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DirtSailor
06-23-2009, 6:15 PM
I tried the search, but couldn't find anything on this.

I'm looking to pick up a couple of holsters (an IWB & OWB) for my Springfield 1911-A1. I have seen very few with thumb breaks. Is it safe to carry a 1911 cocked & locked (condition 1) without a strap between the hammer & the slide? I know that even if I bumped the safety off somehow, it would be nearly impossible for the gun to fire without the grip safety being pressed; but what are some of the opinions on carrying with/without a thumb break strap?

I'm not really worried about retention. I have several holsters for other pistols that don't have retention straps across the top and have never had problems with them.

ojisan
06-23-2009, 7:09 PM
It adds to the safety of the carry and keeping the gun in it's place.
I like 'em.

leelaw
06-23-2009, 7:17 PM
Get a SERPA from Blackhawk!. They're fine holsters, and 1911s don't need a strap between the hammer and the slide.

H2H
06-23-2009, 7:17 PM
safariland makes some

Miltiades
06-24-2009, 3:33 AM
For 1911 OWB, I have used a Kramer horsehide belt scabbard. Horsehide is a thin but stiff leather that holds the gun firmly in position. I don't like retaining straps on a holster unless you're going to be riding a horse or something athletic. Here are a couple of my 1911s in Kramer belt scabbards.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/pogo2/KimberProCDP62.jpg

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/pogo2/ColtDefender42.jpg

M. D. Van Norman
06-24-2009, 7:39 AM
Itís extremely unlikely that the hammer would fall in an open-top holster, but itís not impossible. If the 1911-style pistol (designed as a military weapon) is to be pressed into a defensive role, then I think that the added safety of a strap is desirable. However, Iím sure that Iím in the minority on this.

Bird of Fire
06-24-2009, 7:57 AM
If the gun is well kept then you're fine.

The safety has to be off.
Then the grip safety has to be depressed.
THEN the trigger has to be pulled.

If the gun is safely tucked away in a holster with the trigger guarded, how can it just "go off"? Have you ever detail stripped a 1911 to see for yourself how the parts intersect and work in unison? It might give you peace of mind. Even *if* the remote chance that the hammer slipped off the sear hook, it would more likely than not fall to half cock on the hammer notch. You could probably (unloaded obviously ;) ) take a pipe wrench to a cocked and unlocked 1911 hammer and all you would do is gouge the bejesus out of it.

Why this gun? Nobody thinks twice about a revolver, or a glock, or an xd with a round in the chamber ready to go.

Bird of Fire
06-24-2009, 7:58 AM
Oh and I carry mine in a blackhawk serpa. I perform a quick safety function check to ensure my thumb and grip safety are working as they should, chamber a round, safety on, plop it in and think nothing of it. :)

Joliet
06-24-2009, 8:11 AM
I agree with Miltiades that horsehide is great. I have been dealing with AKJ Concealco for years. Excellent service and products.
http://www.greatholsters.com/

I am not concerned with carrying a modern 1911 type firearm in "condition 1" or "cocked and locked" without a strap under the hammer. With a proper holster I don't feel it is needed and prefer not to have the strap. Ken

JTROKS
06-24-2009, 8:15 AM
I agree with Leelaw and Bird of Fire, it's perfectly safe. If you're going to keep the gun in the holster for long periods I suggest against suede unless you wipe down the gun with an oily rag a couple of times a week. Nothing against suede, but when it gets a bit of moisture care must be taken specially if your gun is in blue. Same for everything else, but materials dries faster and doesn't attract moisture as much.

Mac Attack
06-24-2009, 9:45 AM
No need for a strap as the redundant safetied on your 1911. I carry a 1911 and back when I had a ambi safety I have found my thumb safety snapped off due to the sweat shield on my holster due to movement. I removed my ambi safety and no longer have this problem.

Do yourself a favor and buy a quality custom made holster. I started with off the shelf holsters and went through many holsters. Some didn't balance well, some didn't secure my 1911 well, some caused wear on the slide, some caused my safety to flip off...etc. I invested several hundred into these holsters. I then purchased a Milt Sparks VMII and found it to be the best holster. I wish I would have just purchased one from the get go and saved all the money on the off the shelf holsters.

Recommendations:
IWB Milt sparks VMII
OWB Lou Alessi CQC/S

Buying aftermarket and you pay a premium or if you have time directly from the maker.

Army
06-24-2009, 10:21 AM
+10 on the Serpa. Once locked in....it ain't coming out unless you want it to.

I carry mine in Condition 3 with zero worries.

Knauga
06-24-2009, 10:23 AM
I carry my 1911 in an open top Milt Sparks holster. No issues.

Kramer makes great holsters too, I have a couple for my Ruger GP100.

M. D. Van Norman
06-24-2009, 11:54 AM
Nobody thinks twice about a revolver Ö with a round in the chamber ready to go.

But we could turn it around. Would you carry a cocked revolver?

Bird of Fire
06-24-2009, 12:07 PM
But we could turn it around. Would you carry a cocked revolver?

Does the revolver have a grip safety blocking the trigger from moving, as well as a thumb safety that blocks the sear from any movement?

Then yes.

In all honesty I was hesitant to carry my 1911 cocked and locked at all when I first bought it. After spending some quality time with it and a few detail strips, you can plainly see nothing can happen. It's simply being unfamiliar with the device IMO.

M. D. Van Norman
06-24-2009, 1:33 PM
At least youíre consistent. :D

As I mentioned earlier, the cocked-and-locked 1911 is extremely safe. Itís just not 100-percent safe when compared to a double-action handgun or even to a safe-action pistol.

Then there is the issue of retention in the holster, but that wasnít the original question.

Bird of Fire
06-24-2009, 1:44 PM
At least you’re consistent. :D

As I mentioned earlier, the cocked-and-locked 1911 is extremely safe. It’s just not 100-percent safe when compared to a double-action handgun or even to a safe-action pistol.

Then there is the issue of retention in the holster, but that wasn’t the original question.

:D

I would agree on the double action handgun (traditional da/sa like a 92fs) almost. One of the stickied threads up above in this forum is the walther ppk & ppk/s recall which was done to prevent the pistol from firing when the decocker is applied with the hammer cocked. The possibility of an AD is still possible in that regard, albeit VERY very slim. I feel the same about the 1911 if the trigger & ignition group wasn't monkeyed with and made unsafe.

Just MHO. :)

M. D. Van Norman
06-24-2009, 2:00 PM
Thatís a good point Ö and illustrates why one should decock in a safe direction.


That sounds so wrong! :eek:

DirtSailor
06-24-2009, 4:13 PM
Why this gun? Nobody thinks twice about a revolver, or a glock, or an xd with a round in the chamber ready to go.

Good point. I have an XD and S&W hammerless and never thought twice about it. I guess because the hammer is "right there" it becomes more obvious.

DirtSailor
06-24-2009, 4:34 PM
Thanks for the responses, I really appreciate the various points of view. My 1911 does have the ambi safety, so I guess that is something I should pay attention to. Especially when talking to whoever I decide to buy the holster from.

I also appreciate the advice on holster makers. It's always nice to get advice from people who have used them.

Gavin Twosome
06-24-2009, 4:50 PM
I want a Biancchi model 66 FOR MINE !