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View Full Version : Who uses Wolf in their higher end 1911?


BlackDrop50
06-23-2009, 9:02 AM
Ammo prices and availability are that bad, thinking about wolf in my Kimber Raptor but worried about the steel cases. Who here uses it and does it have any ill effects or is it just dirty and damaging?

Suvorov
06-23-2009, 10:11 AM
I know that it isn't as quite the same, but I have shot hundreds of rounds of Blazer Aluminum through my Kimber Custom Target and have had no issues at all.

CAG23
06-23-2009, 10:25 AM
I'm in the same boat...I recently got 500 rounds of wolf for my kimber but I'm a little hesitant. I have shot it out of my glock and I did notice it was slightly dirtier but only where the firing pin is. I have read so many mixed reviews on the subject. Some say its ok some say not to. The ones that say they wouldn't say they would never so its hard to decide to do it or not…the ones that say its ok say that they notice that it is a little dirtier but have put thousands of rounds through their limbers with no ill effect. I think I will try some of the wolf I have for mine but dunno of I should wait till I break it in.

chickenfried
06-23-2009, 10:34 AM
If it was a deal I'd shoot wolf in my kimber. I have in the past, the only thing I didn't like was the smell. But usually the price is close enough that I'd rather buy wwb or similar. A lot of the criticism of wolf, at least with the handgun ammo, is from people with no direct experience parroting the wolf is bad mantra.

FS00008
06-23-2009, 10:35 AM
No problems here. I never understood why people badmouth wolf so much. Just don't use it in an AR and you're fine...

Greg-Dawg
06-23-2009, 10:48 AM
Wolf is good, but you'll need to find a range that will allow it.

demo
06-23-2009, 10:54 AM
I would expect the steel cases to be harder on extractors and ejectors. brass is soft, steel is hard. if you look at your spent brass you'll see marks and digs on the rim of the brass from your extractor and ejector.

hybridatsun350
06-23-2009, 11:03 AM
I've been buying a lot of Wolf 9mm lately because brass cased stuff just simply doesn't exist anymore. I've always used only brass cased in all of my firearms (excluding AK's), but now I'm just buying what I can find! Having said that, I have experienced no problems with it in any of my guns. Most of it has been going through my Glock 34, but we all know that Glocks will eat anything so maybe that's a bad example.

I would expect the steel cases to be harder on extractors and ejectors. brass is soft, steel is hard. if you look at your spent brass you'll see marks and digs on the rim of the brass from your extractor and ejector.

The steel used to make shell casings is pretty soft stuff. I'm not saying that it wont wear on the gun because brass cases wear on the gun, but it's not as bad as people think it is.

Saigon1965
06-23-2009, 11:03 AM
Really - Because of the casing materials?

Wolf is good, but you'll need to find a range that will allow it.

Pistolwhipped
06-23-2009, 11:04 AM
Steel is going to be harder on you pistol then brass but nothing that I would worry about. Wolf is good ammo and I have never had any problems with it in a pistol.

CAG23
06-23-2009, 11:14 AM
I guess I have to admit...the only reason I got as much wolf as I did was because it was all I could find and it was 16.50 for a box

CHS
06-23-2009, 11:36 AM
No problems here. I never understood why people badmouth wolf so much.


Why on earth do you say this ^^^


Just don't use it in an AR and you're fine...

And then this ^^^ ?




Wolf is fine. Period. AR's, Handguns, whatever. It's very soft mild steel and will not cause any undo wear. The only downside is that it tends to be very dirty which means cleaning more often. Big deal.

BlackDrop50
06-23-2009, 12:08 PM
Hmm, I may pick some up but I think I'll hold off til the next gun show before deciding. If the difference is only a few bucks I will get brass. These aren't for the range but for some extreme shooting at steel and paper in the desert so I will be blasting off a lot of rounds rapidly.

Black Majik
06-23-2009, 12:11 PM
Ah how times have changed. It used to be "Don't use wolf, that stuff will blow up your gun or break an extractor to your gun is a piece of crap if it wont run on wolf."

CHS
06-23-2009, 12:28 PM
Ah how times have changed. It used to be "Don't use wolf, that stuff will blow up your gun or break an extractor to your gun is a piece of crap if it wont run on wolf."

In the early days of Wolf ammo, I wouldn't touch the stuff. It was all re-boxed old Russian surplus ammo and I saw many many many issues with the stuff. Case-head separations, case ruptures, etc.

However, now it's all new-manufactured and tends to be good reliable stuff. Yeah, it's still steel-cased which a lot of people don't like, but there's nothing inherently wrong with that.

goathead
06-23-2009, 12:30 PM
i have i used it because it was cheap

BunnySlayer
06-23-2009, 1:32 PM
My answer to that used to be absolutely never ever! Now with the shortage it's if that's all I have shoot it. Beats not shooting.

Joey_H
06-23-2009, 1:51 PM
I've had Wolf ammo stick in the chambers of my Walther P5 and my S&W 469. The slide comes back and the shell stays in the chamber. That can't be good. On the other hand Wolf works fine in my revolvers. I have a Ruger Vaquero with two cylinders, one in .38-40 and one in .40 S&W. Wolf .40 shoots great in that gun. And Wolf .45 shoots just fine in my Ruger Convertible Blackhawk. :D

wildhawker
06-23-2009, 2:45 PM
...

I like your new avatar better.

Carry on.

STAGE 2
06-23-2009, 5:49 PM
However, now it's all new-manufactured and tends to be good reliable stuff.


Theres your problem.

CHS
06-23-2009, 6:43 PM
Theres your problem.

Winchester white box "tends" to be good ammo.
Miwall reloads "tend" to be good ammo.
Federal factory "tends" to be good ammo.

There are always exceptions. So what was your point?

plankowner
06-24-2009, 6:19 AM
I used wolf for my glock 23 when I was out in the desert and I had to disassemble my gun to get the stuck case out of it , so from that point I wont use it in my glock anymore or in my kimber, I have an m1 carbine that I was wondering if it would work in that , but I do use it in my mini 14 and my stag

BlackDrop50
06-24-2009, 9:21 AM
Hmm, well it seems wolf isn't all THAT great still. A year or 2 ago before the ammo scare everybody said to stay away from it like the devil. Anyways I never use the stuff except for in my Saiga 7.62

STAGE 2
06-24-2009, 10:52 AM
Winchester white box "tends" to be good ammo.
Miwall reloads "tend" to be good ammo.
Federal factory "tends" to be good ammo.

There are always exceptions. So what was your point?

There are always exceptions, but the question is how often do these exception present themselves. WWB is going to run more reliably in pistols than wolf for a variety of reasons. Wolf isn't cheap because the ex com-bloc countries have a yearning to give us capitalist pigs a discount. Its cheap because they use the cheapest possible components. When you do this, you do so at the expense of reliability and accuracy.

And steel cased ammo does wear parts faster than brass. Nor does it expand the same. Its you gun so you can run what you want. I just dont like people pretending there isn't a difference when there really is because it might give new shooters the wrong idea.

Poohgyrr
06-24-2009, 10:57 AM
The old green lacquored Wolf .40 had extraction & ejection problems in my G24 & G22. Had to use a mallet twice to open the slide to eject the case. Again, this was with the original green lacquor stuff. I haven't used the "new" grey coating Wolf ammo.

chickenfried
06-24-2009, 10:59 AM
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu6.htm
I stay away from the rifle ammo, too many first hand accounts of problems. You can find some examples at the same site.

Lessons learned:
1. Our general opinion as to accuracy is that they were good. Wolf was best, next Winchester White Box, and then Blazer. But all were accurate.

2. All ammo functioned 100%. I had carried this Glock 34 to Thunder Ranch three times, and it has never failed.

3. We have over 80+ years of handloading and make some good handloads. We use a Dillon press. But the factory stuff was slightly better accuracy-wise than our stuff. The difference in price is very small.

Bottom Line: You can't justify handloading at the present low prices of this cheap 9mm ammo.

And even though it is relatively cheap, it is plenty accurate.
When you do this, you do so at the expense of reliability and accuracy.

chickenfried
06-24-2009, 11:03 AM
Wasn't so long ago that wwb at walmart were rounds that got swept off the floor at the factory :p.

Ah how times have changed. It used to be "Don't use wolf, that stuff will blow up your gun or break an extractor to your gun is a piece of crap if it wont run on wolf."

STAGE 2
06-24-2009, 4:12 PM
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu6.htm
I stay away from the rifle ammo, too many first hand accounts of problems. You can find some examples at the same site.

I don't doubt that there are many people who have used wolf with success. There are plenty of people who were happy with their ford pinto. That doesn't make it a good car.

hybridatsun350
06-24-2009, 4:17 PM
I don't doubt that there are many people who have used wolf with success. There are plenty of people who were happy with their ford pinto. That doesn't make it a good car.

Everything you're saying is fine and dandy, but Wolf has one advantage over every other manufacturer... it's available! Many people here would never have thought they would be shooting Wolf (myself included), but I'd much rather shoot Wolf than not shoot anything at all. Also, now that I've shot more of it, I've released that there really wasn't anything wrong with it in the first place. I've had zero issues with it in any weapon. I just don't understand where you're hatred for Wolf comes from. :confused:

Jonathan Doe
06-24-2009, 4:35 PM
The only Wolf I have fired in any of my guns is shotshells and 22 LR ammo. None others. When I get some of them occasionally, I just gave them away.

CSACANNONEER
06-24-2009, 4:43 PM
I would NEVER fire Wolf in my alloy frame Kimber. In fact, the only wolf I will shoot is .22lr, shotshells and 7.62x39 in SKSes and AKs. I'm not including Wolf Gold since it is brass cased, boxer primed and cheaper than other comparable ammo. I will use Wolf Gold in any gun but, I don't expect it to be <moa ammo.

TZL
06-24-2009, 5:01 PM
wolf works fine, if your AR doesn't run on wolf....something is wrong with your AR

older Wolf lacquer needed some cleaning between wolf and brass to prevent stuck cases, newer polymer wolf works just fine !

No problems here. I never understood why people badmouth wolf so much. Just don't use it in an AR and you're fine...

CHS
06-24-2009, 5:09 PM
I love how many people in this thread talk about never using Wolf. except......

You either use Wolf, or you don't.

chickenfried
06-24-2009, 5:14 PM
Just keep on repeating the mantra maybe that'll make it true. What am I even doing in this thread. Screw you guys I'm going to go fondle my Dillon 650 :p.

I don't doubt that there are many people who have used wolf with success. There are plenty of people who were happy with their ford pinto. That doesn't make it a good car.

TZL
06-24-2009, 10:11 PM
the funny thing is that I can never find Wolf handgun ammo....all I usually find it Winchester white box or fionichhi (sp) or really expensive stuff like safety ammo etc....



My answer to that used to be absolutely never ever! Now with the shortage it's if that's all I have shoot it. Beats not shooting.

STAGE 2
06-24-2009, 11:01 PM
wolf works fine, if your AR doesn't run on wolf....something is wrong with your AR

Lets see. A rifle that has tight tolerances, designed for a specific type of ammunition, using a specific type of case, and a specific type of powder shouldn't have any problems using ammo that fits none of these characteristics. Yeah, that makes sense.

If someone said that your car should run perfectly fine on leaded gas you'd call them an idiot. This is no different.

CHS
06-24-2009, 11:48 PM
Lets see. A rifle that has tight tolerances, designed for a specific type of ammunition, using a specific type of case, and a specific type of powder shouldn't have any problems using ammo that fits none of these characteristics. Yeah, that makes sense.


Apparently you don't know much about AR's or 5.56 chambers....

dexter9659
06-24-2009, 11:49 PM
Never a single round.... ever. I only shoot 200gr LSWC. I really dont like shooting ammo that has not been precisely made for a particular gun, and event ie. tactical, PPC, poppers, major/minor ect. While 1911's are all "similar" the exact dimensions are not necessarily the same. Wolf, despite any quality issues that may or may not exist is made like other major manufactures to meet the specs of the caliber allowing them to function in most all firearms. My loads are made to fit my gun. I have tried using my exact loads in other guns, with modest results. If i ever were to run out of handloads... I do not think I would run wolf due to the washed steel jacket. They could be perfectly fine, but I would never take that chance.

BunnySlayer
06-25-2009, 12:40 AM
You all have a point. I've spent about $2,500.00 each on my two custom 1911's. Truth is I'd rather wear them out shooting wolf than waste them in the safe shooting nothing. I bought them to shoot, not collect dust. I can only reload so much as primers are in as short supply as ammo. If wolf is there I'll shoot it. Is it my first choice? No but of it's my ONLY choice I'd rather practice with that than with nothing. I can replace an extractor if it comes to it.

quickcf
06-25-2009, 1:06 AM
Yes, I would shoot Wolf out of my 1911s if that was the only choice.

steve40
06-25-2009, 1:12 AM
wow, most of you guy are all so paranoid, lol. the only problems i have with wolf is that it gets your gun more dirty then normal, other then that, its fine. I dont mind cleaning my firearm. i shot hundreds of rounds from wolf in my AR, and never had a single problem. but hey, its all personal opinion.

STAGE 2
06-25-2009, 1:47 AM
Apparently you don't know much about AR's or 5.56 chambers....

I do, which is why I said what I said. Steel does not expand the same as brass. Thats one of the reasons why wolf has to coat their stuff. The AR requires a certian type of powder to function properly (remember all those gi's in vietnam who died because some whizkid though there was't any difference between stick and ball powder. And as we all know, the AR craps where it eats, so really dirty ammo doesn't help anyone.

Your car would probably run on leaded gas, but that doesn't mean it would run well or that is was intended for it.

Farva
06-25-2009, 6:54 AM
Aint nothing wrong with a lil Wolf ammo. If its available, and thats all you can get for a shoot then go on shooting. Its not the best ammo, its not the first choice or even the 2nd, but hell if its the only thing you can get for a weekend of shooting then grab that stuff up.

bangkok
06-25-2009, 10:24 AM
Not my first choice, but if that's all I can get...

TZL
06-25-2009, 10:36 AM
lets face it, commercial ARs are not built to tight tollerances, in fact no firearms are built to tight tolerances

If you want "tight tolerances" look at semiconductors or other "high tech" stuff, as much as i love them, firearms are low-tech tools

If your AR was so tight on tolerance, then .223 vs 5.56 nato should make a difference. Wolf is just ammo, so unless you have a throated match gun or something, it should run just fine. I have 10 AR platform firearms, and some of them had have thousands of rounds of wolf or silver bear through them....no problems yet.

Yes a steel case doesn't expand as well, still works just fine. No problems switching between polymer (not lacquer) coated wolf and brass in any of my ARs.....your welcome not to run steel ammo, just leaves more for me....

Chrome lined chamber and barrel helped fix those old vietnam problems.

who can really argue what and what not an AR was designed to do.....Stoner didn't design them to shoot pistol caliber, 50 beowulf, 6.8spc, 6.5 grendel, 50 bmg, 458 socom, 450 bushmaster, 22lr, .410 gauge, 7.62x39, didn't design AR pistols.....but those seem to work also....its a versatile platform.

Your car will run on leaded gas, you'll ruin the catalyst.....but otherwise it will run fine, i've run leaded race gas in my catalyst free track car before

In fact, save for air polution and the catalyst damage, a car would theortically run better on leaded gas b/c the tetra-ethyl lead was designed to cushion the valve train components, cars has to be re-designed to tolerate the increased valve train stress without lead in the gasoline

Leaded gasoline also reduced pinging so theortically your car could run higher compression than its un-leaded state, which could lead to more horsepower

Lets see. A rifle that has tight tolerances, designed for a specific type of ammunition, using a specific type of case, and a specific type of powder shouldn't have any problems using ammo that fits none of these characteristics. Yeah, that makes sense.

If someone said that your car should run perfectly fine on leaded gas you'd call them an idiot. This is no different.

STAGE 2
06-25-2009, 10:54 AM
lets face it, commercial ARs are not built to tight tollerances, in fact no firearms are built to tight tolerances

Relativist fallacy. Whe compared to other battle carbines such as the AK, AR's are built to tight tolerances.


If your AR was so tight on tolerance, then .223 vs 5.56 nato should make a difference.

It does when shooting 5.56 in a .223 chambered gun.


Wolf is just ammo, so unless you have a throated match gun or something, it should run just fine.

Then why is the firearms world littered with first hand accounts of failures and parts breakage with wolf ammo? Why do folks who work on AR's both on this board and elsewhere advise against using it? Sure you and your buddy might not have any prolbems, but there are plenty who have. A 50% success rate isn't "just fine". Its actually quite dismal where guns are concerned.


Your car will run on leaded gas, you'll ruin the catalyst.....but otherwise it will run fine, i've run leaded race gas in my catalyst free track car before

In fact, save for air polution and the catalyst damage, a car would theortically run better on leaded gas b/c the tetra-ethyl lead was designed to cushion the valve train components, cars has to be re-designed to tolerate the increased valve train stress without lead in the gasoline

Leaded gasoline also reduced pinging so theortically your car could run higher compression than its un-leaded state, which could lead to more horsepower

Theoretically all sorts of things should work out great, but they usually don't. Running leaded gas in a modern car is going to do all sorts of wonderful things including frying the O2 sensor, mess with the MAF, and probably fark up the rest of the emissions equipment. Yeah you can run it, but its not going to run well because the engine wasn't designed for it.

M1A Rifleman
06-25-2009, 12:41 PM
No way!

epic4444
06-25-2009, 12:54 PM
honestly your kimber is a tool and a fine one at that...im sure it can more than handle the wolf ammo....i doubt ill affects will come from it

highpowermatch
06-25-2009, 3:54 PM
worked fine in my xd-40, RIA 1911, pt 92, sks's but my buddy had an ar that would not feed, but have heard of others that would. buy it and if you dont like it sell it off to someone.

Juicymeat
06-25-2009, 4:38 PM
Ran 150 rounds of it through my 1911...a Les Baer :eek:. Ran perfectly fine.

Ditch
06-25-2009, 8:06 PM
I like wolf ammo too! I did notice a post that stated wolf ammo was made in Russia? I have 22 match / target wolf ammo made in Germany. I have shot 45 wolf and worked fine.....what I wonder is why its made it 2 different countries?

Futurecollector
06-25-2009, 8:09 PM
Ill use wtv ammo I can get, after all Its just a gun,






























































Ok so I wouldnt even use Wolf in my glocks lol

thegrayham
06-25-2009, 9:18 PM
So while I have never used Wolf ammo, I really would love to give it a try, especially with availability right now. The main problem I encounter is that every range I go to has a big "No Wolf Ammo" sign.

steve40
06-26-2009, 10:54 PM
So while I have never used Wolf ammo, I really would love to give it a try, especially with availability right now. The main problem I encounter is that every range I go to has a big "No Wolf Ammo" sign.

really? why would anyone care what ammo you use? fire hazard or just some joke sign?

thegrayham
06-26-2009, 11:11 PM
The employee of one store / range indicated that wolf ammo can damage the back stops of the range. Apparently this is because the copper jacket is very very thin, and underneath that is a steel jacket surrounding the lead core. The range owners feel that this steel jacket can damage their backstops but I also have heard second hand that other ranges allow it and have no problems.

johnthomas
06-27-2009, 12:47 AM
I shoot Wolf thru my Colt 1911, 70 series. No problems. I also shoot it thru
my SKS and CZ82. I also use surplus ammo. For me the key is cleaning my weapons.

hybridatsun350
06-27-2009, 11:25 AM
The employee of one store / range indicated that wolf ammo can damage the back stops of the range. Apparently this is because the copper jacket is very very thin, and underneath that is a steel jacket surrounding the lead core. The range owners feel that this steel jacket can damage their backstops but I also have heard second hand that other ranges allow it and have no problems.

It's because ranges don't want to deal with the non-reloadable steel cases.

Kingofthehill
06-27-2009, 11:59 AM
The employee of one store / range indicated that wolf ammo can damage the back stops of the range. Apparently this is because the copper jacket is very very thin, and underneath that is a steel jacket surrounding the lead core. The range owners feel that this steel jacket can damage their backstops but I also have heard second hand that other ranges allow it and have no problems.

Ive worked at ranges that have stated "No Wolf Ammo"... its only because they are too lazy to seperate the casings to send to their reloaders.

Its all about being lazy.

JOe

steve40
06-27-2009, 1:54 PM
I shoot Wolf thru my Colt 1911, 70 series. No problems. I also shoot it thru
my SKS and CZ82. I also use surplus ammo. For me the key is cleaning my weapons.

ya, same here. just clean your weapons. i guess people perfer bit**ing instead of cleaning. lol

steve40
06-27-2009, 1:55 PM
Ive worked at ranges that have stated "No Wolf Ammo"... its only because they are too lazy to seperate the casings to send to their reloaders.

Its all about being lazy.

JOe

hahahaha, lazy.....

jaymz
06-27-2009, 2:47 PM
Apparently you don't know much anything about AR's or 5.56 chambers....


Fixed it for ya'!

jaymz
06-27-2009, 2:54 PM
I do, which is why I said what I said. Steel does not expand the same as brass. Thats one of the reasons why wolf has to coat their stuff.

That's correct. Brass is softer than steel, it will therefore expand MORE than steel, which would make it more likely to stick in a chamber than steel. If Wolf ammo was as crappy as everybody says it is, why are they still in business? Are there any gun manufacturers that say "don't use Wolf ammo or your warranty is voided"? I doubt it. I shoot Wolf through my $200 beaters and my $2000 pistols and rifles. No problems any more or less than with any other ammo.