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jbean66
02-14-2005, 10:15 AM
Hello,

I need a little clarification. My friend has just started working in Calfornia, but still has his residency in Nevada. He has a just received his CDL. Can I legally by guns that are not on the CA DOJ approved list from him.

Thanks for any info anyone can provide.
Jbean66

jbean66
02-14-2005, 10:15 AM
Hello,

I need a little clarification. My friend has just started working in Calfornia, but still has his residency in Nevada. He has a just received his CDL. Can I legally by guns that are not on the CA DOJ approved list from him.

Thanks for any info anyone can provide.
Jbean66

Colonel Klink
02-14-2005, 10:38 AM
You have apples and oranges. What you are talking about is called a "face to face sale". In order to have a F2F sale of DOJ banned guns both parties eg you and your friend, must be CA residents. As long as your friend appears to be a NV resident the answer is NO.

In NV it is legal to transfer (sell) guns person to person without telling anyone. If I would your friend I would not give up NV residency for anything.

jbean66
02-14-2005, 1:00 PM
He and his family are still residing in Nevada, although he is working in CA as a full time employee. Since working in CA he also has a CA residency. Would he be able to register a gun in CA and then do a private party tranfer in CA.?

bwiese
02-14-2005, 1:55 PM
If he has a CA driver's license or ID w/CA address then I'd bet that's good enough.

Of course that's prob a trigger for CA income tax...

Bill W
San Jose

-hanko
02-14-2005, 9:53 PM
Trigger for the 540 is either his employer withholding or the guy himself, if he is self-employed. He needs to pay the PRK income tax based on what he's earned in the PRK, regardless of his state of residency.

True dual-residency is tricky; do not take somebody's answer (including mine) on a web forum as gospel.

Definitely consult with a CPA and maybe an attorney. amhik http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

-hanko

jnojr
02-15-2005, 10:23 AM
If your friend is able to legally buy guns in NV, great. To bring them to CA, he has to register them with DOJ. If they accept that transfer, great. At that point, the two of you can go to an FFL and do a face-to-face transfer. If the computer in the gun store accepts the transfer (as in, your friend has correct CA ID), great.

IIWY, I'd go for it. By the time you get involved, the legal hurdles are cleared. The worries about the dual-residency thing are your friends worries http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif But this seems like the type of thing that, even if not exactly 100% technically "correct", is likely to work anyway, and be a done deal.

The question your friend would want answered would be "What happens if I attempt to register guns I bought in NV and CA doesn't recognize my right to own them?" Since he registers them by mail, it seems to me he'd get a letter back saying "No way, Jose" and he'd have to get them back across the state line. There is a possibility a field agent or the police might show up, but not a huge one... as much as we like to picture CA and our DOJ as being Fascists waiting for an opportunity to deprive us of our rights, they're a huge bureaucracy that commonly can't communicate with itself.

You or your friend could call or email DOJ and ask about the legality of your friend importing guns he buys in NV, but the answer you'll get is not going to be definitive or even binding... a DOJ agent could say "Sure, no problem!" in writing, you do it, and then you get a visit... http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-hanko
02-15-2005, 4:58 PM
Help me understand why atf would not call this a strawman sale. Poster's friend buy's guns out of state with the intention to sell them to the poster.

Actually, buying out of state is not relevent insofar as federal law is concerned.

-hanko

Mike Searson
02-15-2005, 5:42 PM
A straw purchase would be if his friend bought the guns in NV and gave them to him without going through an FFL to do the second transfer.

Since the gun in question would be done through the DROS system it is not a straw purchase.

I know the concept seems kind of alien to people who say have never lived in Free America, but let's you're a Florida resident. You live in Miami and you're visiting the Panhandle. You see a pistol in a shop that your buddy in Miami has been looking for...you can buy the pistol drive back to Miami and give it to your buddy. You don't need to go through an FFL!

Now, if your buddy is a convicted felon...or in any way prohibited from legally buying a firearm, that would be a straw purchase...like the little old lady in San Leandro who was buying guns at Traders for all those nice young fellas that couldn't be bothered with paperwork.

As long as the final transaction is done through a CA FFL and our state's illegal DROS system...there is no problem.

glockwise2000
01-24-2009, 12:15 AM
How do you get a dual residency anyways?

Say for example, I am PRKn and I got a dual residency to NV. Then that means I can buy any handgun/pistol in NV. Now, if I want to bring that firearm to CA, all I need to do is file the handgun to CADOJ even it is not in the roster of cert handguns?

What are the odds that I will get approved? Do I wait for the approval or denial letter in the mail?

I have long wanted to do this and any shared knowledge would be great.

Quiet
01-24-2009, 2:38 AM
What constitutes residency in a State?

The State of residence is the State in which an individual is present; the individual also must have an intention of making a home in that State. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. If a member of the Armed Forces maintains a home in one State and the member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby State to which he or she commutes each day, then the member has two States of residence and may purchase a firearm in either the State where the duty station is located or the State where the home is maintained. An alien who is legally in the United States is considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in that State and has resided in that State continuously for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale of the firearm. See also Item 5, “Sales to Aliens in the United States,” in the General Information section of this publication.

[18 U.S.C. 921(b), 922(a) (3), and 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.11]


May a person (who is not an alien) who resides in one State and owns property in another State purchase a handgun in either State?

If a person maintains a home in 2 States and resides in both States for certain periods of the year, he or she may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular State, purchase a handgun in that State. However, simply owning property in another State does not qualify the person to purchase a handgun in that State.

[27 CFR 478.11]

Ford8N
01-24-2009, 5:50 AM
What constitutes residency in a State?

The State of residence is the State in which an individual is present; the individual also must have an intention of making a home in that State. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. If a member of the Armed Forces maintains a home in one State and the member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby State to which he or she commutes each day, then the member has two States of residence and may purchase a firearm in either the State where the duty station is located or the State where the home is maintained. An alien who is legally in the United States is considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in that State and has resided in that State continuously for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale of the firearm. See also Item 5, “Sales to Aliens in the United States,” in the General Information section of this publication.

[18 U.S.C. 921(b), 922(a) (3), and 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.11]


May a person (who is not an alien) who resides in one State and owns property in another State purchase a handgun in either State?

If a person maintains a home in 2 States and resides in both States for certain periods of the year, he or she may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular State, purchase a handgun in that State. However, simply owning property in another State does not qualify the person to purchase a handgun in that State.

[27 CFR 478.11]

This is the key statement.

If I was your friend, I would do everything possible to maintain a NV Id. With a CA Id, you give up your freedom.

Jaguar4523
01-25-2009, 2:01 AM
I used to live in Phoenix. My old roommate still lives there. I visit pretty regularly and oftentimes we have discussed how easy it is to buy a gun there versus here in California. I don't have an Arizona I.D., but getting one is no problem. If I maintained a home in AZ with my old roommate, and I had an Arizona I.D. could I buy a CA legal gun there and then just fill out the form when I brought it into California? It almost seems too good to be true.

Seesm
01-25-2009, 2:09 AM
I used to live in Phoenix. My old roommate still lives there. I visit pretty regularly and oftentimes we have discussed how easy it is to buy a gun there versus here in California. I don't have an Arizona I.D., but getting one is no problem. If I maintained a home in AZ with my old roommate, and I had an Arizona I.D. could I buy a CA legal gun there and then just fill out the form when I brought it into California? It almost seems too good to be true.

maybe so...

Quiet
01-25-2009, 4:26 AM
I used to live in Phoenix. My old roommate still lives there. I visit pretty regularly and oftentimes we have discussed how easy it is to buy a gun there versus here in California. I don't have an Arizona I.D., but getting one is no problem. If I maintained a home in AZ with my old roommate, and I had an Arizona I.D. could I buy a CA legal gun there and then just fill out the form when I brought it into California? It almost seems too good to be true.

You need to live in AZ, not just maintain a home.

Read the ATF FAQ.

May a person (who is not an alien) who resides in one State and owns property in another State purchase a handgun in either State?

If a person maintains a home in 2 States and resides in both States for certain periods of the year, he or she may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular State, purchase a handgun in that State. However, simply owning property in another State does not qualify the person to purchase a handgun in that State.

[27 CFR 478.11]

DDT
01-25-2009, 7:27 AM
If your friend is able to legally buy guns in NV, great. To bring them to CA, he has to register them with DOJ. If they accept that transfer, great. At that point, the two of you can go to an FFL and do a face-to-face transfer. If the computer in the gun store accepts the transfer (as in, your friend has correct CA ID), great.


This is only true for handguns. There is no requirement for vol reg of long arms personally imported. Also, if the DOJ has an issue with a handgun imported and pays your friend a visit they will track down the firearm.


A straw purchase would be if his friend bought the guns in NV and gave them to him without going through an FFL to do the second transfer.


This is not completely accurate. Transferring a handgun without going through an FFL is not a straw purchase unless the ultimate owner is a prohibited person. Not using an FFL to do a PPT is a wholly separate felony in CA.

JagerTroop
03-21-2010, 10:24 PM
You need to live in AZ, not just maintain a home.

Read the ATF FAQ.

May a person (who is not an alien) who resides in one State and owns property in another State purchase a handgun in either State?

If a person maintains a home in 2 States and resides in both States for certain periods of the year, he or she may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular State, purchase a handgun in that State. However, simply owning property in another State does not qualify the person to purchase a handgun in that State.

[27 CFR 478.11]

How do you figure? You used the same exact language in your attempt to tell him NO, as the language of the law telling him YES.

If he "maintains a home" in both states, he should be good to go. "However, simply owning property in another state, does not qualify the person to purchase a handgun in that State".

cj cake
03-21-2010, 11:02 PM
Each state has their own rules regarding residency in that state. Here's an example (hypothetical scenario):
I live and work in California nine month out of the year. I work as a school teacher. During my vacation time, I move to Nevada and live there for the remaining three months. I do not own a home or property in Nevada. I do live in a trailer that I rent or bring with me to Nv. I park that trailer in a trailer park and live there for the time I visit Nv. I may even live in a tent in a KOA. As long as I do not work in Nv, or pay any taxes in Nv, and live there for more than 31 consecutive days, I am a Nv resident. I then go to the Nv. DMV to get my seasonal resident ID. Now, while I am living in Nv, I may purchase firearms in Nv. because I am a resident of that state during that time.

lehn20
03-22-2010, 1:33 AM
So hypothetically, if you are CA/AZ dual resident and bought SBRs, full auto weapons and suppressors in AZ,(if you owned a house there) you would be ok as long as you left them AZ right?.

How would that work for training scenarios. Right now by CA law, anyone from out of state can bring SBRs etc into CA for the duration of training courses. So if you were dual resident and were taking a CA course, you could do this also?.

cltitus
03-22-2010, 2:11 AM
So hypothetically, if you are CA/AZ dual resident and bought SBRs, full auto weapons and suppressors in AZ,(if you owned a house there) you would be ok as long as you left them AZ right?.

How would that work for training scenarios. Right now by CA law, anyone from out of state can bring SBRs etc into CA for the duration of training courses. So if you were dual resident and were taking a CA course, you could do this also?.

Yes, Since Weapons are not on California Soil.

As for courses, depends some facilities have to have proper permits to hold the classes. Even some require to be LE or Federal Employee to attend course in California.

Can't wait for a new Governor that isn't such a political tool.

Grumpyoldretiredcop
03-22-2010, 12:18 PM
Each state has their own rules regarding residency in that state. Here's an example (hypothetical scenario):
I live and work in California nine month out of the year. I work as a school teacher. During my vacation time, I move to Nevada and live there for the remaining three months. I do not own a home or property in Nevada. I do live in a trailer that I rent or bring with me to Nv. I park that trailer in a trailer park and live there for the time I visit Nv. I may even live in a tent in a KOA. As long as I do not work in Nv, or pay any taxes in Nv, and live there for more than 31 consecutive days, I am a Nv resident. I then go to the Nv. DMV to get my seasonal resident ID. Now, while I am living in Nv, I may purchase firearms in Nv. because I am a resident of that state during that time.

Apparently, that's no longer the case. :( Link (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=279851)

Quiet
03-22-2010, 4:07 PM
Each state has their own rules regarding residency in that state. Here's an example (hypothetical scenario):
I live and work in California nine month out of the year. I work as a school teacher. During my vacation time, I move to Nevada and live there for the remaining three months. I do not own a home or property in Nevada. I do live in a trailer that I rent or bring with me to Nv. I park that trailer in a trailer park and live there for the time I visit Nv. I may even live in a tent in a KOA. As long as I do not work in Nv, or pay any taxes in Nv, and live there for more than 31 consecutive days, I am a Nv resident. I then go to the Nv. DMV to get my seasonal resident ID. Now, while I am living in Nv, I may purchase firearms in Nv. because I am a resident of that state during that time.

As of 02-01-2010, the NV Seasonal ID is no longer valid for firearm transfers in NV.

NV DPS is instructing NV FFL dealers to no longer accept NV Seasonal IDs for firearm transfers, because a NV seasonal resident is not considered a resident of NV. [NRS 482.103]



Nevada Revised Statue 482.103
1. “Resident” includes, but is not limited to, a person:
(a) Whose legal residence is in the State of Nevada.
(b) Who engages in intrastate business and operates in such a business any motor vehicle, trailer or semitrailer, or any person maintaining such vehicles in this State, as the home state of such vehicles.
(c) Who physically resides in this State and engages in a trade, profession, occupation or accepts gainful employment in this State.
(d) Who declares that he or she is a resident of Nevada for purposes of obtaining privileges not ordinarily extended to nonresidents of this State.
2. The term does not include a person who is an actual tourist, an out-of-state student, a border state employee or a seasonal resident.
3. The provisions of this section do not apply to persons who operate vehicles in this State under the provisions of NRS 482.385, 482.390, 482.395 or 706.801 to 706.861, inclusive.

cj cake
03-22-2010, 10:20 PM
Oh No!:no:

JayBeeJay
03-26-2010, 6:26 PM
Is that for complete firearms? Would OLL's be restricted as well?

AfricanHunter
03-26-2010, 10:52 PM
You need to live in AZ, not just maintain a home.

Read the ATF FAQ.

May a person (who is not an alien) who resides in one State and owns property in another State purchase a handgun in either State?

If a person maintains a home in 2 States and resides in both States for certain periods of the year, he or she may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular State, purchase a handgun in that State. However, simply owning property in another State does not qualify the person to purchase a handgun in that State.

[27 CFR 478.11]

So how would you actually buy a handgun in both states? When you get a license in state B, they destroy your original license from State A(at least typically). Would keeping, say, a NV DL but getting a CA ID card be sufficient to purchase a firearm in either state?

munkeeboi
03-27-2010, 1:12 AM
Don't believe you can get a state ID while holding a DL in another state unless you fall under the dual resident classification

Hersir
04-17-2010, 9:13 AM
I've been following a number of threads on this topic on different boards and thought I'd share what I know on the subject of Nevada Seasonal Resident ID cards as it relates to firearm purchases and multi-state firearm purchases in general (what some refer to as dual-residency).

For those who spend 31 consecutive days or more in Nevada each year you can apply for a Seasonal Resident ID card. You cannot earn any money in Nevada if you have a Seasonal Resident ID card and it's intended for those that vacation or otherwise spend considerable time there each year so they can have a local ID. It allows you to keep your driver license from whatever state you are actually a resident of. It does not make you a resident of Nevada.

Nevada DPS is the organization that conducts Brady checks for Nevada firearm purchasers. In the past Nevada approved 4473 transfers for Seasonal Resident ID card holders but ceased this at the end of February 2010. Nevada cited NRS 482.103 as the reason because that section states that Seasonal Resident ID card holders are not residents of Nevada.

There's a lot of confusion about being a resident of a state versus your state of residency for the purpose of 4473 transfers and firearm purchases. While being a resident of a state (working, paying taxes, voting, driver license) is certainly sufficient to establish that state is your state of residence for purposes of firearms purchases, you can have more than one state of residence --but only be a resident of one state.

Just take a look at Form 4473. Question 13 asks your state of residence and even provides a definition in the instructions section that refers you to 27 CFR Part 478.11. It doesn't ask what state you are a resident of. There's a big difference here that is lost on most people.

An example is given in the instructions on the 4473 (and included in the full CFR section) in which a person maintains a home in more than one state and spends time at these homes (weekends and holidays in one and most other time at another). Your state of residence can be either state where you maintain a home when you actually make the purchase or transfer. It's a test of the actual level of contact you have with a particular state, not where you necessarily have a driver license.

So, for those that maintain a primary home in one state, and say a vacation home in Nevada where you spend holidays, weekends, and vacation time you would meet the definition under 27 CFR Part 478.11 for Nevada to be your state of residence when purchasing a firearm in Nevada. Of course, firearms purchased in one state could not be brought into the another state unless legal under state and federal law. Theoretically, a person could have many states of residence for the purpose of firearms purchases (using the definition provided in the CFR) but can only be the resident of one state (driver license).

Not many people are aware of these distinctions (including some in BATFE and many FFLs). Mere possession of a Seasonal Resident ID card is not sufficient to establish that Nevada is a state of residence absent the ability to prove you maintain a home in the state--perhaps through rental agreements, property tax records, utility bills, etc. So, Nevada DPS is correct on this point.

The problem is there's no mechanism in place to establish your state of residence so we've all become accustomed to showing what state we're a resident of using a driver license or ID card--which are only issued to residents as defined by state law. This didn't use to be much of an issue as there were not many people who maintained homes in multiple states. Today, however, with large numbers of Baby Boomers retiring and buying second homes and mobile professionals maintaining homes in more than state, this is more common. This issue is starting to affect more and more firearm owners and establishing a mechanism and educating FFLs and BATFE (and the Nevada DPS) about this will be difficult.

Consider military personnel. They're allowed to purchase firearms in the state in which they have permament change of station orders even though they may still maintain their driver license from another state. It's in 27 CFR Part 478.11 as well.

So, the question becomes how do we educate BATFE, FFLs and others about this and establish a way to demonstrate our state of residence.

For reference, here's the actual info from BATFE's website:

Q: What constitutes residency in a State?
The State of residence is the State in which an individual is present; the individual also must have an intention of making a home in that State. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. If a member of the Armed Forces maintains a home in one State and the member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby State to which he or she commutes each day, then the member has two States of residence and may purchase a firearm in either the State where the duty station is located or the State where the home is maintained. An alien who is legally in the United States is considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in that State and has resided in that State continuously for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale of the firearm. See also Item 5, “Sales to Aliens in the United States,” in the General Information section of this publication.

[18 U.S.C. 921(b), 922(a) (3), and 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.11]

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html

And 27 CFR Part 478.11:

State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. An alien who is legally in the United States shall be considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in the State and has resided in the State for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale or delivery of a firearm. The following are examples that illustrate this definition:

Example 1. A maintains a home in State X. A travels to State Y on a hunting, fishing, business, or other type of trip. A does not become a resident of State Y by reason of such trip.

Example 2. A is a U.S. citizen and maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.

Example 3. A, an alien, travels on vacation or on a business trip to State X. Regardless of the length of time A spends in State X, A does not have a State of residence in State X. This is because A does not have a home in State X at which he has resided for at least 90 days.