-26-2009, 10:55 PM
After watching the video and seeing how you will be required to carry the gun to be legal for open carry, I would consider the Glock 21 my first choice. No safety levers to get in the way, short mild angle feed ramp for reliable feeding especially under stress, ample magazine opening assuring no-miss loading, consistent trigger pull (no transition from double to single action). Best choice IMHO, but certainly not the only choice. I want to wish you luck on your decision to "oc".

MallNinja
06-26-2009, 10:58 PM
Is carrying an unloaded gun really that important to you? And if you had loaded mags in a pocket and used them, do you think your exempt from later prosecution?


Just to clear things up, I'm under the impression that if you open carry here in CA, you must open carry your mags in a mag pouch. They cannot be inside your pocket. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, if you can't get a CCW, the next best thing would be open carry. Learn to load and chamber quickly and efficiently and you'll have an effective firearm. Like the saying goes, with a gun, you have options.

tuna quesadilla
06-26-2009, 11:22 PM
Just to clear things up, I'm under the impression that if you open carry here in CA, you must open carry your mags in a mag pouch. They cannot be inside your pocket. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, if you can't get a CCW, the next best thing would be open carry. Learn to load and chamber quickly and efficiently and you'll have an effective firearm. Like the saying goes, with a gun, you have options.

You're absolutely correct on both counts. It's been ruled that concealing a magazine is the same as concealing a firearm; therefore, you must have your mags in a magazine carrier on your belt. And open carry IS the next best thing to CCW. People who say "what good is an unloaded gun going to do?" obviously suck at reloading... If you practice drawing+loading enough, you can get it down to a science and go from holstered/unloaded to drawn/loaded in no time flat.

Oldnoob
06-26-2009, 11:30 PM
If DA/SA is the must, either Sig 220 or HK USP were the first come out of my mind. Both are outstanding pistol in function and quality.
You know if 45 is your prefer round, there is whole selection of 1911s. Of cause, it's SA only.

mej16489
06-27-2009, 10:18 AM
-Chambered in .45ACP (other types of .45 are fine, .45 ACP is preferred) - major plus if it can handle +P or +P+ ammo
-SA/DA, not DAO
-For ease of loading/legality, only support CA-legal magazines, or if that's too restrictive, have CA-legal magazines easily available for purchase

I've seen 3 models that look appealing, but I am open for suggestions by other members.

-CZ97B (only downside to early CZ models is they're steel, and going to be heavy, should be around a kilogram)
-Taurus PT145 (polymer, looks good, don't know about availability of parts/accessories, it's also DAO)
-H&K USP (either Expert or Standard, V1, main downside is that if it's H&K it's going to be pricier)


Although more expensive - I'd also recommend a Sig P220

Greg-Dawg
06-27-2009, 10:26 AM
When I created this topic, I was asking for a handgun of good quality to get, not to debate the open carry laws. Please keep it on topic.

Glock 21.

cineski
06-27-2009, 10:41 AM
:cool:

How about a W. German or German or Pre-Cohen P220?

cineski
06-27-2009, 10:49 AM
HK is the best, IMO, and if you can score an HK45c that would be your best bet in the configuration you're looking at. Aside from Glock and XD's, you get what you pay for. When there's a maker that has a very verbal poor track record like Taurus, my ears perk up and I stay away. Now, if I may suggest another route that goes against your post? Take a look at the Kahr P45. It is simply awesome and a great carry piece. Very light and thin. It is DAO, but it has a very smooth revolver like trigger. Much lighter than a revolver, but still heavy enough. I simply love these little guys. The SIG 220 is cool if you go with what Majik wrote. Pre-Cohen means anything that's not a modern 220 because Mr. Cohen is running the company down a bumpy, muddy path. The 220 is quite a bit bigger than the other options, and to be honest has a great deal more muzzle flip due to a higher bore axis. The HK45 also handles +P's very well as it has a recoil dampener, rendering it a very soft shooting .45. .45 +P+ is .45 Super, and you have to find a gun that specifically shoots .45 Super. The HST .45 +P is an awesome round.

D53
06-27-2009, 10:57 AM
I used my Glock 22 and my Glock 19. I felt both were fine for what I was doing.

jello2594
06-27-2009, 11:19 AM
I open carry a Glock 21SF in a level 3 retention holster, or sometimes a Ruger P85 in a level 2 retention holster.

Hayashi Killian
06-27-2009, 12:02 PM
Thanks for the good advice everyone.

cineski: What bad info have you heard about Taurus? I've not heard anything negative (but I've not heard praises sung for them, either...) so if there's a bad track record I'll avoid them.

I'd like to get an H&K 45, they were one of my first choices, but unfortunately they're not on the Roster and to the best of my knowledge not purchasable. I'd also like to get the full-sized, not the compact.

hawk1
06-27-2009, 12:16 PM
When I created this topic, I was asking for a handgun of good quality to get, not to debate the open carry laws. Please keep it on topic. If you want to know my reasons, shoot me a PM.



Why did you mention open carry at all if you're looking for a handgun? There is no handgun line that is made specifically for open carry so I don't see the correlation?

Since you don't want this to be a debate on OC. Have you read this post (http://calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=2691092&postcount=252) and his whole thread on what he's going through? He knows the laws as well or better than you think you do. Yet you're concerned with finding a "OC handgun"...:rolleyes:

Hopefully you won't be another one posting in the future looking for donations and a good lawyer.

tuna quesadilla
06-27-2009, 12:41 PM
Why did you mention open carry at all if you're looking for a handgun? There is no handgun line that is made specifically for open carry so I don't see the correlation?

Since you don't want this to be a debate on OC. Have you read this post (http://calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=2691092&postcount=252) and his whole thread on what he's going through? He knows the laws as well or better than you think you do. Yet you're concerned with finding a "OC handgun"...:rolleyes:

Hopefully you won't be another one posting in the future looking for donations and a good lawyer.

Because some pistols have features that are more/less conducive to being a daily carry weapon?

Do you know exactly what Theseus is being charged with, and why? What exactly he did that caused these legal proceedings? No? Then please don't act like you know ANYTHING about the open carry movement -- it's pretty clear that you don't. Heaven forbid somebody actually stand up for their rights. The mindset that you have is exactly what the antigunners want. You're too afraid to do what's legal and right because of the possible consequences. Please quiet down and get out of the way of those of us who AREN'T afraid.

Beelzy
06-27-2009, 12:56 PM
Buy something that you won't mind being molested when Johnny wants to see
it and invariably drops it.

My $.02

B Strong
06-27-2009, 1:09 PM
Hello all, I've been browsing around this forum and the Calguns one for a while now after learning about California's open carry laws and I figured I'd start by getting myself a good pistol that I can carry around during my business. I've been looking at various models online and here's what I'm looking for:

-Chambered in .45ACP (other types of .45 are fine, .45 ACP is preferred) - major plus if it can handle +P or +P+ ammo
-SA/DA, not DAO
-For ease of loading/legality, only support CA-legal magazines, or if that's too restrictive, have CA-legal magazines easily available for purchase

I initially had 3 different models lined up and was considering doing a PPT with relatives/friends out of state, but after doing some research I'm deciding that will be a backup plan should I not be able to find something to my standards. Using some of my own knowledge combined with a recommendation by a member at Opencarry.org and using the approved handguns roster, I've seen 3 models that look appealing, but I am open for suggestions by other members.

-CZ97B (only downside to early CZ models is they're steel, and going to be heavy, should be around a kilogram)
-Taurus PT145 (polymer, looks good, don't know about availability of parts/accessories, it's also DAO)
-H&K USP (either Expert or Standard, V1, main downside is that if it's H&K it's going to be pricier)

If anyone has anything positive or negative to say about any of those models, or any other models to recommend, please let me know. I don't want to drop over $500 on a POS right now. ;)

If I were to OC, it would only be with a handgun I wouldn't mind having sit in a departmental evidence room.

Black Majik
06-27-2009, 1:11 PM
If I were to OC, it would only be with a handgun I wouldn't mind having sit in a departmental evidence room.

See, that's why a Glock fits that bill. :D

hawk1
06-27-2009, 1:12 PM
Because some pistols have features that are more/less conducive to being a daily carry weapon?

Do you know exactly what Theseus is being charged with, and why? What exactly he did that caused these legal proceedings? No? Then please don't act like you know ANYTHING about the open carry movement -- it's pretty clear that you don't. Heaven forbid somebody actually stand up for their rights. The mindset that you have is exactly what the antigunners want. You're too afraid to do what's legal and right because of the possible consequences. Please quiet down and get out of the way of those of us who AREN'T afraid.

I know exactly what he's being charged with. Thats my point. We can all agree it's BS, but at this point the only one that matters says otherwise.
Also, I don't act like anything. I weigh for myself what risks I want to take. If I get called on it I don't go asking for contributions to help out with a defense, all the while those at the Foundation are asking for OC people to hold off on open carry.
If you want to stand up and charge forward be my guest. I've read enough to see that you, and your type thinking, is not for the betterment of all gun owners. Many can argue that you are exactly what the antis what to point figures at and scream why we need more gun control.
Pick your fights and battles. To me, you look like you'd rather fight with other gun owners...

WyoDuner
06-27-2009, 1:23 PM
Hayashi, like you i prefer a DA/SA pistol too. I have an AZ CCW and carry with a round in the chamber and the hammer down.

Now, with open carry, you have to load a magazine and rack the slide to chamber a round before you can fire. In a DA/SA pistol you are now in SA mode. So... Maybe you would consider a SA pistol like a 1911 since for all practical purposes you are going to be in SA mode whether it is a DA/SA or SA only pistol since you have to rack the slide anyway.

Just a thought....

Also, I applaud anybody who is brave enough to open carry in this state. :patriot: Maybe, little by little, LEOs will become educated, the public less afraid and politicians aware that their constituents will not tolerate this type of repression.

Dangerous1
06-27-2009, 1:34 PM
If I open carried here in CA, I might consider carrying with the slide back. Maybe it'll make for a quicker mag load.

zrock
06-27-2009, 6:44 PM
Zip ties OR handcuffs ?

Hayashi Killian
06-27-2009, 9:41 PM
That's a good point you make WyoDuner, but if I carry with the slide back and locked, I can use a delocker to facilitate a quick load/chamber. That's something I find I like about the USP is the slide release and decocker.

I also have a propensity to shy away from Glocks due to bad experiences with them. I have a certain saying about boxes with grips: "They're better off thrown at the target, and since they're light, they can be thrown further than other handguns." But that's just my opinion. ;)

I'll probably head down to Iron Sights in Oceanside this week or next to test out a P220 or USP if they have them (they should have the USP, at least, I'll call ahead first). If anyone has any other models to recommend, keep 'em coming!

GoodEyeSniper
06-27-2009, 10:26 PM
Well, since you're planning on open carrying. I'd say get a glock, that way you won't get pissed when the overzealous cops confiscate your sig/hk/1911 etc...

I mean, it's just a glock...

:cool2:

oversteerdawg
06-28-2009, 4:56 PM
That's a good point you make WyoDuner, but if I carry with the slide back and locked, I can use a delocker to facilitate a quick load/chamber. That's something I find I like about the USP is the slide release and decocker.

I also have a propensity to shy away from Glocks due to bad experiences with them. I have a certain saying about boxes with grips: "They're better off thrown at the target, and since they're light, they can be thrown further than other handguns." But that's just my opinion. ;)

I'll probably head down to Iron Sights in Oceanside this week or next to test out a P220 or USP if they have them (they should have the USP, at least, I'll call ahead first). If anyone has any other models to recommend, keep 'em coming!

Please tell me this is not going to be your first handgun.

AC489
06-29-2009, 2:39 PM
P220 is what I'd recommend. Nice.

M198
06-30-2009, 12:30 AM
Hi-Point 380. That way you can just tell the cops to keep it. MSRP for $135.00

http://gundirectory.s3.amazonaws.com/guns/20185-1.jpg