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frankiejoe577
06-20-2009, 4:10 AM
when will guns in California be sold with the device that imprints the serial number on the shell?

I heard about this awhile ago

caoboy
06-20-2009, 4:16 AM
How would that work?

Mssr. Eleganté
06-20-2009, 4:23 AM
when will guns in California be sold with the device that imprints the serial number on the shell?

I heard about this awhile ago

Probably never.

The microstamping law was pushed by the only company that has a patent on the technology. The NRA was able to get language into the final bill that said microstamping can't be implemented in California as long as only one company holds the patent to the technology. Once this company's patent runs out then they will have no financial incentive to push the technology in California.

Quiet
06-20-2009, 4:28 AM
Penal Code 12126
As used in this chapter, "unsafe handgun" means any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 12001, for which any of the following is true:
(b) For a pistol:
(7) Commencing January 1, 2010, for all semiautomatic pistols that are not already listed on the roster pursuant to Section 12131, it is not designed and equipped with a microscopic array of characters that identify the make, model, and serial number of the pistol, etched or otherwise imprinted in two or more places on the interior surface or internal working parts of the pistol, and that are transferred by imprinting on each cartridge case when the firearm is fired, provided that the Department of Justice certifies that the technology used to create the imprint is available to more than one manufacturer unencumbered by any patent restrictions. The Attorney General may also approve a method of equal or greater reliability and effectiveness in identifying the specific serial number of a firearm from spent cartridge casings discharged by that firearm than that which is set forth in this paragraph, to be thereafter required as otherwise set forth by this paragraph where the Attorney General certifies that this new method is also unencumbered by any patent restrictions. Approval by the Attorney General shall include notice of that fact via regulations adopted by the Attorney General for purposes of implementing that method for purposes of this paragraph. The microscopic array of characters required by this section shall not be considered the name of the maker, model, manufacturer's number, or other mark of identification, including any distinguishing number or mark assigned by the Department of Justice, within the meaning of Sections 12090 and 12094.

THT
06-20-2009, 6:29 AM
Penal Code 12126
As used in this chapter, "unsafe handgun" means any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 12001, for which any of the following is true:
(b) For a pistol:
(7) Commencing January 1, 2010, for all semiautomatic pistols that are not already listed on the roster pursuant to Section 12131, it is not designed and equipped with a microscopic array of characters that identify the make, model, and serial number of the pistol, etched or otherwise imprinted in two or more places on the interior surface or internal working parts of the pistol, and that are transferred by imprinting on each cartridge case when the firearm is fired, provided that the Department of Justice certifies that the technology used to create the imprint is available to more than one manufacturer unencumbered by any patent restrictions. The Attorney General may also approve a method of equal or greater reliability and effectiveness in identifying the specific serial number of a firearm from spent cartridge casings discharged by that firearm than that which is set forth in this paragraph, to be thereafter required as otherwise set forth by this paragraph where the Attorney General certifies that this new method is also unencumbered by any patent restrictions. Approval by the Attorney General shall include notice of that fact via regulations adopted by the Attorney General for purposes of implementing that method for purposes of this paragraph. The microscopic array of characters required by this section shall not be considered the name of the maker, model, manufacturer's number, or other mark of identification, including any distinguishing number or mark assigned by the Department of Justice, within the meaning of Sections 12090 and 12094.
1. Commit crime
2. Change firing pin
3. Profit

Great law, that one.

Legasat
06-20-2009, 10:24 AM
when will guns in California be sold with the device that imprints the serial number on the shell?

Hopefully never

hoffmang
06-20-2009, 10:46 AM
Also, should Peña v. Cid (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Pena_v_Cid) succeed, it undercuts the microstamping requirement as well.

-Gene

hybridatsun350
06-20-2009, 12:13 PM
I've heard the technology is to be released in.... two weeks! :eek:

nick
06-20-2009, 12:50 PM
More like:

1. Buy a gun.
2. While on a 10-day wait, order another firing pin from a free state.
3. Pick up the gun.
4. Change the firing pin.
5. Sell the original firing pin as a curio on Ebay. It'll add $50-100-150 to the cost of a gun, so it has to be worth at least a couple of bucks on a free market.

SimpleCountryActuary
06-20-2009, 10:20 PM
More like:

1. Buy a gun.
2. While on a 10-day wait, order another firing pin from a free state.
3. Pick up the gun.
4. Change the firing pin.
5. Sell the original firing pin as a curio on Ebay. It'll add $50-100-150 to the cost of a gun, so it has to be worth at least a couple of bucks on a free market.

Watch it. The regulation will call that "illegal importation of cop-killer firing pins".

Note to myself: order replacement firing pins.

Ike Arumba
06-21-2009, 9:08 AM
Also, should Peña v. Cid (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Pena_v_Cid) succeed, it undercuts the microstamping requirement as well.

-Gene

I followed that URL, and am puzzled. It says, "Ivan Peña is the first named defendant..." but from the rest of the context, it sounds like Peña is actually the first plaintiff.

hoffmang
06-21-2009, 9:34 AM
I followed that URL, and am puzzled. It says, "Ivan Peña is the first named defendant..." but from the rest of the context, it sounds like Peña is actually the first plaintiff.

You were quite correct. I've updated the wiki to fix that.

-Gene

Librarian
06-21-2009, 12:09 PM
I followed that URL, and am puzzled. It says, "Ivan Peña is the first named defendant..." but from the rest of the context, it sounds like Peña is actually the first plaintiff.

:o :o :o

Sorry. Thanks, Gene!

MarioS
06-21-2009, 7:46 PM
Doing this via firing pin would be pretty stupid and useless. Again, seems like bad legislation proposed by politicians that are out of touch with reality. Not surprising when it comes to California.

And seriously, if the scumbag idiots committing these crimes had half a brain, they would just pick up their casings and take them while they flee like children.

AJAX22
06-21-2009, 7:59 PM
Watch it. The regulation will call that "illegal importation of cop-killer firing pins".

Note to myself: order replacement firing pins.

I keep a couple of spare complete upper assemblies for most of my pistols... you never know when you might need to swap out a barrel/breach face/firing pin/ejector/extractor on VERY short notice...

Its much simpler to have complete units than to just keep a stock of seperate parts.

;)

hoffmang
06-21-2009, 10:10 PM
Sorry. Thanks, Gene!

Dude. I'm just so happy that I'm not the only one keeping the cases up to date!

-Gene

cousinkix1953
06-22-2009, 8:22 AM
Probably never.

The microstamping law was pushed by the only company that has a patent on the technology. The NRA was able to get language into the final bill that said microstamping can't be implemented in California as long as only one company holds the patent to the technology. Once this company's patent runs out then they will have no financial incentive to push the technology in California.
Patents on firearms products can last for 100 years. It's no coincidence that Remington waited for the clock to run out, before selling their model 798 rifles, which are copies of the original Mauser 98s. Companies that made them before 1998 paid huge royalties to sell their FNs, Interarms, Parker & Hale sporters etc in the 70s and 80s.

Microstamping could be way off in the future unless this company wants to give up it's trade secrets to competitors...

MasterYong
06-22-2009, 10:59 AM
The microstamping could never be used to determine which gun committed which crime, etc, anyways:

First of all, I KNOW I'm not the only one at the range that grabs the brass of that guy that just left without cleaning up after himself. YOINK! Now, I have brass that has someone else's microstamping on it (assuming this happened after the law went into effect).

Then, I commit a serious crime (hypothetically, I would of course never do such a thing) by firing a handgun in situation X. After firing said handgun, I pick up my spent brass (or better yet have a brass catcher) and I drop the brass from that poor jerk that left his behind at the range. Then, the authorities spend God only know how much time trying to match the brass to a gun that never fired the shots.

scobun
06-22-2009, 11:14 AM
More like:

1. Buy a gun.
2. While on a 10-day wait, order another firing pin from a free state.
3. Pick up the gun.
4. Change the firing pin.
5. Sell the original firing pin as a curio on Ebay. It'll add $50-100-150 to the cost of a gun, so it has to be worth at least a couple of bucks on a free market.

I'd probably not sell it, as I could see a less than above the table character buying it, robbing a bank or shooting someone, and you'll get a visit from the five-o. Luckily, this requirement will probably never go into effect.