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m98
07-02-2005, 2:44 AM
my question is that is it legal to have a loaded Magazine- not attached to the firearm/or loaded firearm, while moving from one hunting area to another on offroad trails? I'm asking this because I hate to load-unload-load-unload my mags when going from place to place. I carry about 5 mags for the sidearm and 4 for the rifle...why so many mags....(think)crop growers or(bad guys).
I know that in the published f/g booklet it states that it is illegal to transport a loaded firearm on public property but it's statement on the loaded mag only is kinda blurry. Any of you guys who hunt have a say on this?

C.G.
07-02-2005, 9:41 AM
Originally posted by m98:
my question is that is it legal to have a loaded Magazine- not attached to the firearm/or loaded firearm, while moving from one hunting area to another on offroad trails? I'm asking this because I hate to load-unload-load-unload my mags when going from place to place. I carry about 5 mags for the sidearm and 4 for the rifle...why so many mags....(think)crop growers or(bad guys).
I know that in the published f/g booklet it states that it is illegal to transport a loaded firearm on public property but it's statement on the loaded mag only is kinda blurry. Any of you guys who hunt have a say on this?
By Fish and Game regulations, a weapon is considered loaded when a round is chambered. So, you may have a magazine attached just as long the round is not chambered and it is not against local laws.

LongBch_SigP226
07-02-2005, 5:30 PM
Originally posted by cg:
By Fish and Game regulations, a weapon is considered loaded when a round is chambered. So, you may have a magazine attached just as long the round is not chambered and it is not against local laws.

You sure about this? Section 12031 (g) of CA penal code states "(g) A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell, consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm; except that a muzzle-loader firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder."

So that sounds like even if you have loaded magazine attached to the firearm, it is considered loaded.

_dk6@excite.com
07-02-2005, 6:30 PM
I have been checked many times when driving from one spot to another. As long as you are in the hills, you can travel with a loaded magazine as long as a round is not chambered.
The ranger will ask you to open the bolt and inspect the chamber. This does not apply to transoporting the weapon in a city.

Pablo
07-02-2005, 9:14 PM
Originally posted by DingChavez:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cg:
By Fish and Game regulations, a weapon is considered loaded when a round is chambered. So, you may have a magazine attached just as long the round is not chambered and it is not against local laws.

You sure about this? Section 12031 (g) of CA penal code states "(g) A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell, consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm; except that a muzzle-loader firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder."

So that sounds like even if you have loaded magazine attached to the firearm, it is considered loaded. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

CG is right, however he is talking about <span class="ev_code_RED">Fish and Game regulations</span>
You are also right Ding Chavez but you're talking about <span class="ev_code_RED">CA penal code </span>
so at the end if you are moving from one hunting area to another you sill need to unload your magazines.

LongBch_SigP226
07-02-2005, 9:33 PM
http://www.fgc.ca.gov/2004/04birdcombo.pdf

Open that PDF file from CA Fish & Game (you'll need Acrobat Reader) and read page 66 titled "Prohibition on loaded rifle or shotgun in vehicle".

P.C. 12031 (g) (http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/dwcl/12020.htm)

C.G.
07-02-2005, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by DingChavez:
http://www.fgc.ca.gov/2004/04birdcombo.pdf

Open that PDF file from CA Fish & Game (you'll need Acrobat Reader) and read page 66 titled "Prohibition on loaded rifle or shotgun in vehicle".
P.C. 12031 (g) (http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/dwcl/12020.htm)

No question on driving/gun in vehicle; but by "offroad trails" I assumed M98 would be hiking. So, M98 did you mean walking or driving? In either case, you have your answer.

delloro
07-03-2005, 8:15 AM
when you are on a public roas, the PC says totally unloaded. when you are not on a public road, the PC section above does not apply, but the F&G regs do.

if you want to know whether a particular piece if dirt is a public road or not, just ask the ranger as they will know and they will tell you.

capitol
07-03-2005, 12:38 PM
Public or private property, in the city or in the middle of the desert, California law still applies. You cant legally have a firearm loaded in your vehicle. This section of the penal code pretty much somes up the definition of "loaded"

Section 12031 (g) of CA penal code states "(g) A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell, consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm

delloro
07-03-2005, 1:51 PM
Originally posted by capitol:
Public or private property, in the city or in the middle of the desert, California law still applies. You cant legally have a firearm loaded in your vehicle. This section of the penal code pretty much somes up the definition of "loaded"

Section 12031 (g) of CA penal code states "(g) A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell, consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm

if you are going to practice law without a license, at least do a better job and cite all of the relevent parts of the PC section....

12031. (a) (1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when
he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a
vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an
incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a
prohibited area of unincorporated territory.

(f) As used in this section, "prohibited area" means any place
where it is unlawful to discharge a weapon.

(g) A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of
this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell,
consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or
shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but
not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof
attached to the firearm; except that a muzzle-loader firearm shall be
deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder
charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder.

(i) Nothing in this section shall prevent any person from carrying
a loaded firearm in an area within an incorporated city while
engaged in hunting, provided that the hunting at that place and time
is not prohibited by the city council.

(l) Nothing in this section shall prevent any person from having a
loaded weapon, if it is otherwise lawful, at his or her place of
residence, including any temporary residence or campsite.


So I hope you can see that if you are not in an incorporated city or a prohibited area, then PC12031 does not apply.

capitol
07-03-2005, 7:15 PM
Originally posted by delloro:
[if you are going to practice law without a license, at least do a better job and cite all of the relevent parts of the PC section....


Well, I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

LongBch_SigP226
07-03-2005, 7:23 PM
Originally posted by delloro:

if you are going to practice law without a license, at least do a better job and cite all of the relevent parts of the PC section....

12031. (a) (1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when
he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a
vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an
incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a
prohibited area of unincorporated territory.

So I hope you can see that if you are not in an incorporated city or a prohibited area, then PC12031 does not apply.

You omitted "any public place" part. That is the most important part.

Anyhow, I think we are drifting from the topic a little.

My guess is that you don't need to empty your magazine while moving from one hunting spot to another on offroad trail. For safety reason (accidental discharge) and potentially legal reason, you should clear the chamber and detach mags from your guns. Keep the mags in mag pouch on your belt or something so if you do need to defend yourself from crop growers, you can easily grab them.

m98
07-03-2005, 11:13 PM
It'll mostly be traveling from a vehicle on trails like logging/fire roads.

C.G.
07-03-2005, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by m98:
It'll mostly be traveling from a vehicle on trails like logging/fire roads.
M98 you are not making this easy. Travelling "from a vehicle" would, again, mean walking. Travelling "in a vehicle" would make it driving. Which one is it? In any case, the answers are above.

delloro
07-04-2005, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by LongBch_SigP226:
You omitted "any public place" part. That is the most important part.

I didn't omit it, it's there in my citation. and I don't see how it's the most important part. The "public place" is a qualifier within the subset of "incorporated city" or "prohibited area." if you are not in an incorporated city or a prohibited area, i.e., not hunting within city limits (generally, there is an exception) or an area where you are not allowed to hunt or have a gun (like a park or a wildlife preserve), then the "public place" does not matter. The "public place" means you can have a loaded firearm in a private place, even within a city or a prohibited area.




Originally posted by LongBch_SigP226:
Anyhow, I think we are drifting from the topic a little.

I don't think so, i thought I was right on point?

Originally posted by LongBch_SigP226:
My guess is that you don't need to empty your magazine while moving from one hunting spot to another on offroad trail. For safety reason (accidental discharge) and potentially legal reason, you should clear the chamber and detach mags from your guns. Keep the mags in mag pouch on your belt or something so if you do need to defend yourself from crop growers, you can easily grab them.

That's oversimplified.

If your move from one hunting spot to another takes you on a public road or in/through city limits or a prohibited area, then PC12031 applies and you must totally unload the weapon. if not, then you need only clear the chamber.

LongBch_SigP226
07-04-2005, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by delloro:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LongBch_SigP226:
You omitted "any public place" part. That is the most important part.

I didn't omit it, it's there in my citation. and I don't see how it's the most important part. The "public place" is a qualifier within the subset of "incorporated city" or "prohibited area." if you are not in an incorporated city or a prohibited area, i.e., not hunting within city limits (generally, there is an exception) or an area where you are not allowed to hunt or have a gun (like a park or a wildlife preserve), then the "public place" does not matter. The "public place" means you can have a loaded firearm in a private place, even within a city or a prohibited area.




Originally posted by LongBch_SigP226:
Anyhow, I think we are drifting from the topic a little.

I don't think so, i thought I was right on point?

Originally posted by LongBch_SigP226:
My guess is that you don't need to empty your magazine while moving from one hunting spot to another on offroad trail. For safety reason (accidental discharge) and potentially legal reason, you should clear the chamber and detach mags from your guns. Keep the mags in mag pouch on your belt or something so if you do need to defend yourself from crop growers, you can easily grab them.

That's oversimplified.

If your move from one hunting spot to another takes you on a public road or in/through city limits or a prohibited area, then PC12031 applies and you must totally unload the weapon. if not, then you need only clear the chamber. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What's wrong with you and personal attacks? We all know that
majority of us are not qualified to give legal advice to
another user. Are you a lawyer? I sure hope so because if
someone gets in trouble with the law, are you going to be
responsible for that person? If not, you need to stop
pushing your interpretation of the law onto other users here
like you are the law.

If you are so sure of everything, please post your full name, address,
law school graduated, date of admission to CA bar system,
or CA bar number, so that we know how to find you if someone
gets in trouble with the law. Just don't play lawyer online.

Thanks.

delloro
07-04-2005, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by LongBch_SigP226:
What's wrong with you and personal attacks?

what personal attacks? only you are getting upset. why are *you* all up in *my* koolaid?

We all know that majority of us are not qualified to give legal advice to another user. Are you a lawyer?

yes. as a matter of fact, I *am* a lawyer.

I sure hope so because if someone gets in trouble with the law, are you going to be responsible for that person?

no, legal malpractice does not extend to non-clients. that's why you aren't going to be responsible for your incorrect advice. http://www.mtfba.org/forum/images/smilies/homer.gif

If not, you need to stop pushing your interpretation of the law onto other users here like you are the law.

http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

If you are so sure of everything, please post your full name, address, law school graduated, date of admission to CA bar system, or CA bar number, so that we know how to find you if someone gets in trouble with the law. Just don't play lawyer online.

Thanks.

If you sure you are heterosexual, please post naked pix of your GF or wife online along with her address and phone number. http://forums.mi5clan.com/images/smilies/sofa.gif

If you sure you are a gun owner, please post pix of your gun, along with the serial number, a picture of you, your address, etc. http://www.calguns.net/laughroll.gif

But seriously .... you may have my professional information once you engage my services, including a retainer. If you want me to quit "playing" lawyer - i.e., you want me to be a "real" lawyer, well that's going to cost you some money.

As you note above, most on this forum people are not qualified to give legal advice. some actually give out mistaken advice. including you. you're a lawyer, right? http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif well then, post all your info online for the world to see. I mean, you *are* a lawyer, aren't you? or maybe you are not so sure of everything? http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

I am offering my legal advice for free, to be a nice guy, helping to keep people out of trouble. if my posting is causing you consternation because my interpretation of the law conflicts with yours, you are always free to ignore my opinion. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

LongBch_SigP226
07-04-2005, 1:37 PM
Originally posted by delloro:
when you are on a public roas, the PC says totally unloaded. when you are not on a public road, the PC section above does not apply, but the F&G regs do.

if you want to know whether a particular piece if dirt is a public road or not, just ask the ranger as they will know and they will tell you.

Bah, I wouldn't want to use a lawyer who can't
even spell "roads" and can't even begin the first letter of the sentence in capital letter. You must not be a good lawyer, that's for sure.

delloro
07-04-2005, 2:50 PM
dood that is so crool.

ivanimal
07-09-2005, 2:21 PM
OK boys play nice.