My dad says I can't have his gun by me because its not registered in my name.

[BlueSun]

I don't think thats true, but if someone can point me to a specific law I'd appreciate it.

[domokun]

Please give more background information on this issue.

[hitman13]

Get a handgun safety certificate and then fill out the DOJ form for an inter family transfer. mail the DOJ with the fee (like 19 bucks I think)

thats the gist of it.


ps- he might just not want to give you the pistol.......

[hitman13]

oh yeah and if it is a long arm he can just give it to you ......

[BlueSun]

Get a handgun safety certificate and then fill out the DOJ form for an inter family transfer. mail the DOJ with the fee (like 19 bucks I think)

thats the gist of it.


ps- he might just not want to give you the pistol.......

Thats such BS. Bureaucracy at its finest.

Anyway, its a revolver. I wanted to take it to a local gun store to get grips for it, but he said I'd get in trouble since I'm not supposed to have it by me.

[SJgunguy24]

Thats such BS. Bureaucracy at its finest.

Anyway, its a revolver. I wanted to take it to a local gun store to get grips for it, but he said I'd get in trouble since I'm not supposed to have it by me.

Age? Do you have a HSC? BS it may be, but it's the law.

[MR.R]

get a job and buy your own gun!

[CLUTCH]

can u be any less informative on this issue? lol

[BlueSun]

21, do not have HSC as I have not purchased a gun yet. I have enough money and will in the near future purchase a Kimber Custom II with Night Sights for myself.

What more information do you need?

[HkUSP45]

Take the grip off and bring it to the gunstore. Match up the grip you intend to purchase. problem solved.

[johnthomas]

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2007.pdf
Go to page 37
• Infrequent loans of firearms between persons who are personally known to each other for any
lawful purpose, if the loan does not exceed 30 days in duration. (Penal Code § 12078(d).)

[domokun]

21, do not have HSC as I have not purchased a gun yet. I have enough money and will in the near future purchase a Kimber Custom II with Night Sights for myself.

What more information do you need?

Just get the HSC and then your Dad can legally loan you the handgun to take to the store or the range. Just transport it locked and unloaded and you'll be fine.

[Quiet]

Just get the HSC and then your Dad can legally loan you the handgun to take to the store or the range. Just transport it locked and unloaded and you'll be fine.

What he said.


Penal Code 12078
(d)(1) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent loan of firearms between persons who are personally known to each other for any lawful purpose, if the loan does not exceed 30 days in duration and, when the firearm is a handgun, commencing January 1, 2003, the individual being loaned the handgun has a valid handgun safety certificate.

[bigcalidave]

You're forgetting it's a father son thing, here is another quote which took forever to find ( I hate the sheer NUMBER of laws in this ****ing state)

3) Paragraph (3) of subdivision (a), and subdivision (d), of
Section 12072, and subdivision (b) of Section 12801 shall not apply
to the loan of a handgun to a minor by his or her parent or legal
guardian if both of the following circumstances exist:
(A) The minor is being loaned the firearm for the purposes of
engaging in a lawful, recreational sport, including, but not limited
to, competitive shooting, or agricultural, ranching, or hunting
activity, or a motion picture, television, or video production, or
entertainment or theatrical event, the nature of which involves the
use of a firearm.
(B) The duration of the loan does not exceed the amount of time
that is reasonably necessary to engage in the lawful, recreational
sport, including, but not limited to, competitive shooting, or
agricultural, ranching, or hunting activity, or a motion picture,
television, or video production, or entertainment or theatrical
event, the nature of which involves the use of a firearm.


That precludes the HSC.

[motorhead]

with a hsc you can borrow. w/o not. up to 30 days iirc. so, actually, you're both wrong. go get the hsc and take him shooting. be a good son and spring for the ammo. father's day is coming up.

[Decoligny]

You're forgetting it's a father son thing, here is another quote which took forever to find ( I hate the sheer NUMBER of laws in this ****ing state)

3) Paragraph (3) of subdivision (a), and subdivision (d), of
Section 12072, and subdivision (b) of Section 12801 shall not apply
to the loan of a handgun to a minor by his or her parent or legal
guardian if both of the following circumstances exist:
(A) The minor is being loaned the firearm for the purposes of
engaging in a lawful, recreational sport, including, but not limited
to, competitive shooting, or agricultural, ranching, or hunting
activity, or a motion picture, television, or video production, or
entertainment or theatrical event, the nature of which involves the
use of a firearm.
(B) The duration of the loan does not exceed the amount of time
that is reasonably necessary to engage in the lawful, recreational
sport, including, but not limited to, competitive shooting, or
agricultural, ranching, or hunting activity, or a motion picture,
television, or video production, or entertainment or theatrical
event, the nature of which involves the use of a firearm.


That precludes the HSC.

He is 21 years old, thus not a minor.

[bigcalidave]

It was late, I had high hopes. Are you stalking me now? You said in the other thread you don't go around posting corrections in threads you aren't involved in.

[Untamed1972]

You have to have an HSC just to borrow a handgun?

[1JimMarch]

Oh lord.

OK, there IS an issue here but I doubt it applies.

First, since this is a father/son transfer, there's no problem at all with the father either giving OR loaning the gun to the son. The son can then do anything legal with it: home defense, transport it to a range (or gun store to get grips) with it UNloaded in a locked container, etc. All good.

The problem comes into play in that the gun isn't registered to him, therefore if he carries it illegally on the street it's a felony, not a misdemeanor. Carry a gun illegally that IS registered to you, and your background is otherwise clean, it's a misdemeanor.

Again: that doesn't apply to the needs the guy has listed so far: home defense, legal transport, etc. This "registration" issue only kicks in if he wants to pack it on the street illegally, likely concealed.

This is why you always want to have at least one handgun "papered" in your name, even if you get all your stuff via in-family transfers or was legally off-paper-transfer prior to the 1991 cutoff (making private party transfers papered at FFLs).

[sv_1]

You have to have an HSC just to borrow a handgun?


How could you possibly be trusted with a weapon of mass destruction without taking this ultra rigorous test? It's for your own good.;)

[stormy_clothing]

so many laws, so much waste of precious time.........

[johnthomas]

Maybe the Dad just doesn't want his son messing with his gun and is making excuses instead of telling him to stay away from his gun. Family relationships
are hard to second guess.

[gravedigger]

Unfortunately, one of the side effects of the ridiculous gun registration laws is that when a gun is registered in a person's name, and that gun is found at a crime scene or WHATEVER, the registered owner of the gun will be the FIRST person answering questions, even if he (or she) had NOTHING to do with the scenario where the gun turned up.

Now, you may be saying, "I'd tell the police that my dad let me take it ..." but that assumes you CAN tell them. If you are lying dead somewhere, and your DAD'S GUN is found on the floor next to you, and for whatever reason you were killed by a bullet fired from THAT gun, you might not be there to vouch for your dad while the lazy prosecutor tries to throw your dad into prison for the rest of his life based on circumstantial evidence, because it is the most expedient thing to do, and requires the least amount of effort on the part of the prosecutor.

A friend I have known for 28 YEARS recently asked me if he could keep my handguns and ammo at his house while I leave town for a week or so to go in search of a new home in America! (read: NOT in California). He and I both feel that the lid on the pressure cooker that contains our fragile civility will blow off at any time, considering the mess that this socialist outpost is in at the moment, with signs of becoming nothing but WORSE in the weeks and months to follow. Even though I know he is completely trustworthy, I am uncomfortable lending guns which are registered in my name to ANYONE when they are out of my immediate observation and access. I think my apprehension stems from a lesson I learned years ago, when I sold a Corvette to a guy who didn't bother to register it into HIS name prior to using it in a bank robbery, kidnapping and murder. A knock on the door revealed a dozen L.A.P.D. cops and sheriff's deputies positioned in my driveway with weapons drawn, officers who were looking for the REGISTERED OWNER of the car. Now, anything in MY name remains in my complete control at all times.

[Glock22Fan]

How could you possibly be trusted with a weapon of mass destruction without taking this ultra rigorous test? It's for your own good.;)


Absolutely. If you haven't passed this test, you can't even know from which part of the gun the bullet emerges or which bit to hold while you pull the trigger.

[luchador768]

Not to be a jerk but is the OP a felon?

If not then all the other advice in the tread is all you need.
Peter

[E Pluribus Unum]

I when push came to shove one would even need an HSC.

After all, they are father and son. One can do an interfamiliar transfer without any paperwork.

The father can gift the gun to his son, the son could use it for an unlimited amount of time and then he could "gift" it back. :)

[Glock22Fan]

I suspect that this is a case of "Father's law" rather than real law. My guess is that the father isn't yet ready to accept that his son is a responsible adult.

[tpuig]

Tell your father to be nice to you. You'll get to decide which retirement home he ends up in... ;-)

[Caiman]

It sounds as if it may just be the fathers mind and nothing else. Convincing may be harder and can bring about family issues. My dad is the same way. He has no more use for his firearms, but he won't sell them to me. Keep in mind, I own far more than he does and have an 03 + COE, prior military and clean record. Perhaps it's an old mindset that he's in, but I can't change it so I accept that that is the way is it.

[Jicko]

I don't think thats true, but if someone can point me to a specific law I'd appreciate it.

They are his guns, so, he can do whatever he wanted with them.

[Librarian]

Along with everything else said, it appears that the father is not aware that registration of handguns is not required.

[E Pluribus Unum]

They are his guns, so, he can do whatever he wanted with them.

Well... not ANYTHING... :)

[BlueSun]

I enjoyed reading the responses on both sides (and no I'm not a felon, nor have I ever committed a crime).

[E Pluribus Unum]

I enjoyed reading the responses on both sides (and no I'm not a felon, nor have I ever committed a crime).

Now you are fibbing. ;)

It is illegal to spit on the sidewalk.

You mean to tell me you have never done 56 in a 55? Or 66-71+ on the freeway?

Now... never been CAUGHT committing a crime I could believe....

[Quiet]

You have to have an HSC just to borrow a handgun?

If the recipiant of the loan has a HSC, then that person can borrow it for a duration not to exceed 30 dyas. [PC 12078(d)(1)]

If the recipiant of the loan does not have a HSC, then that person can borrow it for a duration not to exceed 3 days and the lender has to be with the borrower during the duration of the loan. [PC 12078(d)(2)]


Penal Code 12078
(d)(1) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent loan of firearms between persons who are personally known to each other for any lawful purpose, if the loan does not exceed 30 days in duration and, when the firearm is a handgun, commencing January 1, 2003, the individual being loaned the handgun has a valid handgun safety certificate.
(2) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072, and subdivision (b) of Section 12801 shall not apply to the loan of a firearm where all of the following conditions exist:
(A) The person loaning the firearm is at all times within the presence of the person being loaned the firearm.
(B) The loan is for a lawful purpose.
(C) The loan does not exceed three days in duration.
(D) The individual receiving the firearm is not prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm pursuant to Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code, or by Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code.
(E) The person loaning the firearm is 18 years of age or older.
(F) The person being loaned the firearm is 18 years of age or older.

[bohoki]

who is doing whom a favor?

[leadchucker]

Along with everything else said, it appears that the father is not aware that registration of handguns is not required.

Sheesh! After reading this (and others) thread I was beginning to wonder!
So, a misdemeanor involving a legally owned since 1970, unregistered handgun can jump a person up to a felony just because it is legally unregistered? That's just wrong.

[fairfaxjim]

I when push came to shove one would even need an HSC.

After all, they are father and son. One can do an interfamiliar transfer without any paperwork.

The father can gift the gun to his son, the son could use it for an unlimited amount of time and then he could "gift" it back. :)

True for a longgun, but it sounds like the OP is referring to a handgun. It would still require the notice of transfer to the DOJ and the HSC, for a handgun. At a minimum, the HSC for a loan.

(c)(1) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent transfer of a firearm that is not a handgun by gift, bequest, intestate succession, or other means by one individual to another if both individuals are members of the same immediate family.
(2) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent transfer of a handgun by gift, bequest, intestate succession, or other means by one individual to another if both individuals are members of the same immediate family and all of the following conditions are met:
(A) The person to whom the firearm is transferred shall, within 30 days of taking possession of the firearm, forward by prepaid mail or deliver in person to the Department of Justice, a report that includes information concerning the individual taking possession of the firearm, how title was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm in question. The report forms that individuals complete pursuant to this paragraph shall be provided to them by the Department of Justice.
(B) The person taking title to the firearm shall first obtain a basic firearms safety certificate. If taking possession on or after January 1, 2003, the person taking title to the firearm shall first obtain a handgun safety certificate.
(C) The person receiving the firearm is 18 years of age or older.
(3) As used in this subdivision, "immediate family member" means any one of the following relationships:
(A) Parent and child.
(B) Grandparent and grandchild.

[markw]

Ok, here's one for you. What if a person is HSC exempt? Can they still borrow a handgun? :) Ie, active military, retired military, LEO?

[johnthomas]

Ok, here's one for you. What if a person is HSC exempt? Can they still borrow a handgun? :) Ie, active military, retired military, LEO?
If your exempt from the HSC the same rules would apply for borrowing a handgun as they do for a person that is not exempt but has a HSC.

• Infrequent loans of firearms between persons who are personally known to each other for any
lawful purpose, if the loan does not exceed 30 days in duration. (Penal Code § 12078(d).)
• Loans of a firearm for the purpose of shooting at targets on the premises of a target facility
if the firearm is kept within the premises of the target facility at all times.
(Penal Code § 12078(h).)
• Loans of an unloaded firearm or a firearm loaded with blanks for use solely as a
prop for motion picture, television or other entertainment event. (Penal Code § 12078(s).)
• Loans of a long gun to a licensed hunter for a period of time not to exceed the
hunting season for which the firearm is being used. (Penal Code § 12078(q).)
• Loans to minors by a parent, legal guardian, or grandparent:
- Long guns may be loaned for an indefinite period.
- Handguns may be loaned for the purpose of engaging in a lawful activity, and the loan does not
exceed the period of time necessary to participate in the
activity.

[gunsmith]

what a long thread, so I'll just wonder. ( instead of reading the whole thing)
What does "can not have a gun by me" actually mean?
I think the OP simply needs to acquire some writing skills, I had no idea at all what he was talking about. or what question he was actually asking.
If I had a son who couldn't articulate a legal question, I wouldn't give him my gun either.

[RolinThundr]

How could you possibly be trusted with a weapon of mass destruction without taking this ultra rigorous test? It's for your own good.;)

Absolutely. If you haven't passed this test, you can't even know from which part of the gun the bullet emerges or which bit to hold while you pull the trigger.

I hated the idea of having to pay $25 to take a lame, common sense safety test, especially when I already owned a handgun (moved to CA with it). But I took the time to read the HSC Study Guide and took the test. I missed one question about how long after a felony conviction can you legally possess a gun (nothing to do with safe operation), a question I try to avoid any personal experience with. Fast-forward to some months later when my father-in-law (new to gun ownership) went to take the test, and suddenly I find myself wondering if, by some small chance, the HSC might actually have merit to it. Why you ask? Let me tell you. As my father-in-law is taking the test I am patiently waiting and observing others as they prepare for the shooting range. A guy steps up to the counter to take the HSC test and exclaims that he hopes his 3rd time taking the test would be the charm. I found myself not wanting to be anywhere near the man while he was anywhere near a gun. I do wonder now if the test has any merit to it at all.

[Army]

...unless transporting through a known school zone, a locked case is NOT required.

Unloaded yes. Locked away, no.