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frankiejoe577
06-20-2009, 12:53 AM
Hello, I'm pursuing a career in law enforcement I'm 19 years old. I'm currently a Public Safety Officer in Northern California. (Security Guard) I already have permits to carry a baton and OC. My father has a Glock 19 that he wants to give me. Is he allowed to give me the handgun since I'm under 21 but over 18?
I asked a gun dealer and he said no there is no way this can happen. No one under 21 can have a handgun registered to them. But I have heard about something called a "INTRA-FAMILIAL HANDGUN TRANSACTION." Can someone please tell me if this would work? All we have to do is pay $19 and mail in the form then it would change the owner of the gun from my dad to me? I have a clean record. Never done anything bad the only thing they have me in 'RIMS' for is being an RP for many things. Thank you and I await your reply. :chris:

lorax3
06-20-2009, 1:03 AM
The intra-familial transfer does exist. You only need to be 21 to buy a handgun, but 18 to own. Just fill out the form along with $19 and send it to the DOJ. The PC also requires that you have an HSC before you take possession of the handgun.

See the below link for more info.

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transferring_Firearms_Among_Some_Family_Members

The form is here (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/oplaw.pdf)

Mssr. Eleganté
06-20-2009, 1:09 AM
All we have to do is pay $19 and mail in the form then it would change the owner of the gun from my dad to me?

Paying the $19 and mailing in the form would change the registration from your dad to you. But if you have the HSC then the gun becomes legally yours the second you dad gives it to you. You can even legally own it for 29 days before mailing in the Intrafamilial Transfer form.

This only works of your dad is also a California resident. Firearms transfers between resident of different States require the use of an FFL, and once an FFL is involved the 21 year limit comes into play.

frankiejoe577
06-20-2009, 1:13 AM
see new post http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=195900

RolinThundr
06-20-2009, 1:19 AM
You will need to fill out the Intrafamilial Handgun Transaction Report (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/oplaw.pdf) paperwork to transfer the gun from your dad to you- make sure to keep a copy of the form for your records- and the fee is $19. I was unable to find an age guideline for Intrafamilial Transfers. You will need to be 21 in order to purchase handgun ammunition. Ammo stocks are improving as all those freaking out about Obama's election are either letting up or running out of money. After a few more months, ammo should not become scarce again in CA unless the ammo bill (AB962??) passes. There is no time period that you need to wait in order to prevent the appearance of a straw purchase, since it is a transfer from father to son.

lorax3
06-20-2009, 1:24 AM
I was unable to find an age guideline for Intrafamilial Transfers, but I believe you must be 21 in order to conduct the transfer.

You only need to be 18.

(A) The person to whom the firearm is transferred shall, within 30
days of taking possession of the firearm, forward by prepaid mail or
deliver in person to the Department of Justice, a report that
includes information concerning the individual taking possession of
the firearm, how title was obtained and from whom, and a description
of the firearm in question. The report forms that individuals
complete pursuant to this paragraph shall be provided to them by the
Department of Justice.
(B) The person taking title to the firearm shall first obtain a
handgun safety certificate.
(C) The person receiving the firearm is 18 years of age or older.

(3) As used in this subdivision, "immediate family member" means
any one of the following relationships:
(A) Parent and child.
(B) Grandparent and grandchild.

74elko
06-28-2009, 4:19 PM
Not meaning to threadjack, but my mom just purchased a Glock 17 for me and is going to gift it to me when she gets it on the 7th of july. When the Intra-Familiar form asks how possesion was obtained, do I just put gift? Or what would be the correct term to put?

Frijolito1988
06-28-2009, 4:25 PM
Not meaning to threadjack, but my mom just purchased a Glock 17 for me and is going to gift it to me when she gets it on the 7th of july. When the Intra-Familiar form asks how possesion was obtained, do I just put gift? Or what would be the correct term to put?

I THINK what you just said your mom will be doing is a straw purchase. Buying with the intent to give to you right when she gets it, instead of just gifting a gun to a son that parents already own.

74elko
06-28-2009, 4:33 PM
I THINK what you just said your mom will be doing is a straw purchase. Buying with the intent to give to you right when she gets it, instead of just gifting a gun to a son that parents already own.

From my understanding it is only a straw sale if the person receiving the handgun is prohibited from legally owning a handgun. I am 19 and I am legally able to own a gun. If I am wrong someone correct me. By the way if it makes a difference it really is a gift from my mom paid for with her money.

CSDGuy
06-28-2009, 4:37 PM
Frijolito: that would only be a straw purchase if the recipient is ineligible to own the firearm. This would be a completely legal transaction, as long as the interfamilial/oplaw form is used. 74elko: Yes, you'd essentially put "Gift from Mother" in the box that asks how you acquired it. As long as you're 18+, have an HSC (or be exempt) and eligible to own a firearm...(no prohibiting Misdemeanors, felonies, restraining orders...) you're good to go.

74elko
06-28-2009, 4:41 PM
Thanks so much, that was the only thing keeping me from my soon to be glock.

TitanCi
06-29-2009, 12:12 PM
with all these "gift-ing" and having someone else buy you a pistol and transferring it over, what's the purpose of even having a 21 YO requirement then? It seems extraneous.

ajaffe
06-29-2009, 12:42 PM
Welcome to the United States! To be fair though, not many parents will go out and drop 500 bucks on a handgun for their kid. And if they accept money for it then they just committed a straw purchase which is a big nono.

Straws are really only considered straws when money is involved and/or when the person being given the gun is ineligible to own one.

Turo
06-29-2009, 5:51 PM
I THINK what you just said your mom will be doing is a straw purchase. Buying with the intent to give to you right when she gets it, instead of just gifting a gun to a son that parents already own.

But if she doesn't intend to give it to you, but then changes her mind suddenly, then she didn't "buy it for you." It's really difficult to govern intent, so she doesn't intend to give you the gun, but she can change her mind whenever she likes.

sega18
06-29-2009, 6:59 PM
When my dad bought my OLL (receiver), I paid for it out of my bank account and he then took possession (10 days later). I paid for it and later he "gave" me the built rifle. When I paid for it, the FFL had no issue using my debit card.

Would I be allowed to pay for my dad's purchase of a pistol (once I turn 18), with no formal "understanding" of intra-familial transfer, but perhaps unspoken intent of transferring the pistol to me?

If you ask me, this question is probably more involved than it has to be.

Also, under the "how possession was obtained" it would be something like "personal transfer"(person physically gave it to me)?

ajaffe
06-29-2009, 7:10 PM
Here.
If person A pays for a gun for person B, but person B does the FFL paperwork, it is legal.
If person A pays for a gun for person B, but person A does the FFL paperwork and it is not a inter-familial transfer, it is illegal.
If person A pays for a gun that person B cannot own, and person A does the FFL paperwork, it is illegal.
If person A pays for a gun that person B cannot own (age wise and roster wise), but GIFTS it as a inter-familial transfer, it is legal. But should person B pay person A for the gun then it is illegal.

Werewolf1021
06-30-2009, 4:11 AM
If person A pays for a gun that person B cannot own (age wise and roster wise), but GIFTS it as a inter-familial transfer, it is legal. But should person B pay person A for the gun then it is illegal.

What is the difference? Is that compensating person A for buying you the handgun considered so because you can't buy it yourself and is then considered a straw purchase? Also, does this apply to all compensation or just monetary? (ie Person B gives a beef steer when Person A bought the handgun for Person B)

Turbinator
06-30-2009, 6:17 AM
And one more thing to add to this. How does one exactly determine eligiblity? I mean, the person could be of legal age to *own* (age 18) but might have a criminal record. That in itself couldn't be established until he or she undergoes a background check via the DROS process. And if there is no DROS, then it wouldn't otherwise be known that the person receiving the handgun via interfamilial transfer is ineligible, legally, but not by age.

It still sounds like a *possible* straw purchase to me, so I'd be interested in finding out how we can eliminate all doubt.

Turby

ajaffe
06-30-2009, 9:29 AM
What is the difference? Is that compensating person A for buying you the handgun considered so because you can't buy it yourself and is then considered a straw purchase? Also, does this apply to all compensation or just monetary? (ie Person B gives a beef steer when Person A bought the handgun for Person B)

When you pay that person for the gun specifically, in my understanding that is a straw purchase as you are not eligible to own the gun in the first place and someone else is buying it for you. I do not believe there to be such thing as a straw gift, so if there is someone please let me know and educate me.


And one more thing to add to this. How does one exactly determine eligiblity? I mean, the person could be of legal age to *own* (age 18) but might have a criminal record. That in itself couldn't be established until he or she undergoes a background check via the DROS process. And if there is no DROS, then it wouldn't otherwise be known that the person receiving the handgun via interfamilial transfer is ineligible, legally, but not by age.

It still sounds like a *possible* straw purchase to me, so I'd be interested in finding out how we can eliminate all doubt.

Turby

It does boil down to being in a gray area. But in that case I believe ignorance of the law (whether or not one is able to own a firearm) is not a good defense. Maybe someone can call in to their local PD or to the DOJ before the gun is purchased and gifted to them to see if they are eligible to own.

offshores
06-30-2009, 11:29 AM
Interesting topic! I've never heard of a "straw purchase" so I looked it up and here's a little definition from Wikipedia:

A straw purchase is any purchase whereby the purchaser is knowingly acquiring an item or service for someone who is, for whatever reason, unable to purchase the item or service themselves.

A straw purchase is not per se illegal in most cases, except as noted below. For example, someone may purchase an automobile for another who, due to poor credit, cannot purchase it themselves. The purchase is not illegal; however, if the other party defaults on payment, the original purchaser would be liable for the debt even if s/he could not collect the debt and/or repossess the car from the other party.

However, the term is best understood within the context of United States federal gun laws, whereby a straw purchase is defined as any purchase from a dealer holding a Federal Firearms License where the buyer conducting the transaction is acting as a proxy for another person. The law does not distinguish between someone who is purchasing on behalf of a person who legally cannot purchase or possess a firearm, and one who is not. In the United States, straw purchases are a felony violation of the Gun Control Act of 1968 for both the straw purchaser (who can also be charged with lying on Federal Form 4473) and the ultimate possessor. One of the questions on form 4473 is “I am the buyer of this firearm” and the purchaser must answer honestly yes or no, by check the appropriate box in ink. However, purchase of a firearm as a bona fide gift for someone who can own such a firearm is permitted.

Many gun shops have jointly participated in programs (such as: “Don’t Lie For The Other Guy”) to deter such purchases.

Here's another link with some good examples too:
http://nssf.org/media/FactSheets/Straw_Purchase.cfm

andrewj
06-30-2009, 11:44 AM
And one more thing to add to this. How does one exactly determine eligiblity? I mean, the person could be of legal age to *own* (age 18) but might have a criminal record. That in itself couldn't be established until he or she undergoes a background check via the DROS process. And if there is no DROS, then it wouldn't otherwise be known that the person receiving the handgun via interfamilial transfer is ineligible, legally, but not by age.

It still sounds like a *possible* straw purchase to me, so I'd be interested in finding out how we can eliminate all doubt.

Turby

Intra-Familial Transactions entail background checks for the recipient.

You consent to multiple checks when you sign the OpLaw application:

I expressly authorize DOJ to perform firearms eligibility checks of all relevant state and federal databases, including the National Instant
Criminal Background Check System.


Once processed, the recipient receives a notification stating:

A firearm eligibility check has been completed confirming your eligibility to possess firearms.

Turbinator
06-30-2009, 1:21 PM
Intra-Familial Transactions entail background checks for the recipient.

You consent to multiple checks when you sign the OpLaw application:

Once processed, the recipient receives a notification stating:

Awesome. You completely answered the question right there.

So I agree then - an intrafamilial transfer, combined with a parental purchase, cannot be a straw transfer because if done properly, the right checks are in place to determine eligibility. Wow!

Turby

Mstrty
06-30-2009, 9:28 PM
just hang out long enough and you will have plenty of "experts" tell you it is not a straw purchase then wait only a few minutes more ant there will be equal numbers of "experts" telling you it is. got to love our gun laws even the DA, Police, BATF and the DOJ cant define.

I ask a local DA if I can purchase a non "not a non dangerous gun" that my brother "cop" purchases and then sells to me. The DA tells me well if your not prohibited I dont see how I could prosecute you on a straw purchase. My brother the "cop" says "straw purchase". So I must say again. got to love Ca. Sorry if I am :beatdeadhorse5:

ajaffe
06-30-2009, 9:41 PM
Along these lines, if someone were to cross into our state with a non-safe listed handgun to do a face to face private party transfer at a 01FFL, would this be legal? I am leaning heavily towards yes, but you never know....