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View Full Version : 1911 Ext. slide release opinions for SD


ERdept
06-25-2009, 8:00 AM
I notice that almost all the big name customizers I contact, Ned Christiansen, Fletcher Customs, Condition One, etc. have photos of their 1911's with a standard slide release.

I've read elsewhere that the EXTENDED slide release could be a detriment and that proper training dictates release of the slide with the support hand (left hand for me).

And, that the slide release due to the weight may actually engage in a critical situation.


BUT this has never happened in all my 1911's previously in every situation from slow target to rapid fire competition.

I feel it's OK, any concerns on your part if you were to have a gun done for SD.

Black Majik
06-25-2009, 8:07 AM
I would have to disagree. I use it as a slidelock, the only time it is touched is to put the gun into slidelock when empty. Otherwise, it is always slingshotted to chamber a fresh round.

Extended thumb safety, sure. That won't be engaged on it's own since my thumb rides it. Extended slide lock? Pass.

But then we get into the whole slide lock vs. slide release debate again. YMMV.

JTROKS
06-25-2009, 8:10 AM
I would have to disagree. I use it as a slidelock, the only time it is touched is to put the gun into slidelock when empty. Otherwise, it is always slingshotted to chamber a fresh round.

Extended thumb safety, sure. That won't be engaged on it's own since my thumb rides it. Extended slide lock? Pass.

But then we get into the whole slide lock vs. slide release debate again. YMMV.

For USPSA use - Same here.

Army
06-25-2009, 9:46 AM
Never had any issues with my extended locks. I do not use extended safeties as they seem to be in my way.

Snake eyes
06-25-2009, 8:39 PM
A simple tactic is to never let your gun "run dry". Count your shots, re-load while the last round is still in the chamber. The benefits of this tactic are you're capable of firing a shot, if neccessary, during the re-loading process. Re-loading under the stress of combat can be harder and might take longer than one might expect and that "reserve" round might come in handy.

Another benefit is you don't have to fumble with the slide release or use the "sling-shot" method while under extreme stress, these actions take precious frations of a second which can mean the difference between life and death in a self-defense situation.

My defense "strategy" is, draw, point, shoot center mass while moving to one side or the other (don't want to provide a stationary target), head towards cover if available, continue firing until threat goes down, count my shots as I shoot (this isn't hard because I only load eight rounds in my 1911), after I've fired 7 shots I replace the empty mag with a full one (preferably from a position of cover).

I also believe the best gun is a fully loaded gun so even if a situation only required me to fire 1 or 2 shots I would re-load as quickly as saftey allowed.

Of course I recognize that a strategy is often the first casualty in combat but I still think it's a good idea to have one and train with it.

slick_711
06-25-2009, 9:32 PM
I would have to disagree. I use it as a slidelock, the only time it is touched is to put the gun into slidelock when empty. Otherwise, it is always slingshotted to chamber a fresh round.

Extended thumb safety, sure. That won't be engaged on it's own since my thumb rides it. Extended slide lock? Pass.

But then we get into the whole slide lock vs. slide release debate again. YMMV.

+1

I don't like them for my personal use. I could see it on a "race gun" but I just don't see a need on a defensive gun. May just be preference, but I too always "slingshot" the slide. Just a more reliable feed. Also, I have large hands and ride the thumb safety, my thumb touches some of the extended slide locks I've shot with, and on more than one occasion I've had the gun fail to lock open on an empty mag because of this (Glocks and Sigs ALWAYS do this to me because of thumb position). If you count your shots as suggested above this is not necessarily a problem, but if you don't; this could leave you with an empty gun without your realizing it. No thank you.

Sam
06-25-2009, 9:43 PM
A simple tactic is to never let your gun "run dry". Count your shots, re-load while the last round is still in the chamber. The benefits of this tactic are you're capable of firing a shot, if neccessary, during the re-loading process. Re-loading under the stress of combat can be harder and might take longer than one might expect and that "reserve" round might come in handy.

Another benefit is you don't have to fumble with the slide release or use the "sling-shot" method while under extreme stress, these actions take precious frations of a second which can mean the difference between life and death in a self-defense situation.

My defense "strategy" is, draw, point, shoot center mass while moving to one side or the other (don't want to provide a stationary target), head towards cover if available, continue firing until threat goes down, count my shots as I shoot (this isn't hard because I only load eight rounds in my 1911), after I've fired 7 shots I replace the empty mag with a full one (preferably from a position of cover).

I also believe the best gun is a fully loaded gun so even if a situation only required me to fire 1 or 2 shots I would re-load as quickly as saftey allowed.

Of course I recognize that a strategy is often the first casualty in combat but I still think it's a good idea to have one and train with it.

I like to use the slide stop as a slide lock and slingshot to reload.

While I'd agree with your idea in theory I have a hard time believing anyone except high speed, low drag operators would be able to count with the kinds of stress such an event entails.

HCz
06-25-2009, 11:02 PM
It's depends on the gun and the shooter.

For my often used pistol(CZ P-01) I use slide release. Never had problems with it.

But on some other guns, I prefer overhand method.

Some people have no problem using a standard slide release/lock on a 1911.

Train the way you are happy with.

As for counting shots, as Sam mentioned, it is very unlikely that you will count the bullets.

leelaw
06-25-2009, 11:31 PM
I don't see a problem with using one. Just decide if you want one, and how you will use it. Will it be for locking the slide open only, or to release it to battery as well?

Then practice, practice, practice using it like how you decided.

I currently have a 1911 variant with an extended thumb safety and slide catch as my go-to pistol. I use the catch as the release on all of my pistols, and practice accordingly.

pedro_c111
06-26-2009, 12:46 AM
For me it's pretty much a must. Otherwise I would not be able to comfortably lock the slide.

walter
06-26-2009, 1:02 PM
I use slingshot just because it's the sane for all guns while the slide release are different positions on all guns

Fjold
06-26-2009, 5:32 PM
The logic that a heavier slide release could cause it to engage unintentionally seems flawed to me. Wouldn't the extra weight have a tendency to keep it from not engaging accidently?

Being left handed I like the extended slide release, I can reach it with my trigger finger.

Grumpyoldretiredcop
06-26-2009, 8:40 PM
I'm the other way around... extended slide stops just get in my way. I'm a lefty also, but never use the slide stop as a slide release.

Snake eyes
06-26-2009, 10:21 PM
As with anything else, enough practice will achieve the desired effect.

People often say the 1911 is a poor choice for self-defense because of the thumb safety. They say under stress one might forget to disengage it or be physically unable to do so. I always say if a person doesen't possess enough self control under stress to perform such a simple act as flipping off the thumb safety then I wouldn't trust them with any gun. I look upon counting shots the same way. After all if it's a 1911, carried for SD, how many shot are we talking about 8-9?

Although I mentioned stress as a factor in my previous post it has nothing to do with my using the "count" method. My reasons are-

1- In a combat situation, as long as I'm able, I prefer to remain armed and ready while re-loading. Keeping one in the pipe gives me the ability to continue fighting back during a very vulnerable time (the re-load).

2- Speed. Although technically it doesn't take a whole lot of time to hit the slide release or sling shot, in a combat situation, when you need to get back to "operational" as quickly as possible, fractions of a second can mean the difference between life or death. I consider anything that allows me to continue shooting agin as quickly as possible to be a good thing. Once I count 7, I just drop the empty, slap in the fresh one, and I start shooting agin. Fast and smooth.

3- In a combat situation I think it's very important to know exactly how many rounds (shots) one has left. Whether in their gun or on hand for re-loading.

A few observations on re-loading and why I like to keep one in the pipe:

Many things can go wrong during a re-load. Have you ever been practicing your SD re-load, or shooting competion, and dropped the fresh mag. It happens sometimes. Not neccessarily from a lack of skill but rather just something that happens. I'd say it can happen to anyone. Now imagine you're in a combat situation and you drop your fresh mag during the re-load. It's dark, were'd that mag go?, that thing you just kicked- was that it?!!! Meanwhile you're standing there with an empty gun. How many extra mags do you carry?

How do you carry your extra mag(s) for SD? In a pocket? On your belt underneath a concealing garment? Ever been practicing your SD re-load and experience a momentary obstruction or difficulty while reaching for your mag? That little bit of time is precious.

As far as counting ones shots being difficult, I couldn't disagree more. Firing a shot is a very definite and concious act. Combine that with the reaction you get from a 45 1911 (flash, bang, re-coil) and the act of firing a shot is difficult to ignore. Pull the triger once, that's 1 round. Pull the trigger agin, that's 2 rounds. Counting from 1 to 7, while shooting a gun, even under stress shouldn't be that difficult. Ask any LEO or combat vet and they can tell you that in a combat situation, when the bullets are flying, they are required to concentrate and proccess SEVERAL pieces of information (background, personnel movement, new orders/instructions, ect). Counting ones shots, 1 to 7, strikes me as very easy by comparison.

I'm not saying the "count" method is for everyone. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything (just passin time on the ole internet). I do believe that at the very least, counting ones shots is good for developing ones shooting dicipline. A mental exersise to keep your mind focused on the task at hand. The most important thing in a fight is maintaining mental self-control, keeping a cool head. Without that, all the firepower in the world is worthless.

randy
06-26-2009, 11:57 PM
+1

I don't like them for my personal use. I could see it on a "race gun" but I just don't see a need on a defensive gun. May just be preference, but I too always "slingshot" the slide. Just a more reliable feed. Also, I have large hands and ride the thumb safety, my thumb touches some of the extended slide locks I've shot with, and on more than one occasion I've had the gun fail to lock open on an empty mag because of this (Glocks and Sigs ALWAYS do this to me because of thumb position). If you count your shots as suggested above this is not necessarily a problem, but if you don't; this could leave you with an empty gun without your realizing it. No thank you.

+1 Winner
The correct hand position for shooting a 1911 is with your thumb on top of the safety. In doing this your thumb can if long enough will cause the slide lock not to hold the slide open. Having your thumb on top of the safety helps drive the gun deeper into the web of your hand and gives you more control. This is if your hands are big enough, which other than small kids and women most likely are.

A couple of reasons there are extended thumb safetys is to help keep your thumb on top of the safety and to help engage and disengage it.

I'm sure somebody is going to say "I've been shooting these guns for 40 years and I don't shoot it that way". That's all well good but you will have more control doing it with a high thumb. If it weren't better the best pistol shooters in the world wouldn't shoot that way. It works with Weaver or Isosceles.

As far as counting rounds in a stress situation most after action reports tell you the shooter has no clue as to how many rounds they've fired. I watched many a shooter do a standing reload (myself included) because there's more important things to consider when shooting than counting.

If you can do it good on ya but I'm skeptical you will always be able to do it.

aplinker
06-27-2009, 12:04 AM
Have you been through much combat?

As with anything else, enough practice will achieve the desired effect.

People often say the 1911 is a poor choice for self-defense because of the thumb safety. They say under stress one might forget to disengage it or be physically unable to do so. I always say if a person doesen't possess enough self control under stress to perform such a simple act as flipping off the thumb safety then I wouldn't trust them with any gun. I look upon counting shots the same way. After all if it's a 1911, carried for SD, how many shot are we talking about 8-9?

Although I mentioned stress as a factor in my previous post it has nothing to do with my using the "count" method. My reasons are-

1- In a combat situation, as long as I'm able, I prefer to remain armed and ready while re-loading. Keeping one in the pipe gives me the ability to continue fighting back during a very vulnerable time (the re-load).

2- Speed. Although technically it doesn't take a whole lot of time to hit the slide release or sling shot, in a combat situation, when you need to get back to "operational" as quickly as possible, fractions of a second can mean the difference between life or death. I consider anything that allows me to continue shooting agin as quickly as possible to be a good thing. Once I count 7, I just drop the empty, slap in the fresh one, and I start shooting agin. Fast and smooth.

3- In a combat situation I think it's very important to know exactly how many rounds (shots) one has left. Whether in their gun or on hand for re-loading.

A few observations on re-loading and why I like to keep one in the pipe:

Many things can go wrong during a re-load. Have you ever been practicing your SD re-load, or shooting competion, and dropped the fresh mag. It happens sometimes. Not neccessarily from a lack of skill but rather just something that happens. I'd say it can happen to anyone. Now imagine you're in a combat situation and you drop your fresh mag during the re-load. It's dark, were'd that mag go?, that thing you just kicked- was that it?!!! Meanwhile you're standing there with an empty gun. How many extra mags do you carry?

How do you carry your extra mag(s) for SD? In a pocket? On your belt underneath a concealing garment? Ever been practicing your SD re-load and experience a momentary obstruction or difficulty while reaching for your mag? That little bit of time is precious.

As far as counting ones shots being difficult, I couldn't disagree more. Firing a shot is a very definite and concious act. Combine that with the reaction you get from a 45 1911 (flash, bang, re-coil) and the act of firing a shot is difficult to ignore. Pull the triger once, that's 1 round. Pull the trigger agin, that's 2 rounds. Counting from 1 to 7, while shooting a gun, even under stress shouldn't be that difficult. Ask any LEO or combat vet and they can tell you that in a combat situation, when the bullets are flying, they are required to concentrate and proccess SEVERAL pieces of information (background, personnel movement, new orders/instructions, ect). Counting ones shots, 1 to 7, strikes me as very easy by comparison.

I'm not saying the "count" method is for everyone. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything (just passin time on the ole internet). I do believe that at the very least, counting ones shots is good for developing ones shooting dicipline. A mental exersise to keep your mind focused on the task at hand. The most important thing in a fight is maintaining mental self-control, keeping a cool head. Without that, all the firepower in the world is worthless.

STAGE 2
06-27-2009, 9:43 AM
+1 Winner
The correct hand position for shooting a 1911 is with your thumb on top of the safety.

Statements like this have always bothered me. There is no one way to swing a golf club, or a baseball bat. There is no one particular running gait. Everyone has a variation of a technique that suits them best because everyone is built differently.

Yet somehow for firearms, there is only one way. Sorry, but that simply doesn't wash. If nothing else, there are plenty of places that disagree with riding the safety with the 1911 including the military. If you like it and it works for you thats great. However dont expect it to work for everyone, especially considering how different two peoples hands can be.

Nor do I think that competition is the end all be all of shooting. Someone posted a story of Todd Jarrett trying to wow a bunch of combat troops with his speed at shooting steel plates. Well, they had him hump a ruck for a couple miles in the heat and then engage some targets and it wasn't so pretty.

Things get real different real quick when bullets are incoming as well as outgoing, and many of these competition shooters don't have an idea what thats like.