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View Full Version : can crpa pressure manufacturers add guns to the list?


mdouglas1980
06-23-2009, 10:32 AM
Can the CRPA pressure or suggest handgun models from manufacturers to be submitted to the "list"? I know it is ultimately up the the manufacturer to decide what models to submitt to the DOJ, but perhaps this is a good idea?

wildhawker
06-23-2009, 5:58 PM
Can the CRPA pressure or suggest handgun models from manufacturers to be submitted to the "list"? I know it is ultimately up the the manufacturer to decide what models to submitt to the DOJ, but perhaps this is a good idea?

Why not simply get rid of the roster entirely (http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/pena/Pena-v-Cid-Amended-Complaint.pdf)?

CGF & SAF FTW!

BigDogatPlay
06-23-2009, 7:03 PM
Isn't CRPA, their lobbyists anyway, part of the reason why we have the list?

Just sayin.....

mdouglas1980
06-23-2009, 8:24 PM
well yes a total abolishment of the list would be nice, but I was just kinda thinking out loud.

wildhawker
06-24-2009, 7:15 AM
Isn't CRPA, their lobbyists anyway, part of the reason why we have the list?

Just sayin.....

Thank CAFR/Kathy Lynch, who was closely tied (ahem) with CRPA's retiring lobbyist.

wildhawker
06-24-2009, 7:17 AM
well yes a total abolishment of the list would be nice, but I was just kinda thinking out loud.

Glad you were thinking out loud, that's why we're all here- just wanted to point out where this issue is allready being worked on from a more global perspective.

mdouglas1980
06-24-2009, 11:27 AM
yes down with the list!

scr83jp
06-24-2009, 11:45 AM
Can the CRPA pressure or suggest handgun models from manufacturers to be submitted to the "list"? I know it is ultimately up the the manufacturer to decide what models to submitt to the DOJ, but perhaps this is a good idea?The fees manufacturers have to pay for approval every year is outlandish.TC Encores handguns disappeared from CA sporting goods stores when TC was informed they had to pay for testing of every single barrel combination even though the receiver was the exact same model .Senator Duttons' bill finally changed that ruling and now these single shots are available.

scr83jp
06-24-2009, 11:54 AM
Can the CRPA pressure or suggest handgun models from manufacturers to be submitted to the "list"? I know it is ultimately up the the manufacturer to decide what models to submitt to the DOJ, but perhaps this is a good idea?Check on the certification fees manufacturers have to pay on every single gun & the recertification testing fees they have to pay for approval every year it is outlandish!Many firearms manufacturers have decided it isn't profitable to sell in Calif. That's why models of common handguns disappear from the approved listings.TC Encore handguns disappeared from CA sporting goods stores when TC was informed they had to pay for testing of every single barrel combination even though the receiver was the exact same model .Senator Duttons' bill finally changed that ruling and now since these single shots on available.

mdouglas1980
06-24-2009, 1:28 PM
yes I know about the initial "testing and submitting fees" and I know that they're in the thousands of dollars. Yes I know that you have to pay to keep it on the list every year. My question was that if anyone knew that CRPA "could" do this. I know there is a case being worked on for the "abolishment" of our list, with the supreme court ruling for DC. I was just asking if the CRPA could lobby for models. thanks anyways though :D

ke6guj
06-24-2009, 1:35 PM
My question was that if anyone knew that CRPA "could" do this. I know there is a case being worked on for the "abolishment" of our list, with the supreme court ruling for DC. I was just asking if the CRPA could lobby for models. thanks anyways though :D

sure they could. Just like any individual could lobby, say Kimber, to submit a particular model for testing. Yes, hearing it from CRPA may have more weight than just hearing it from Joe Blow. The more important question is, Will they?

mdouglas1980
06-24-2009, 1:41 PM
sure they could. Just like any individual could lobby, say Kimber, to submit a particular model for testing. Yes, hearing it from CRPA may have more weight than just hearing it from Joe Blow. The more important question is, Will they?

A very good question :thumbsup:

scr83jp
06-25-2009, 9:01 AM
yes I know about the initial "testing and submitting fees" and I know that they're in the thousands of dollars. Yes I know that you have to pay to keep it on the list every year. My question was that if anyone knew that CRPA "could" do this. I know there is a case being worked on for the "abolishment" of our list, with the supreme court ruling for DC. I was just asking if the CRPA could lobby for models. thanks anyways though :DMany companies don't want the ca shuffle because they can sell elsewhere w/o the hassels.I was in Pa in nov & dec last year, walk in to a sporting goods store pick your handgun give your DL to the clerk,pay your money and out the door with your handgun.

rweller
06-29-2009, 8:37 PM
yes I know about the initial "testing and submitting fees" and I know that they're in the thousands of dollars. Yes I know that you have to pay to keep it on the list every year. My question was that if anyone knew that CRPA "could" do this. I know there is a case being worked on for the "abolishment" of our list, with the supreme court ruling for DC. I was just asking if the CRPA could lobby for models. thanks anyways though :D

The CRPA could lobby for models, but I don't think it will do any good. The manufacturer is required to submit models for testing and pay the fees. I don't think manufacturers would appreciate a third party trying to submit units for approval on their behalf. Number two, CRPA is not a manufacturer, so getting the samples shipped to California, specifically the CRPA offices or a licensed firearms dealer for submittal is probably not a plan they are willing to comply with, especially since it is most likely illegal for them to ship the models to California other than to the DOJ for approval.

The unfortunate problem is I would lobby to put the Ruger Blackhawk in for approval, but it won't pass because it doesn't meet safety requirements specified. A lot of firearms can't meet the basics of the law, regardless of how dumb it may be.

I think in some cases the manufacturer won't submit certain models simply because they are relatively low volume sellers and it doesn't warrant the cost to get them through the process.

I do know CRPA has been quite vocal on legislation that eases the requirements, different barrel lengths etc, but that doesn't seem to be gaining traction in the Democratically controlled legislature.

Again, we all know what the ultimate answer is in California. Get rid of Democrats in Sacramento. If Obama continues on his current course, maybe we have a shot at turning it around, despite the ineptness of the Republican party in California. But, this is California, a whole other country.

Ralph

hoffmang
06-29-2009, 9:13 PM
Do know that Calguns Foundation is working actively to have the whole rostering requirement overturned in California. See Peņa v Cid (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Pena_v_Cid).

-Gene

ke6guj
06-29-2009, 9:30 PM
The CRPA could lobby for models, but I don't think it will do any good. The manufacturer is required to submit models for testing and pay the fees. I don't think manufacturers would appreciate a third party trying to submit units for approval on their behalf. Number two, CRPA is not a manufacturer, so getting the samples shipped to California, specifically the CRPA offices or a licensed firearms dealer for submittal is probably not a plan they are willing to comply with, especially since it is most likely illegal for them to ship the models to California other than to the DOJ for approval. we weren't saying that CRPA would be submitting models for testing, but could possibly poll members for what models they would purchase if they were Rostered. CRPA could then go to the manufacturer with that info and say, "250 of our members have stated that they would be interested in purchasing your XYZ model, if it were available in CA." That info could possibly entice a manufacturer to submit a specific model for testing that it might not have.

The unfortunate problem is I would lobby to put the Ruger Blackhawk in for approval, but it won't pass because it doesn't meet safety requirements specified. A lot of firearms can't meet the basics of the law, regardless of how dumb it may be.Why couldn't the Blackhawk pass the safety requirements? No need for an LCI or mag disconnect. It would only need to pass the drop test and the reliabiltiy test AFAIK. I'd assume that with the transfer bar safety, it would be able to pass the drop test.

moot point for the Blackhawk anyways since I think they are all Roster-exempt, but other single-action revolvers with short barrels do have to be Rostered, such as the NAA minis.

I think in some cases the manufacturer won't submit certain models simply because they are relatively low volume sellers and it doesn't warrant the cost to get them through the process.Correct, but if CRPA could document a CA market, they might.

I do know CRPA has been quite vocal on legislation that eases the requirements, different barrel lengths etc, but that doesn't seem to be gaining traction in the Democratically controlled legislature.

Again, we all know what the ultimate answer is in California. Get rid of Democrats in Sacramento. If Obama continues on his current course, maybe we have a shot at turning it around, despite the ineptness of the Republican party in California. But, this is California, a whole other country.

Ralphtrue. Best thing is for the Roster to go bye-bye entirely.

mdouglas1980
07-09-2009, 11:29 AM
hopefully the list will soon be a thing of the past, and we will once again be able to get what we want.