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View Full Version : Pat Rogers' SOPMOD Review on 10-8


LAW483
02-18-2005, 6:42 PM
Pat Rogers' SOPMOD Review on 10-8 (http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=1065&an=0&page=0#1065)

If there is enough California interest Troy Industries, Inc. will run a California Legal Version.

Please express your interest here.

Take Care,

Tony

LAW483
02-18-2005, 6:42 PM
Pat Rogers' SOPMOD Review on 10-8 (http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=1065&an=0&page=0#1065)

If there is enough California interest Troy Industries, Inc. will run a California Legal Version.

Please express your interest here.

Take Care,

Tony

Mike Searson
02-18-2005, 6:51 PM
Thanks for the link, Tony.

Pat's my hero!

Semper Fi...and if Troy makes it, I want 2! http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

RRangel
02-18-2005, 8:38 PM
Great rifle. I wouldn't mind having one since I sold the SA Scout Squad rifle to help purchase my .50's. I plan on getting an SA SOCOM but this may be a great alternative.

esskay
02-19-2005, 3:25 AM
Ditto. Definitely interested in a Kali version, Tony. How would they configure it? Exactly the same except with a standard buttstock (or maybe one of your reduced LOP stocks) and no flash hider? Thanks!

LAW483
02-19-2005, 6:57 AM
esskay,

The configuration would either be a:

1) Fixed mag and stock with pistol grip, stripper-clip feed and abreviated top rail

or

2) Detachable mag with a LAW483 designed Semi-vertical ambidextrous Cali-legal grip stock, adjustable comb, and spacer adjustable (or 3 way adjustable) LOP (11.5" -13.5")

Both would have a Cali-legal Muzzle brake version of the Troy Medieval Muzzle Device.

What do you all prefer?

Take Care,

Tony

C.G.
02-19-2005, 11:37 AM
I vote for detachable mag!

LongBch_SigP226
02-19-2005, 11:49 AM
Love to see mock up drawings/pics.
Then I'll let you know which one I prefer.

Mike Searson
02-19-2005, 11:54 AM
I'd buy one of each!

Is the CA-Legal Medieval Muzzle device available stand-alone?

Yute
02-19-2005, 1:17 PM
Detachable mag if i can get the cash together http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif-
By the way if you guys don't know law483 makes excellent stocks!
Question: would we be able to choose out own barrels (of course accepting the degraded accuracy of lacking the match barrel) or does the design only allow the specified barrel?
Would the stock be based off a USGI fiberglass stock or will it be based off the regular SOPMOD with multiple attachment points?
Thanks!

LAW483
02-19-2005, 7:57 PM
The fixed mag version can be done now and would look like the following pic, with the following exceptions:

It would have a Cali compliant fixed 10 round mag, fixed stock with pistol grip, muzzle brake, no texturing (Troy's not doing that anymore), and it would have an abreiviated rail with a stripper clip guide to top-feed the fixed mag.

http://www.law483.com/photos/400/sopmodrightcollapsed.jpg

I am updating the detachable mag version prototype now and it will be several weeks for it's ready for pics. It will have an aluminum SOPMOD stock chassis with a buttstock of my design.

I can make Cali compliant custom Laminated Wood or XXX-Fancy wood stocks for those who want to order a SOPMOD at this time (if I can make one style of stock that will satify most customers). They would be expensive but very nice. I would send them to the factory to have them glass bedded, which would be an additional charge. Please Email me with your interest.

The SOPMOD uses a proprietary barrel with the patented gas system, so you could not supply your own barrels.

If there is enough interest, the Cali legal MMD muzzle brake will be available as a stand alone item.


Take Care,

Tony

RRangel
02-19-2005, 8:25 PM
I think most people would take a detachable mag over a fixed one any day regardless of the stock.

gobabygo
02-19-2005, 10:15 PM
Wow, very interested. How much are we talking about though?

esskay
02-20-2005, 2:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LAW483:
2) Detachable mag with a LAW483 designed Semi-vertical ambidextrous Cali-legal grip stock, adjustable comb, and spacer adjustable (or 3 way adjustable) LOP (11.5" -13.5")
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Detachable mag & synthetic stock with aluminum chassis for me!! http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif By the way, is this a new version with aluminum rather than magnesium/titanium?

LongBch_SigP226
02-20-2005, 4:30 AM
Next question is how much. I don't see myself spending more than $1000 (on the high end) for a handgun and no more than $1500 (again on the high end) for a rifle. I guess this disqualifies me as a potential buyer.

LAW483
02-20-2005, 5:41 AM
The price for a Free State Rifle right now is $2600 for a conversion on your rifle and $3800 for a new rifle. Many don't realize that this is very competative with conversions being done on military rifles right now and in some cases it's less. While it may be more than some are willing to spend, it is a very good price for what you get. The SOPMOD is a compact sniper system with sub MOA accuracy when benched/rucked and with the right ammo and shooter. Many spend $400+ on a Remingtom 700 based bolt gun. This has much more capability. It is a Multi Role Weapons system.

Take Care,

Tony

rkt88edmo
02-21-2005, 10:36 AM
Looks awesome, though way out of my budget for years to come. Thanks Tony and Co. for taking us into consideration, you guys get a big thumbs up.

SI-guru
02-21-2005, 6:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LAW483:
The fixed mag version can be done now and would look like the following pic, with the following exceptions:
It would have a Cali compliant fixed 10 round mag, fixed stock with pistol grip, muzzle brake, no texturing (Troy's not doing that anymore), and it would have an abreiviated rail with a stripper clip guide to top-feed the fixed mag.

Tony </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tony,
If the magazine is fixed, why not keep all the evil features ? Or at least pin the stock to more than over 30 inches but still extendible ?

colossians323
02-21-2005, 7:08 PM
Detachable mag here, I can't stand the fixed mag "assault weapons"

esskay
03-20-2005, 1:44 AM
Howdy Tony,
Any update on this project? Thanks!!

dave3006
03-20-2005, 7:09 AM
Why? A fixed mag on an M1A? The standard version is far superior. Why does everyone need to hang so much junk on their guns?

LAW483
03-20-2005, 7:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dave3006:
Why? A fixed mag on an M1A? The standard version is far superior. Why does everyone need to hang so much junk on their guns? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why? Why What?

A fixed mag on an M1A? Fixed mag option was considered because of Cali's funky laws and some wanted to retain the pistol grip, no other reason.

The standard version is far superior. Based on what experience, facts, and evidence? The reviewer, who has experience with the Rock SOPMOD and nearly every confiquration of the M14 type rifle writes the following:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The gun ran like a top... was able to get solid hits on a steel option target at 800yds...This is a very cool gun, and makes the M14 run like it should...This gun is accurate, controllable and a lot more fun to shoot than an M14...The Rock stock is flat good. The price is money of course, but you get a greatly enhanced package that is much closer to a Multi Role Rifle.
I was not surprised at the quality of the 5R barrel- i've used them on my M14 in Service Rifle. What impressed me was the overall controlability of the platform...Short answer is i will buy a Rock gun... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why does everyone need to hang so much junk on their guns? First, the shooter was performing a T&E on the SOPMOD and all of the equipment that what mounted on it. Second, the equipment represents what Spec Ops is using on their carbines. Third, a better question would be "What capability do those accessories bring to the weapon?" with the answer being better first round hit probability in day and low-light and night operations.

Take Care,

Tony

LAW483
03-20-2005, 7:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by esskay:
Howdy Tony,
Any update on this project? Thanks!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

esskay,

According to Troy, they are making the following Cali-legal confiquration:

Detachable mag
Funky non-pistol grip attached instead on the regular grip (something like what you find on the FAB-10 website, I'm told)
Fixed buttstock
Muzzle Brake

Please call Troy Industries at (413) 243-9315 for more details as this is their project.

BTW; I will still make a Cali-legal custom laminated/regular/exotic wood stock for the Rock SOPMOD for those who prefer wood and metal, but want the short, accurate, and controlable package that the SOPMOD offers.

Take Care,

Tony

Turbinator
03-20-2005, 9:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Question originally posted by dave3006:
Why does everyone need to hang so much junk on their guns? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why ask why? The answer is "because we want to!" There shouldn't be much justification in this hobby/sport/pastime because as you go down that slippery slope, you'll find yourself eventually have to defend the 2nd Amendment. We should be able to because it is our RIGHT to do so!

Just my not-so-humble-opinion.

Turby

LAW483
03-20-2005, 9:44 AM
Turbinator,

I aggree!

Take Care,

Tony

esskay
03-20-2005, 10:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LAW483:
esskay,

According to Troy, they are making the following Cali-legal confiquration:

Detachable mag
Funky non-pistol grip attached instead on the regular grip (something like what you find on the FAB-10 website, I'm told)
Fixed buttstock
Muzzle Brake

Please call Troy Industries at (413) 243-9315 for more details as this is their project.

BTW; I will still make a Cali-legal custom laminated/regular/exotic wood stock for the Rock SOPMOD for those who prefer wood and metal, but want the short, accurate, and controlable package that the SOPMOD offers.

Take Care,

Tony </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hm, the little "thumb hook" like on the FAB-10 illustration is not so appealing nor practical... I was envisioning something more like the "Sage Recce" custom stock that you built for that guy on M14-forums by grafting a synthetic buttstock onto a Sage frame.

Will you make a synthetic version in addition to the wood for the Rock SOPMOD?

If I had known about these possibilities, I would have tried to join your group buy earlier this year!! http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

LAW483
03-20-2005, 11:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by esskay:

Hm, the little "thumb hook" like on the FAB-10 illustration is not so appealing nor practical... I was envisioning something more like the "Sage Recce" custom stock that you built for that guy on M14-forums by grafting a synthetic buttstock onto a Sage frame.

Will you make a synthetic version in addition to the wood for the Rock SOPMOD?

If I had known about these possibilities, I would have tried to join your group buy earlier this year!! http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The thumb hook is not appealling visually, but is something Troy can do now without retooling for an unknown market.

The Stock I built for the guy on M14 forum is similar to the SOPMOD Calimando stock I built two years ago well before Sage showed anything similar. People did not care for it so Troy shelved the project. Now people are warming up to the design. We are planing a similar project based on Troy's forthcoming drop-in MSS, but the MSS must be well into production before Troy will go for that.

It's catch 22. People won't commit to buying them, so the manufacturer is reluctant to make a high dollar investment in making them.

I will make a synthetic Cali-legal SOPMOD stock if there is interest, but after the wood ones prove there is interest in the basic design. The tooling costs make it unfeasable to make a mold for an unproven design. I am redesigning the Calimando using some of my other designs as inspriation.

There is so much more to the SOPMOD than the cool stock. People see the stock and not the whole package. You may notice that in Pat Roger's review, the controlability was the main thing that set the SOPMOD apart. The controlabilty has to do with the gas system, not the stock. If you go with the thumb hook Cali version you can get it in-country and explore the possibilities.

I have several customers in Cali and am willing to work with them.

Take Care,

Tony

SI-guru
03-20-2005, 1:18 PM
Tony,
Is this the Sage stock you are refering to ?

http://www.hunt101.com/img/260990-big.JPG

It seems they use the Remington 870 stock attachment method (I believe that is actually a Speed Feed synthetic stock for Remington) so in theory, most of the stock built for Remington can be modified to use on Sage. Why not do the same on Troy, then the options for stock is wide open.

SI-guru
03-20-2005, 1:34 PM
Also, I don't believe the thumb hook in Fab10 site is legal in California since it is below the imaginary line drawn on top of the trigger.

http://www.fabten.com/newgrip.gif

LAW483
03-20-2005, 2:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jjc:
Also, I don't believe the thumb hook in Fab10 site is legal in California since it is below the imaginary line drawn on top of the trigger. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

jjc,

They said it was like that, but not exactly. I have not seen it. You'll have to go direct with Troy as it is thier idea and not mine.

http://dboy.cpgl.net/USA/m14m21/m14sopmod.jpg

I used a Mossberg stock on the Calimando, and not a Reminton because I like the relationship between the grip and the trigger better for that purpose. However, It was just a proof of concept to test the market. The drop on the comb was too low, and I was going to raise it, but Troy stopped development.

What we'll do is up in the air, but the stocks you speak of are designed as shotgun stocks. While they can work, If your spending $650+ for a stock or $2500 + for a complete conversion, I'd rather offer something designed to work specifically for that rifle and offer more than one option.

Take Care,

Tony

SI-guru
03-20-2005, 2:35 PM
Tony,
I would say if you can offer a standard set of stock that can replace the Sage speed feed stock portion with a more vertical grip, adjustable cheek pad and LOP, that will be an awesome start already.

LAW483
03-20-2005, 5:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jjc:
Tony,
I would say if you can offer a standard set of stock that can replace the Sage speed feed stock portion with a more vertical grip, adjustable cheek pad and LOP, that will be an awesome start already. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have considered this, but was going to do it for Troy instead; however, that may be a while.

I already offer these stocks and have new Laminated wood versions in the works:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/Law483/LAW483%20Rifle%20Stocks/Short%20LOP%20Stock/DSC00841.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/Law483/LAW483%20Rifle%20Stocks/Vertical%20Grip%20Off%20Hand%20Stock/Dsc00796.jpg

A new tail end for the Sage is not out of the question. Here is a simple one that I have already made (The camo is not my work, but the stock is. I could have done a spacer sytem, but the customer did no want that):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/Law483/sageR2.jpg

Take Care,

Tony

Turbinator
03-20-2005, 7:17 PM
Hey Tony,

Those are really nifty stocks you have there! I like the grey colored one, and the desert camo design with the adjustable cheek rest is just awesome!

Turby

LAW483
03-20-2005, 7:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Turbinator:
Hey Tony,

Those are really nifty stocks you have there! I like the grey colored one, and the desert camo design with the adjustable cheek rest is just awesome!

Turby </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Turby,

Thanks! The grey colored one has my enhanced magwell as does the tan one, which also has my enhanced forend. The Vertical Grip Off-Hand stock is at the duplicator at this time and will be available soon. The Sage is very nice, but I have some lighter weight and more ergonomic options.

Back on topic...

I can build similar stocks for the Rock SOPMOD.

Take care,

Tony

SI-guru
03-21-2005, 12:23 AM
Tony,
That's what I have in mind, although those who have SOPMOD or EBR as carbine role will probably not need the spacer or the rear hook.

http://www.hunt101.com/img/266283-big.JPG

Sniper3142
03-21-2005, 5:33 PM
Personally I like the SAGE stock much better.

I've got one on order for my AW/M1A. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Troy let me down when they RADICALLY changed the specs and design of their "M.S.S. Drop-In stock". http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

My only regret is waiting until I finally saw one before ordering a SAGE. http://www.calguns.net/banghead.gif

LAW483
03-21-2005, 6:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sniper3142:
Personally I like the SAGE stock much better.

I've got one on order for my AW/M1A. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Troy let me down when they RADICALLY changed the specs and design of their "M.S.S. Drop-In stock". http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

My only regret is waiting until I finally saw one before ordering a SAGE. http://www.calguns.net/banghead.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Sage is a nice stock, enjoy!

Take Care,

Tony

Yute
03-22-2005, 7:51 AM
Off topic question but can the MSS stock work with the Troy sopmod? Probably not but just wondering!

The FAbten pistol grip modification throws me off a bit, mainly because it seems akward and have not seen any cal legal ar15s using that grip yet.. however while it bothers me i still want to see what troy comes up with. perhaps if there's enough people who can commit to a group buy, troy would be willing to fit the wishes that cali residents really want? Anyway, thank you Tony for keeping us up do date!

LAW483
03-22-2005, 12:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Yute85:
Off topic question but can the MSS stock work with the Troy sopmod? Probably not but just wondering!

...perhaps if there's enough people who can commit to a group buy, troy would be willing to fit the wishes that cali residents really want? Anyway, thank you Tony for keeping us up do date! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yute85,

The MSS will not fit the SOPMOD, but if it proves to be popular, the SOPMOD could be offered in that confiquration.

Do Cali residents want a Cali-Legal standard-stocked Rock SOPMOD or do they want a Cali-legal standard-stocked drop-in?

Take care,

Tony

Yute
03-22-2005, 6:54 PM
Well, personally if it's the difference between the funny FABTEN pistol grip and a modified MSS, I would take the MSS - but that's just me. Bit i wouldn't mind seeing pics of both first http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
We should do a poll!

LAW483
03-22-2005, 7:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Yute85:
Well, personally if it's the difference between the funny FABTEN pistol grip and a modified MSS, I would take the MSS - but that's just me. Bit i wouldn't mind seeing pics of both first http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
We should do a poll! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, Troy will most likely do a dropin standard grip MSS in the $650 dollar range before he offers the Calimando SOPMOD with the standard style grip at $2600 plus your rifle.

A pole is a good idea, but let me get some pics first.

Take Care,

Tony

LAW483
03-22-2005, 8:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Technical Ted:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Yute85:
The FAbten pistol grip modification throws me off a bit, mainly because it seems akward and have not seen any cal legal ar15s using that grip yet... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Because the CA DOJ doesn't consider it a legal modification. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the info. I have passed it to Troy. I have not seen the grip modification they do, and it's not adding the Fab10 grip, but they said it was similar in concept.

I want to make the enhanced Calimando stock, but the MSS has to be completed first.

Take Care,

Tony

SI-guru
03-22-2005, 9:34 PM
Without the SOPMOD gas mod goodness, how does the MSS different from the SOCOM II ?

http://www.springfield-armory.com/images/rifles/AA9627Large.jpg

voodoo
03-22-2005, 10:21 PM
Does anyone know if SAGE will sell just the "front end" of the stock assembly, without the collapsible stock???

SI-guru
03-22-2005, 10:58 PM
Short answer : no. I've asked already. But you can buy the Cali version with the Speed Feed stock, throw the rear part away and ask Tony to make a much nicer one for you (vertical grip, cheekrest etc).

I think the whole point of this thread is Tony is trying to figure out what we want to prioritize his work. Is it going to be Calimando, MSS or EBR or what ? Let's give him the right idea.

ps I'll vote for the EBR with vertical grip and cheekrest. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://home.graffiti.net/3par/vertical.JPG

voodoo
03-23-2005, 6:30 AM
jjc:

Where can I purchase the Cali version?

I have't seen it available before, with the exception of Fulton Armory (and they no longer stock it).

Thanks

LAW483
03-23-2005, 11:25 AM
The topic had shifted so I started a new thread HERE (http://calguns.net/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=888602736&f=332609466&m=77310426321&r=77310426321#77310426321)

Take Care,

Tony