Dual Residency

[jbean66]

Hello,

I need a little clarification. My friend has just started working in Calfornia, but still has his residency in Nevada. He has a just received his CDL. Can I legally by guns that are not on the CA DOJ approved list from him.

Thanks for any info anyone can provide.
Jbean66

[jbean66]

Hello,

I need a little clarification. My friend has just started working in Calfornia, but still has his residency in Nevada. He has a just received his CDL. Can I legally by guns that are not on the CA DOJ approved list from him.

Thanks for any info anyone can provide.
Jbean66

[Colonel Klink]

You have apples and oranges. What you are talking about is called a "face to face sale". In order to have a F2F sale of DOJ banned guns both parties eg you and your friend, must be CA residents. As long as your friend appears to be a NV resident the answer is NO.

In NV it is legal to transfer (sell) guns person to person without telling anyone. If I would your friend I would not give up NV residency for anything.

[jbean66]

He and his family are still residing in Nevada, although he is working in CA as a full time employee. Since working in CA he also has a CA residency. Would he be able to register a gun in CA and then do a private party tranfer in CA.?

[bwiese]

If he has a CA driver's license or ID w/CA address then I'd bet that's good enough.

Of course that's prob a trigger for CA income tax...

Bill W
San Jose

[-hanko]

Trigger for the 540 is either his employer withholding or the guy himself, if he is self-employed. He needs to pay the PRK income tax based on what he's earned in the PRK, regardless of his state of residency.

True dual-residency is tricky; do not take somebody's answer (including mine) on a web forum as gospel.

Definitely consult with a CPA and maybe an attorney. amhik http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

-hanko

[jnojr]

If your friend is able to legally buy guns in NV, great. To bring them to CA, he has to register them with DOJ. If they accept that transfer, great. At that point, the two of you can go to an FFL and do a face-to-face transfer. If the computer in the gun store accepts the transfer (as in, your friend has correct CA ID), great.

IIWY, I'd go for it. By the time you get involved, the legal hurdles are cleared. The worries about the dual-residency thing are your friends worries http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif But this seems like the type of thing that, even if not exactly 100% technically "correct", is likely to work anyway, and be a done deal.

The question your friend would want answered would be "What happens if I attempt to register guns I bought in NV and CA doesn't recognize my right to own them?" Since he registers them by mail, it seems to me he'd get a letter back saying "No way, Jose" and he'd have to get them back across the state line. There is a possibility a field agent or the police might show up, but not a huge one... as much as we like to picture CA and our DOJ as being Fascists waiting for an opportunity to deprive us of our rights, they're a huge bureaucracy that commonly can't communicate with itself.

You or your friend could call or email DOJ and ask about the legality of your friend importing guns he buys in NV, but the answer you'll get is not going to be definitive or even binding... a DOJ agent could say "Sure, no problem!" in writing, you do it, and then you get a visit... http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[-hanko]

Help me understand why atf would not call this a strawman sale. Poster's friend buy's guns out of state with the intention to sell them to the poster.

Actually, buying out of state is not relevent insofar as federal law is concerned.

-hanko

[Mike Searson]

A straw purchase would be if his friend bought the guns in NV and gave them to him without going through an FFL to do the second transfer.

Since the gun in question would be done through the DROS system it is not a straw purchase.

I know the concept seems kind of alien to people who say have never lived in Free America, but let's you're a Florida resident. You live in Miami and you're visiting the Panhandle. You see a pistol in a shop that your buddy in Miami has been looking for...you can buy the pistol drive back to Miami and give it to your buddy. You don't need to go through an FFL!

Now, if your buddy is a convicted felon...or in any way prohibited from legally buying a firearm, that would be a straw purchase...like the little old lady in San Leandro who was buying guns at Traders for all those nice young fellas that couldn't be bothered with paperwork.

As long as the final transaction is done through a CA FFL and our state's illegal DROS system...there is no problem.

[glockwise2000]

How do you get a dual residency anyways?

Say for example, I am PRKn and I got a dual residency to NV. Then that means I can buy any handgun/pistol in NV. Now, if I want to bring that firearm to CA, all I need to do is file the handgun to CADOJ even it is not in the roster of cert handguns?

What are the odds that I will get approved? Do I wait for the approval or denial letter in the mail?

I have long wanted to do this and any shared knowledge would be great.

[Quiet]

What constitutes residency in a State?

The State of residence is the State in which an individual is present; the individual also must have an intention of making a home in that State. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. If a member of the Armed Forces maintains a home in one State and the member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby State to which he or she commutes each day, then the member has two States of residence and may purchase a firearm in either the State where the duty station is located or the State where the home is maintained. An alien who is legally in the United States is considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in that State and has resided in that State continuously for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale of the firearm. See also Item 5, “Sales to Aliens in the United States,” in the General Information section of this publication.

[18 U.S.C. 921(b), 922(a) (3), and 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.11]


May a person (who is not an alien) who resides in one State and owns property in another State purchase a handgun in either State?

If a person maintains a home in 2 States and resides in both States for certain periods of the year, he or she may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular State, purchase a handgun in that State. However, simply owning property in another State does not qualify the person to purchase a handgun in that State.

[27 CFR 478.11]

[Ford8N]

What constitutes residency in a State?

The State of residence is the State in which an individual is present; the individual also must have an intention of making a home in that State. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. If a member of the Armed Forces maintains a home in one State and the member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby State to which he or she commutes each day, then the member has two States of residence and may purchase a firearm in either the State where the duty station is located or the State where the home is maintained. An alien who is legally in the United States is considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in that State and has resided in that State continuously for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale of the firearm. See also Item 5, “Sales to Aliens in the United States,” in the General Information section of this publication.

[18 U.S.C. 921(b), 922(a) (3), and 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.11]


May a person (who is not an alien) who resides in one State and owns property in another State purchase a handgun in either State?

If a person maintains a home in 2 States and resides in both States for certain periods of the year, he or she may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular State, purchase a handgun in that State. However, simply owning property in another State does not qualify the person to purchase a handgun in that State.

[27 CFR 478.11]

This is the key statement.

If I was your friend, I would do everything possible to maintain a NV Id. With a CA Id, you give up your freedom.

[Jaguar4523]

I used to live in Phoenix. My old roommate still lives there. I visit pretty regularly and oftentimes we have discussed how easy it is to buy a gun there versus here in California. I don't have an Arizona I.D., but getting one is no problem. If I maintained a home in AZ with my old roommate, and I had an Arizona I.D. could I buy a CA legal gun there and then just fill out the form when I brought it into California? It almost seems too good to be true.

[Seesm]

I used to live in Phoenix. My old roommate still lives there. I visit pretty regularly and oftentimes we have discussed how easy it is to buy a gun there versus here in California. I don't have an Arizona I.D., but getting one is no problem. If I maintained a home in AZ with my old roommate, and I had an Arizona I.D. could I buy a CA legal gun there and then just fill out the form when I brought it into California? It almost seems too good to be true.

maybe so...

[Quiet]

I used to live in Phoenix. My old roommate still lives there. I visit pretty regularly and oftentimes we have discussed how easy it is to buy a gun there versus here in California. I don't have an Arizona I.D., but getting one is no problem. If I maintained a home in AZ with my old roommate, and I had an Arizona I.D. could I buy a CA legal gun there and then just fill out the form when I brought it into California? It almost seems too good to be true.

You need to live in AZ, not just maintain a home.

Read the ATF FAQ.

May a person (who is not an alien) who resides in one State and owns property in another State purchase a handgun in either State?

If a person maintains a home in 2 States and resides in both States for certain periods of the year, he or she may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular State, purchase a handgun in that State. However, simply owning property in another State does not qualify the person to purchase a handgun in that State.

[27 CFR 478.11]

[DDT]

If your friend is able to legally buy guns in NV, great. To bring them to CA, he has to register them with DOJ. If they accept that transfer, great. At that point, the two of you can go to an FFL and do a face-to-face transfer. If the computer in the gun store accepts the transfer (as in, your friend has correct CA ID), great.


This is only true for handguns. There is no requirement for vol reg of long arms personally imported. Also, if the DOJ has an issue with a handgun imported and pays your friend a visit they will track down the firearm.


A straw purchase would be if his friend bought the guns in NV and gave them to him without going through an FFL to do the second transfer.


This is not completely accurate. Transferring a handgun without going through an FFL is not a straw purchase unless the ultimate owner is a prohibited person. Not using an FFL to do a PPT is a wholly separate felony in CA.