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View Full Version : PPT - Lock purchase required?


Shane916
06-21-2009, 12:57 PM
In regards to a handgun PPT transfer, Kimber to be exact.

The firearm has the CA DOJ approved Kimber lock with the firearm.

The FFL forces the buyer to purchase a new gun lock from their store saying that the law requires the buyer to purchase a new lock.

I'll reserve by thoughts on this...What are your thoughts?

Librarian
06-21-2009, 1:00 PM
If the Kimber has a CA-approved lock, you're buying it when you buy the gun.

That should be the end of the story. The laws require that you have one before the dealer can deliver the gun; you have one.

See http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Buying_and_selling_firearms_in_California#Locks.2C _Safes.2C_and_Laws

roc
06-21-2009, 1:01 PM
not sure about what the deal is with the guns that come with locks either. I have been asked to buy locks with new firearms that comes with it as well. i think its just the FFL trying to protect themselves. Alternatively, you can sign an affidavit that states you own a CA approved gun safe and not buy a lock. Although Turners at Redondo Beach did not give me that option and charged me for a new lock but never gave it to me.

Shane916
06-21-2009, 1:04 PM
not sure about what the deal is with the guns that come with locks either. I have been asked to buy locks with new firearms that comes with it as well. i think its just the FFL trying to protect themselves. Alternatively, you can sign an affidavit that states you own a CA approved gun safe and not buy a lock. Although Turners at Redondo Beach did not give me that option and charged me for a new lock but never gave it to me.

Wow that sounds really shady!

Unfortunately this FFL wouldn't accept the safe affidavit either.

Pistolwhipped
06-21-2009, 1:09 PM
Its pretty straight forward. All you need is a CA approved lock to show the FFL when you pick up your gun. If the gun comes with a lock then you absolutely do not need to buy another lock. Thats just the FFL trying to make an extra buck.:dupe:

Oldnoob
06-21-2009, 1:19 PM
The three turner's I've been to (west covina, corona and pasadena) they all do the same (charge the lock at the same time with either PPT or DROS if you buy their gun). This way, you CANNOT get a refund on the lock if you bring it back. And they will not accept gun safe affidavit neither.

What I do (if I have to use them for PPT), I would walk in and buy a lock off their shelf for $6.99 (which will be nicer looking then the POS red one they gave you if you buy it with gun), pay cash, than when you doing the PPT just show them the receive (they would have to make a copy of it) than return the lock when you picking up your gun (or any other day).

You can also buy it from wal mart if there is one close by. The lock have to be purchase within 30 days of PPT. I'm not sure if there is law but many bad FFL will claim that is the law, including turner.

Starscream
06-21-2009, 1:20 PM
You need to buy a gun lock when you do a PPT. You can either get one from walmart and just return it after or buy one from one of your friends with a receipt stating that is was in the past 30 days.

Holocanthus
06-21-2009, 1:32 PM
...or buy one from one of your friends with a receipt stating that is was in the past 30 days.

That didn't work for me. And I had a professional receipt like the ones you get from the doctor's office.

ZombieKiller
06-21-2009, 1:51 PM
Have the seller write a receipt that he sold the lock to you with an appropriate date- that has worked for me on PPT........

Schlamoo
06-21-2009, 1:54 PM
This by far is the most un-uniform and confusing thing and it differs from shop to shop. Most shops will require you to buy a lock or have one purchased in the last 30 days.

Confession time, I was forced to by a lock a year ago from a crappy store in Turlock. One employee told me I didn't need to bring one as the safe affidavate would waive the requirement. On pick up day another employee wouldn't let it go without a lock, they stuck me for 16.99 because they didn't have a "cheap" one available. I took my reciept home scanned it into my computer and ever since I just change the dates on my computer and print out a "new" reciept. Every gun I've picked up I take my reciept and the lock and present it to the shop, they make a copy and I leave with my gun. Never had to even take the lock out of the package until my last pick up when they made me open it and lock the gun up before leaving the store.

May not be the most ethical, but its just my way of "sticking it to the man".
I'm such a rebel......

walter
06-21-2009, 3:04 PM
This by far is the most un-uniform and confusing thing and it differs from shop to shop. Most shops will require you to buy a lock or have one purchased in the last 30 days.

Confession time, I was forced to by a lock a year ago from a crappy store in Turlock. One employee told me I didn't need to bring one as the safe affidavate would waive the requirement. On pick up day another employee wouldn't let it go without a lock, they stuck me for 16.99 because they didn't have a "cheap" one available. I took my reciept home scanned it into my computer and ever since I just change the dates on my computer and print out a "new" reciept. Every gun I've picked up I take my reciept and the lock and present it to the shop, they make a copy and I leave with my gun. Never had to even take the lock out of the package until my last pick up when they made me open it and lock the gun up before leaving the store.

May not be the most ethical, but its just my way of "sticking it to the man".
I'm such a rebel......

gangster!

K5Cruiser
06-21-2009, 5:50 PM
My local dealer told me the gun safe affidavit is only for long guns. In other words, I've got to buy a lock and show the receipt. I definitely don't agree with this, and simply resort to buying a lock from Big 5, then returning it after the transfer.

ke6guj
06-21-2009, 6:03 PM
CA law still allows for the safe affidavit for handgun transfers, but the feds require a lock to be provided with the handgun. Now, I don't recall any "30 day receipt" BS with the federal requirements, and IIRC the 4473 is just noted that a lock was provided. CA adds that "30 day receipt" issue for customer supplied locks.

I think it could be argued that you could fill out the safe affidavit to satisfy the CA requirements, and just give the FFL a lock that would be provided back to you upon pickup. That should satisfy both CA and federal laws, but finding an FFL willing to do that is the trick.

Librarian
06-21-2009, 6:10 PM
My local dealer told me the gun safe affidavit is only for long guns. In other words, I've got to buy a lock and show the receipt. I definitely don't agree with this, and simply resort to buying a lock from Big 5, then returning it after the transfer.

Functionally, the dealer is correct; BATF will not accept the California Safe Affidavit - they say it isn't their doc - but the Federal safety device law covers only handguns.

You used the correct workaround.

JTROKS
06-21-2009, 6:15 PM
I got so many locks now that I just bring in the receipt then return the lock afterward. I do buy ammo with the refunded money at the same store.

smokingloon
06-21-2009, 10:55 PM
top
# 12088.1. (a) All firearms sold or transferred in this state by a licensed firearms dealer, including private transfers through a dealer, and all firearms manufactured in this state, shall include or be accompanied by a firearms safety device that is listed on the Department of Justice's roster of approved firearms safety devices and that is identified as appropriate for that firearm by reference to either the manufacturer and model of the firearm, or to the physical characteristics of the firearm that match those listed on the roster for use with the device. (b) All firearms sold or transferred in this state by a licensed firearms dealer, including private transfers through a dealer, and all firearms manufactured in this state shall be accompanied with warning language or labels as described in Section 12088.3. (c)(1) All long-gun safes commercially sold or transferred in this state, or manufactured in this state for sale in this state, that do not meet the standards for gun safes adopted pursuant to Section 12088.2 shall be accompanied by the following warning:

"WARNING: This gun safe does not meet the safety standards for gun safes specified in California Penal Code Section 12088.2. It does not satisfy the requirements of Penal Code Section 12088.1, which mandates that all firearms sold in California be accompanied by a firearms safety device or proof of ownership, as required by law, of a gun safe that meets the Section 12088.2 minimum safety standards developed by the California Attorney General."
(2) This warning shall be conspicuously displayed in its entirety on the principal display panel of the gun safe's package, on any descriptive materials that accompany the gun safe, and on a label affixed to the front of the gun safe. (3) This warning shall be displayed in both English and Spanish in conspicuous and legible type in contrast by typography, layout, or color with other printed matter on the package or descriptive materials in a manner consistent with Part 1500.121 of Title 16 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or successor regulations thereto. (d) The sale or transfer of a firearm shall be exempt from subdivision (a) if both of the following apply: (1) The purchaser or transferee owns a gun safe that meets the standards set forth in Section 12088.2. Gun safes shall not be required to be tested, and therefore may meet the standards without appearing on the Department of Justice roster. (2) The purchaser or transferee presents an original receipt for purchase of the gun safe, or other proof of purchase or ownership of the gun safe as authorized by the Attorney General, to the firearms dealer. The dealer shall maintain a copy of this receipt or proof of purchase with the dealers' record of sales of firearms. (e) The sale or transfer of a firearm shall be exempt from subdivision (a) if all of the following apply: (1) The purchaser or transferee purchases an approved safety device no more than 30 days prior to the day the purchaser or transferee takes possession of the firearm.

http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/gunsafe.php

Is this not it?

ke6guj
06-21-2009, 11:07 PM
Is this not it?

Is this what?

bombadillo
06-21-2009, 11:10 PM
Do the project childsafe locks work for what they're looking for??

ke6guj
06-21-2009, 11:32 PM
Do the project childsafe locks work for what they're looking for??who are you referring to in the "what they're looking for?", CA or feds? I'd assume that it would meet the federal safety device requirements. For CA, it would depend if the that model was listed in the Roster of Approved Firearms Safety Devices. And if you provided it to the FFL, it would need to be accompanied with a receipt less than 30 days old, something many places that give them away are unwilling to do.

NotSoFast
06-21-2009, 11:54 PM
When I sold my Glock, I put the lock that came with it inm the box. Saved the purchaser from having to buy one.

Also, I think the law reads you can provide your own if you have proof you bought the lock within 30 days on the purchase of a new gun. Don't quote me on that though. Do your own research to make sure.

josh_crosson
06-22-2009, 12:02 AM
when i called BullsEye in san rafael he said for the private party transfer they charge $35 for the transfer and will sell me a lock for $.01 im not sure if they do it for everyone or if i was jusat lucky. great deal if you ask me.

ck867
06-22-2009, 12:10 AM
In regards to a handgun PPT transfer, Kimber to be exact.

The firearm has the CA DOJ approved Kimber lock with the firearm.

The FFL forces the buyer to purchase a new gun lock from their store saying that the law requires the buyer to purchase a new lock.

I'll reserve by thoughts on this...What are your thoughts?

you mind telling us the shop that is doing this?

Riodog
06-22-2009, 12:13 AM
The three turner's I've been to (west covina, corona and pasadena) they all do the same (charge the lock at the same time with either PPT or DROS if you buy their gun). This way, you CANNOT get a refund on the lock if you bring it back. And they will not accept gun safe affidavit neither.

While I agree that Turners has some goofy (untrained) people working there I don't think spreading FUD about one of the last large firearms retailers in California is doing any one a service.
I've bought 3 Smiths from them (Corona) in the last 6 months and have not been charged for any locks.
The only thing on the receipt is "OEM lock R15SC". No charge.

If there is not a lock included from the manufacturer when you go to purchase said weapon, hand them one of the many 'approved' locks you have laying around and ask them if they'll kindly include this lock when they dros the weapon->NO CHARGE. If they refuse->>>>take your business elsewhere and tell them why. It doesn't have to be confrontational and if they want the business they'll work with you.
Rio

Scratch705
06-22-2009, 12:14 AM
The three turner's I've been to (west covina, corona and pasadena) they all do the same (charge the lock at the same time with either PPT or DROS if you buy their gun). This way, you CANNOT get a refund on the lock if you bring it back. And they will not accept gun safe affidavit neither.

weird that you had a bad experience with the turner's in west covina? i just did a PPT there on the 19th, and when the employee asked if there was a lock, seller showed him the factory lock that the gun came with and he accepted it. :confused: