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joel1316
07-08-2005, 10:35 AM
I'm just checking to see how far off I am from owning a SA Loaded M1A? Who's got the best deal in the Bay Area?

HEUER
07-08-2005, 11:06 AM
City Arms in Pacifica Ca has a couple for around 1700.00. I purchased my loaded M1A from Frank Tabor's in San Bruno for about the same, but I got the rifle I wanted and had checked several shops in the Bay Area. I have already gone through the route of hunting down the "best deal" in SF Bay Area which usually means I am going to spend 50 dollars on gas to buy the rifle, and another 50 dollars to pick it up. Not to mention time and frustration. I would rather spend the time at the range. Loaded models are tough to find, all I seem to see these days are the SOCOM models. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Tabor's had a couple of second hand models available, and I think one was a walnut stainless barrel loaded model 1200.00(not sure).

The loaded model is pricey compared to a comparable Fulton Armory unit with GI parts, but I have owned my standard for about five years and have had no problems with SA parts.

I have seen CA loaded models at impact guns for as low as 1400.00.

M1A's are the only real detachable magazine battle rifles available in CA, and like with a lot of things in the Bay Area prices are sometimes inflated.

The advantage of the SP pretty much boils down to a lifetime warranty and general availability of the rifle itself.

SP, Enterprise, Fulton, Armscorp (making for Fulton with Fulton blue prints I think don't quote me), Smith (used to produce, suppossed to produce in the future forged recievers), and LRB (forged recievers will be introducing m25 with integrated scope mounts) all produce m14 type rifles. LRB forged recievers are generally considered to be the pick of the litter. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

bwiese
07-08-2005, 12:09 PM
If you find old inventory item of a 'standard model' M1A you might luck out with a chrome-lined barrel. Seems that beginning around 2002 standard models stopped coming w/chrome-lined bbls.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

joel1316
07-08-2005, 12:50 PM
I'm just coming back out of my gun hibernation. Thanks for saving me a couple trips and a couple phone calls. $1700 for a Loaded one eh..... I think I may set my sites a little lower to a standard. I was on Guns America and saw a Socom for $1445, hmmmmm.

xsquid
07-08-2005, 1:35 PM
And to think I sold my pre-ban, all USGI parts, SuperMatch for a mere $1600 a few months ago...

HEUER
07-08-2005, 1:49 PM
Moving from a Standard length barrel (20 inch on a standard and or "loaded model") to a 16 inch barrel means that your going to be losing some velocity. What is it for? Before making an investment on a 1500 dollar piece of equipment, ask yourself a couple of questions. Battle rifles (even the sixteen inch SOCOM) are not the best choice for home defense for many reasons (a shotgun or revolver in a magnum cal would be better). If this is going to be used at the range on a bench for target shooting the longer the barrel the better. If the rifle is going to be used on a farm or ranch I would recommend a scout squad model with a CA legal SEI break. Standard SA rifles are great (even with SA parts), but as bwiese stated they no longer come with chrome barrels. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

esskay
07-08-2005, 1:55 PM
Just to clarify, a standard length barrel is 22"

Best option--get one of each!! http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

HEUER
07-08-2005, 2:04 PM
M1A/M14 type rifles are going through the roof in Nor Cal. I have recieved a lot of excellent advise from some of the more seasoned calguns members on building one with all USGI parts, but I want to stay in the 1200.00 range for a rack grade. The availabilty of USGI parts is probably increasing overall cost. My advice is to buy now, they are only going up in price even the SP models.

HEUER
07-08-2005, 2:08 PM
Originally posted by esskay:
Just to clarify, a standard length barrel is 22"

Best option--get one of each!! http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Thanks Esskay 22 inch standard / approx 25 1/6" with ca mb. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

joel1316
07-08-2005, 2:14 PM
The M1A/M14 is going to be more of a "I've got mines" type of purchase. So, I'm really not stuck into getting any specific model as they are all great in my book. I'd really like a loaded, but finances state otherwise...

HEUER
07-08-2005, 2:46 PM
Call Irvington Arms (in Fremont S Grimmer across from Tri City if I remember) get a quote.

Blue
07-08-2005, 3:13 PM
I paid $1224 out the door for my M1a around three months ago. NM barrel, front sight and some special trigger group. 2 10rd mags, sling. All brand new. The right one is out there, just keep looking.

RRangel
07-08-2005, 5:26 PM
$1700 for a loaded model M1A? That's pretty high. I bought my M1A National Match new for $1400 back in 2000. I say look around and do some shopping. The less you're in a rush the better.

TonyNorCal
07-08-2005, 5:52 PM
All good suggestions.

I would say your best deal will be to buy one from an internet forum...

As mentioned above, current issue Springfield M1As do not have USGI parts (although I recently heard of a new one that did...but I think it's rare now). I called Sprinfield a while back and was informed they ran out of USGI chrome-lined barrel around the end of 2002 (although as mentioned above I heard of a new one that did...but if true it's uncommon).

If you're patient and check the boards listed below regularly you will likely find an older M1A that has USGI parts (or at least barrel) for significantly less than new retail. You can also go Chinese (forged receiver - better than Springfield's cast, although some other parts (bolt) may need replacing). Bottom line is, I would not buy a new M1 with no GI parts when I can get one with for less. My new Chinese arrived at the FFL yesterday...forged receiver, chrome lined barrel...$650.

Places to look...

AR15.com (yes, they seem to have a fair amount of M1As)

http://www.m-14forum.com/index.php

http://battlerifles.ambackforum.com/

warrifles.com

and also check gun broker

HEUER
07-08-2005, 7:09 PM
I purchased my standard (chrome lined barrel, many GI parts no GI bolt) in 1999 for 1100 out the door w / tax. But what can you do. The loaded model I bought was expensive, but I have never had a single problem with my standard, so I figure I would purchase from a shop that had one in stock near the city (we only have one gun store in the the city and county where I live and I still went to the next county).

As far as shopping is concerened in the San Francisco Bay Area, I remember SF gun Exchage was not the least expensive dealer when they were open.

As far as Poly M14 type rifles are concerned hopefully by the end of this month I will have mine in hand for 500 ( by the way between 1989 when there were no longer allowed in and 1994 when Fed AWB came into effect many dist rebuilt with GI parts) through a friend of mine with a GI bolt already headspaced.

The "M14 type rifle" by Joe Poyer is an excellent resource and I suggest that if you own a M14 type rifle you might want to get a copy. If you are planning on having only one M14 type rifle and it is going to be a POLY M14, pages 27 through 29 may interest you.

From the book:

True or not, both the Norinco and Polytech 14 type rifles are wholly made in mainland China. There have been conflicting reports regarding their suitability for shooting. One report in which the hardness of the Springfield Inc. hammer and bolt were compared to the Polytech hammer and bolt show quite a difference-the Springfield parts both measured 58 on the Rockwell C scale while the Polytech parts measured 46 and 44 respectively. Springfield receivers measured 50 and the Polytech 44. Springfield barrels measured 33 while the Polytech barrel was just 29. By way of comparison, the enterprise M14a2 receiver tested 55 to 57 on the Rockwell C scale.

The bottom line is that while Chinese receivers are forged, no one can say with any type of certainty without a metallurgical analysis what the original composition of steel was used to manufacture the receivers. Generally, Chinese receivers are considered to be very good. You never know. With my SA there is a life time warranty that POLY's and Norinco do not come with, but for 5 bills I will take a chance.

TonyNorCal
07-08-2005, 10:56 PM
I don't disagree with anything in your post and I don't wish to represent myself as an M-14 expert. I too have seen the above info regarding Springfield's tests. However, I think it is important to consider that Springfield was in direct competition with Norinco/Polytech, potential sales were on the line, and I am not confident that such a situation leads to scientific objectivity.

Furthermore, Springfield doesn't have such a splendid reputation in the quality control arena in recent years. I've read of receivers having scope mounting grooves out of spec and also of a second receiver issue which escapes me at the moment. Additionally, some of Springfield's cast parts seem to be junk...breaking rather frequently and requiring the owner to make multiple use of their (albeit excellent) warranty.

Both Fulton Armory and Ron Smith (Smith Enterprises) think highly of the Chinese receivers. Opinions such as those are good enough for me.

By the way...if you decide not to purchase a $500 Chinese M14 with a USGI bolt kindly send me a PM and I will. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

HEUER
07-08-2005, 11:49 PM
Tony, you sound like a reasonable guy. In the same book let's here what Ron Smith of Smith Enterprises has to say on the subject, I mean you do value his opinion: http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Recently, several custom services have offered heat treating and rehardening services for Polly Tech receivers. One such company is Smith Enterprises of Tempe, Arizona. The owner, Ron Smith, is a fourth-generation armor and was trained in ordinance manufacturing and metallurgy. He has studied the metalurgic properties of the Chinese receivers and bolts and found them to be made of ordanance grade steel, if somewhat softer than American-made bolts and receivers. Accordingly, he has developed a double heat treating method to harden receivers and bolts and as this was written, has performed over 2000 such heat treat operations.

Mr. Smith has found that the Chinese bolt, as received, measure about 40 on the rockwell C scale while the receivers measure between 45 and 50. After the reheat treatment, bolts and receivers approach to harden his figures of American-made bolts and receivers. In addition to heat treating, Smith Enterprises can remachine the Chinese receivers to except American-made bolts. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

- Joe Poyer "The M14 Type Rifle" North Cape Pub INC 2000

BTW I have never had any failure with my SA in five years.

TonyNorCal
07-09-2005, 1:18 AM
Ah, ok. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Well, I will take Ron Smith's word over Springfield's.

From Ron Smith's website...notice he also mentions some Springfield receivers can be soft and in need of heat treatment. And the Chinese receivers vary.
----------
SPRINGFIELD ARMORY A good cast receiver, we don't have to do much reworking to ensure proper operation and unless requested, we do not rework the receiver to our standard. We have come across some receivers that were a little soft. Our heat treatment is very beneficial.


CHINESE Good Billet receivers (there is no real difference between Poly Technologies and Norinco). The receivers do vary in hardness, in 1999, we experienced receivers ranging from 41Rc to 60Rc, Mil. Spec. is 49Rc to 56Rc. After we rework the receiver to accept USGI bolts, we generally have very little work to obtain good lug contact. We do perform our special modifications and recommend heat treatment when necessary.
-----------------------------------

And below is a barrel comparison...evidently the Chinese barrel aren't so bad (as per Ron)

-----------------------------------
USGI or U.S. Several USGI and commercial makers are available. USGI barrels have Chrome lined barrels and can provide very good accuracy. Most commercial barrels are not chrome lined and are going to be of match grade. Barrel accuracy can vary and it does not matter who the maker is. If the barrel is bad it is just bad.

CHINESE Equivalent to USGI barrels. There are two metric threads on the barrel, one for the "Gas Cylinder Lock" and one for the "Castle Nut". The Castle Nut threads are very close to U.S. threads and can be converted, but the Gas Cylinder Lock threads are too fine. We have Clients getting 1" groups with these barrels. They are generally very good barrels, but like U.S. barrels, you can get a lemon.

TonyNorCal
07-09-2005, 1:23 AM
From a review posted on Fulton Armory's website, re: Chinese Receivers

B. Metallurgy. I have never heard of a first hand or published report of a receiver failing metallurgically after an upgrade has been performed and non-defective factory ammunition was used. Chinese receivers surprisingly enough, are forged, not casted. This is a more expensive and labour consuming technique. I find this to be a plus, seeing the fact that the original M14 receivers were forged also. The Springfield and Armscorp receivers are milled from castings.

In regards to the usage of non-factory ammunition, it has been made known to me by Gary Jeter of the VA State Rifle team that,

"We recently cracked several Springfield M14 receivers. Heavy loads with 190 grain bullets were suspect, as the receiver cracked where the bolt strikes the receiver at its most rearward movement."

So, if you decide to use hand-loads there is a possibility of a metallurgic failure with the Polytech/Norinco receiver. But then again, anything is possible. It's just that using factory ammunition allows for liability (can we say "LAWYERS," kids?).

Another side note here: Quoting from another Rec.gunner, John Kepler:

"I have a highly unofficial assay of the metal in a Norinco, done by the DCM. The metal is a 5100 series chromium steel. This is an EXCELLENT receiver metal, though traditionally, not used that much in the US due to it's harder machineability."

HEUER
07-09-2005, 12:47 PM
Tony, please note that in the article Fulton clearly states that they are not aware of any failures AFTER their heat treatment.

Please also note that there have been several generations and companies that produced the M1A. The first M1A was produced by Elmer Ballance of the L.H. Gun Company in Devine, Texas in Septemeber 1971. In 1968 Mr. Balance acquired the name the "Springfield Armory". In 1974 the company was sold and moved to Geneseo Illinois. In 1994 Springfield Armory Inc was forced to declare bankruptcy. The company that we know today as Springfield Armory is really Springfield Inc. The recievers produced from 1994 are considered to be a solid product. the standard models produced from 96 to 2001 with GI chrome barrels are known to provide excellent service.

When a company says a "Spring Field Armory" reciever has failed, I sometimes suspect that it is a rifle produced in the early 80's as the quality of these rifles is reported to be not as good as what is being produced now.

I have seen all the above cut and paste information previously, and most of it can be found on Different's M1A/M14 site.

As far as the "Springfield M14" is concerned I suspect that was just a poor re-weld job of the real deal, even though the crack appeared in the rear and not on the mid section of the reciever. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Blue
07-09-2005, 5:42 PM
http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=93&t=283350 (http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=93&t=283350)

TonyM
07-09-2005, 10:44 PM
Originally posted by Tony:

As mentioned above, current issue Springfield M1As do not have USGI parts (although I recently heard of a new one that did...but I think it's rare now).

Actually, my M1A Socom produced in January 2005 has USGI parts on it. I got a USGI Bolt and Trigger group. Another friend got the same setup.

I know that they are out of Chrome barrels, but honestly, I think they are "running low" on other parts, however, many of the rifles being built today are with USGI parts. I had received a response from Different on another board where he concluded that the whole "They are out of parts" seems to be fodder to raise the prices of USGI parts on the market even higher.

esskay
07-10-2005, 3:56 AM
Originally posted by TonyM:
Actually, my M1A Socom produced in January 2005 has USGI parts on it. I got a USGI Bolt and Trigger group. Another friend got the same setup.


Yeah, my SOCOM has USGI trigger group and op rod. This was actually one reason I intentionally bought mine used--so that I could confirm which types of parts it had (not to mention it was cheaper too!).

HEUER
07-10-2005, 11:23 AM
Esskay TontM /what manufacture made your bolt?

TonyNorCal
07-10-2005, 2:50 PM
I also posted this below in the for sale section...if you're looking for a new Springfield this seems like a good deal...$1145, new in box, 2 10 rounds mags, and all ready for Kali.

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/semi4sale.cgi?read=115014

esskay
07-10-2005, 5:28 PM
Originally posted by heuer:
Esskay TontM /what manufacture made your bolt?

The bolt in my SOCOM is commercial SA, but the extractor was replaced with a USGI part.

I bought a TRW bolt to go with the other TRW parts on the rifle, but I don't have headspacing gauges to check the installation... http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

TonyNorCal
07-13-2005, 6:04 PM
Originally posted by heuer:
Tony, please note that in the article Fulton clearly states that they are not aware of any failures AFTER their heat treatment.

Please also note that there have been several generations and companies that produced the M1A. The first M1A was produced by Elmer Ballance of the L.H. Gun Company in Devine, Texas in Septemeber 1971. In 1968 Mr. Balance acquired the name the "Springfield Armory". In 1974 the company was sold and moved to Geneseo Illinois. In 1994 Springfield Armory Inc was forced to declare bankruptcy. The company that we know today as Springfield Armory is really Springfield Inc. The recievers produced from 1994 are considered to be a solid product. the standard models produced from 96 to 2001 with GI chrome barrels are known to provide excellent service.

When a company says a "Spring Field Armory" reciever has failed, I sometimes suspect that it is a rifle produced in the early 80's as the quality of these rifles is reported to be not as good as what is being produced now.

I have seen all the above cut and paste information previously, and most of it can be found on Different's M1A/M14 site.

As far as the "Springfield M14" is concerned I suspect that was just a poor re-weld job of the real deal, even though the crack appeared in the rear and not on the mid section of the reciever. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Point taken. Seems the consensus is that the Chinese receivers are fine receivers, BUT, that as issues their hardness may vary. I am going to post on the M-14 forum to ask more about this. However, yes, both Smith Enterprises and Fulton make reference to heat treating Chinese receivers. I am not an M-14 expert...but my personal opinion is that I would rather have a forged (provided it is in fact solid and strong) receiver over a cast. My Chinese M14, which I recently took possesion of (yay! http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) cost me $650. Even with heat treatment and a USGI bolt added it will clock in at lower than most any used Springfield...never mind a new one! I think paying the $1400 or so that new Springfields seem to cost is nuts. Even if you don't want a Chinese rifle you can easily get a lightly used Sprinfield with USGI parts for less. I would take a Chinese with a heat-treated, forged receiver, USGI bolt, and a chrome lined barrel over a new Springfield with SA Inc parts and a non-chrome lining.

I wasn't aware some new Springfields are again coming with USGI parts. I called them a few months back and was told the they ran out the USGI barrels a few years ago lol. Perhaps they found a few under all the broken cast parts they replace with their excellent lifetime warranty http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

I am curious about the strength of Chinese forging and I'm going to ask over at the M-14 forum and see what they say.

HEUER
07-13-2005, 6:29 PM
I am still waiting for my buddy to set up a time when I can inspect the Poly. I understand that the faux supressor on some Poly's are welded in place http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif. As far as what they say on the m-14 forum it is a mixed bag. Some say good, some say bad. Heat treatment is good for Poly's, but by the time you swap the GI bolt, have a gunsmith check headspacing, heat treat the reciever, and possibly replace the op rod your in the same boat. I have a standard with a chrome lined barrel and I wish they had not stopped. Poly geometry is suppossed to be very good, but if something happens, mainland China will not repair it for you.

esskay
07-13-2005, 7:35 PM
Originally posted by Tony:
I wasn't aware some new Springfields are again coming with USGI parts. I called them a few months back and was told the they ran out the USGI barrels a few years ago lol. Perhaps they found a few under all the broken cast parts they replace with their excellent lifetime warranty http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.


To be clear, I haven't heard many (if any!) reports of USGI barrels coming in new SA rifles... just some USGI parts (e.g. bolts, trigger groups, op rods).

TonyM
07-13-2005, 8:09 PM
Originally posted by esskay:
To be clear, I haven't heard many (if any!) reports of USGI barrels coming in new SA rifles... just some USGI parts (e.g. bolts, trigger groups, op rods).

Same here.

TonyNorCal
07-14-2005, 4:03 PM
I called Springfield Armory today and asked about the USGI stuff. I was told again that they have not issued rifles with USGI barrels since late 2002/early 2003.

The gentleman said that it's likely someone getting a rifle with a USGI barrel bought one that has been sitting on the dealer's shelf (or in a warehouse for some time).

He did say that some have other USGI parts (mentioned in the previous two posts).

However, this is a real crapshoot...I think most recent issue M1As are SA Inc. parts.

I still think the best bet is an older, slightly used one. Cheaper you can find em USGI-equipped.

TonyNorCal
07-14-2005, 4:11 PM
Here's an article from Walt of Fulton Armory in which he is of the opinion that heat treating is not necessary for Chicom receivers. He has high praise indeed...although as you'll see...he suggests other work must be done to the rifles. I just think it's interesting that there are divergent opions. Ron Smith told me I could keep the Chinese barrel...something that Walt evidently feels differently about. (Bold sections are my highlights).

-------------------------------------
Chinese M14S Receivers (Polytech and Norinco): The Lowdown

Chinese receivers are the best thing this side of the USGI M14. They are dimensionally perfect, particularly in the area of the bolt lug recesses—something that most commercial receiver manufacturers can't seem to get right. The Chinese receivers are forged, as John Garand intended that the M14 receiver be made. We've never seen a cracked Chinese receiver.
However, the balance of the rifle is suspect, to say the least.

Here’s the full story.

The Chinese bolt is unconscionably soft and must be replaced by a USGI bolt. If the bolt is not replaced, the bolt lugs collapse within a few hundred rounds, leading to dangerously excessive headspace. The barrel/bolt/receiver relationship in the Chinese rifles is, for whatever reason, not the same the relationship found in USGI or even US commercial receivers. For a USGI bolt to close in a Chinese receiver, the receiver must be relieved in front of the bolt lugs. This is the only really good way to fit a USGI bolt.

Some folks mistakenly grind the front of the bolt lugs—which screws up the bolt stop interface, inter alia—or try to get the needed clearance by lapping the bolt—which makes the case hardened layer on the rear of the lugs perilously thin. Further, when you attempt to fit the bolt by removing material from the rear of the lugs, you create a great deal of slop—sometimes called “free headspace”—when the bolt is closed. This “slop” can result in an unsupported case head and blown-up rifle.

You must install a USGI bolt, and you must properly fit it.
With a USGI bolt properly fitted, its bolt face now intrudes into the breech of the barrel so far that headspace becomes dangerously short. Since the Chinese barrel is chrome-lined, the chamber cannot be deepened to achieve proper headspace. Thus, a US barrel needs to be installed so that it can be finish-reamed to the proper headspace.

Now, the gas system. The gas system parts are not compatible with USGI gas system parts. Further, the gas cylinder is not stainless steel as is the USGI gas cylinder. The threads on the Chinese barrel for the Chinese bolt lock differ from the threads on the GI bolt lock, which is another good reason for installing a US-spec barrel. Not only are the Chinese gas system parts not compatible with GI parts, they’re not compatible with each other! That is, two different rifles will have hand-fitted gas pistons, for example. So even if one were willing to put up with the Chinese gas cylinder’s tendency to rust internally, there’s no way to support the system. You can’t get parts. So a USGI gas system must be installed.

The trigger housing is generally good, as are the safety, mag catch & hammer spring assembly, but the trigger/sear and hammer are soft as butter. They must be replaced. The bolt stops are also soft, the cartridge clip guides a mess, and the rear sight assemblies are purely hopeless.

While the op rods can be OK, they do tend to roll out and eventually mess up the cam track in the op rod hump. Most should be replaced with a GI op rod.

The stocks are an unattractive “mystery wood.”

But What About Heat Treating?

Lack of proper hardness is not the only problem with the Chinese bolts. Nearly all (if not all) of the Chinese bolts we have seen—and we have worked on many hundreds of Chinese rifles since their importation began—are too long for proper firing pin retraction. This dimensional "long-coming" is enough to deadline Chinese bolts all by itself. Further, the bolt lugs are not properly shaped to evenly and fully seat in the bolt lug recesses. Heat-treating, even if it could be properly done, would not correct these dimensional flaws.

While the receiver is not quite as hard as that of a USGI M14 receiver, the Chinese receiver's hardness has been empirically determined to be more than sufficient. We've never seen a worn Chinese receiver, even those that have had tens of thousands of rounds through them. Heat-treating is simply not needed.

The Conclusion

When the whole package is considered, we at Fulton Armory strip down to the receiver and start from there. The result is the finest M14-type rifle this side of USGI. However, it’s tough for owners to reconceptualize their “Chinese Rifle” as what it really is, a “Chinese Receiver.”

HEUER
07-14-2005, 4:34 PM
The vast majority of poly wood stocks are crap. There mase out of a wood (I think pronounced CHU-LAK) and are usually replaced with either GI synthetic or BOYD's Walnut. I have a 5 year old SA INC Standard that I bought new, and you can dress up a Poly all you want,my SA INC is just fine without any headaches,not to mention it is very accurate. SA INC produces thousands of rifles every year without any problems or any malfunctions, I know I own two. I sleep well at night knowing that I support an american company producing a fine american product with a life time warranty. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I am proud that my reciver is marked US RIFLE M1A SPRINGFIELD ARMORY. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

TonyNorCal
07-14-2005, 4:59 PM
Originally posted by heuer:
The vast majority of poly wood stocks are crap. There mase out of a wood (I think pronounced CHU-LAK) and are usually replaced with either GI synthetic or BOYD's Walnut. I have a 5 year old SA INC Standard that I bought new, and you can dress up a Poly all you want,my SA INC is just fine without any headaches,not to mention it is very accurate. SA INC produces thousands of rifles every year without any problems or any malfunctions, I know I own two. I sleep well at night knowing that I support an american company producing a fine american product with a life time warranty. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I am proud that my reciver is marked US RIFLE M1A SPRINGFIELD ARMORY. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Yes sir, made in the USA does mean something and supporting US businesses also means something http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. Ron Smith will likely be getting some of my money. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

And I also agree, a lifetime warranty is nothing to sneeze at. And the vast majority of people report SA Inc service is excellent.

And...The People's Liberation Army isn't going to service any parts on my rifle.
http://www.calguns.net/laughroll.gif

HEUER
07-14-2005, 5:05 PM
Cheers! I emailed John Moe a Dealer Service Representative at Springfield Armory. I wanted to know if they are going to offer barreled actions, he said no. That would have been a nice spring project. Smith forged are considered by many to be the best ever made.

icormba
07-14-2005, 5:35 PM
I could be wrong... but aren't the M1A Springfield receivers made in Australia or Brazil or something like that? or is that just their Garand and 1911 receivers?

Not that there is anything wrong with that... I would really like an M1A & a SA 1911.

HEUER
07-14-2005, 7:31 PM
M1A Recievers (since 2000 at least) are cast in Illinois. I cannot speak for the Garand and the 1911. With all the talk about the M1A on this thread I am sure that someone would have stated that fact. I suspect that they are still cast in Illinois.

HEUER
07-14-2005, 7:45 PM
Originally posted by heuer:
M1A Recievers (since 2000 at least) are cast in Illinois. I cannot speak for the Garand and the 1911. With all the talk about the M1A on this thread I am sure that someone would have stated that fact. I suspect that they are still cast in Illinois.

It seems the raw castings for the 1911's start there. Don't own one never researched into purchasing one. My guides make no mention of M1A's recievers being produced outside of the United States, only in Texas and Illinois.

Copy and Paste from the web:

Bob Frabrizio’s SHOT Show shopping strategy may not sound very adventurous, but his marketing tactics make solid sense. He and Joseph Cohen represent Ace Systems, of Jackson, S.C.

“Sure, I look at all the new guns and gear,” said Frabrizio. “But you’ve got to stick with proven performers you can sell to a broad spectrum of shooters.”


According to Frabrizio, carrying the base models of popular firearms not only sells those guns, but also prompts customers to order models with “all the bells and whistles.”


“This applies to 1911s and Ruger 10-22s,” Frabrizio said. “They’ll always sell. But my ‘dealers’ pick’ would have to be Springfield Armory’s M1A rifle. It’s mil-spec and made entirely in the USA, which are great selling points. It’s a historic piece with a great combat history and it’s an accurate, reliable modern shooter. It’s a competition rifle, plinker, hunter and defense weapon. You can’t beat that kind of versatility for sales.”


Frabrizio and Cohen recommend stocking Springfield’s lower-cost, blued-steel model with a plain walnut stock. Let customers see the quality, feel the heft and then if they’re interested, recommend all the available upgrades.

HEUER
07-14-2005, 10:08 PM
From Different's site:

The last complete finished M1A receiver made at Valley Ordnance Co., serial number 097726 (zero nine seven seven two six), was shipped to Springfield Armory, Inc. on May 16, 1996. Operations were shut down and the production equipment shipped to Springfield Armory, Inc. in Geneseo, IL on July 22, 1996. Employees from Valley Ordnance and Hillside Manufacturing went to Geneseo, IL to assist in setting up the newly acquired machine tools. This was a very thorough transition taking between four to six weeks which included instruction by the Hillside Manufacturing and Valley Ordnance personnel on all machining operations. Springfield Armory, Inc. graciously offered positions to employees from Valley Ordnance and Hillside Manufacturing with competitive wages as part of the transition. As of 2004, the M1A receivers are still machined at Springfield Armory, Inc. in Geneseo, IL in the same manner as was performed at Hillside Manufacturing and Valley Ordnance. \par