is 'cash-n-carry' legal in CA

[rogdigity]

a guy wants to buy a rifle from me but wants to do cash and carry. i have been wanting to get a C&R for it at least just so i dont piss off the atf (theyre already a little grumpy with me). so how is it legal to sell to private party without doing a dealer transfer, what do i need from him, what do i need to give him, what do i put in my C&R book, and how do i go about the whole thing?

[RP1911]

If it is a C&R, a copy of his driver's license would be fine with a signed statement that he is not prohibited from owning firearms.

On the other hand, you may want to walk away from this transaction even if it is C&R.

If it isn't C&R, then run.

[rogdigity]

then how is it that everyone i know with guns tells me 'oh i got this cash and carry' without the background checks and waiting periods. i bought the rifle with my C&R but the other guy doesnt have his C&R. that and he is from texas but stationed here

[rabagley]

If the rifle is more than 50 years old, then cash and carry is fine. If either party is a C&R then they will also have to log it in their books (but that's pretty much all of the paperwork needed).

[RP1911]

Prior to 1991 (maybe 1990 - don't remember the exact year), cash and carry was legal without going through an FFL between private parties.

Like rabagley said, if it is over 50 years old, the buyer does not need a C&R.

[rogdigity]

forgive me for repeating myself, but what do i need to do and get from the other party though

[fairfaxjim]

forgive me for repeating myself, but what do i need to do and get from the other party though

1. Since you seem to want to do it anyway, pay your money and take your chances. Most likely illegal and not recommended.
2. Do some research, read the PC - its on the DOJ website, along with some FAQ stuff. That way you can be responsible for your own fate, not depending on some yahoo like me on the internet. It's a lot better if you can cite or produce the appropriate PC if there is ever a question than if you answer "this guy fairfaxjim on some web site said it was good to go."
3. Research the rifle and determine whether it qualifies as a C&R that is ok for FTF transfer, then apply the law your found in #2.
4. Go with the website guys. The basic rule here is it must be 50 years or older. Get the rifle and give the man his money. If it isn't, you have to do a Private Party Transfer using a licensed FFL dealer.

[rogdigity]

dude, do you not read the writing? the guy wants to buy it FROM ME

im not buying anything. every one of my firearms has been dros'd or C&R

[bwiese]

then how is it that everyone i know with guns tells me 'oh i got this cash and carry' without the background checks and waiting periods.

If they're in CA and the guns are not C&Rs, they are generally criminals.

(There are very limited exceptions for lineal intrafamily transfers, estate/inheritance situations, and 'operation of law' matters.)

i bought the rifle with my C&R but the other guy doesnt have his C&R. that and he is from texas but stationed hereFor non-C&R guns, Texas has different rules from CA.

dude, do you not read the writing? the guy wants to buy it FROM ME

For non-C&R modern gun, that's irrelevant. If you're doing the xfer paper-free in CA, you are participating in a crime of illegal firearms transfer (i.e, not going thru a CA FFL dealer).

[RP1911]

Please re-read my first post. the answers are there.

I'll add: If it is not a C&R you need to transfer via FFL. If he insists on Cash and Carry. Don't do it!


ETA: It has to go through an FFL since he is from Texas.

[fairfaxjim]

dude, do you not read the writing? the guy wants to buy it FROM ME

im not buying anything. every one of my firearms has been dros'd or C&R

Dude it works both ways - buying or selling is a crime if you don't do it right!! Read the freaking laws before you go beserk!

[rogdigity]

its definately C&R. its 1903 with a serial number from 1918

[Mssr. Eleganté]

If the firearm is a C&R rifle or shotgun that is at least 50 years old then it is perfectly legal for you to sell it to the guy. California law says that C&R long guns over 50 years old are exempt from any California requirements for Dealer transfers, as long as neither party is a California licensed Dealer.

Since you are a Licensed Collector it is even legal for you to sell it to somebody from Texas, as long as they come to your licensed premises for the transfer. But you say the guy is stationed here in California. If he is in the military with orders showing his permanent duty station as being in California then you can treat him a as a California resident and sell the gun to him at a location other than your licensed premises.

You will need to record the buyer's info in your bound book, including his DL number.

[rogdigity]

If the firearm is a C&R rifle or shotgun that is at least 50 years old then it is perfectly legal for you to sell it to the guy. California law says that C&R long guns are exempt from any California requirements for Dealer transfers, as long as neither party is a California licensed Dealer.

Since you are a Licensed Collector it is even legal for you to sell it to somebody from Texas, as long as they come to your licensed premises for the transfer. But you say the guy is stationed here in California. If he is in the military with orders showing his permanent duty station as being in California then you can treat him a as a California resident and sell the gun to him at a location other than your licensed premises.

You will need to record the buyer's info in your bound book, including his DL number.



wow, thats what i was looking for. a straight forward yes or no. thank you. thats all i need

[bluestaterebel]

If the firearm is a C&R rifle or shotgun that is at least 50 years old then it is perfectly legal for you to sell it to the guy. California law says that C&R long guns over 50 years old are exempt from any California requirements for Dealer transfers, as long as neither party is a California licensed Dealer.

I have been trying to find this Penal Code. Where can i find this law?

[Mssr. Eleganté]

I have been trying to find this Penal Code. Where can i find this law?

It's in the California Penal Code, Section 12078(t)(2)...

Subdivision (d) and paragraph (1) of subdivision (f) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm that is not a handgun, which is a curio or relic manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or its successor.

The "Subdivision (d) ... of Section 12072" referenced in the above quote is the section of the California Penal Code requiring people in Califonia to complete most firearms transfers through a California Licensed Dealer. So 12078(t)(2) is saying those transfer requirements shall not apply if the firearm is a 50+ year old C&R long gun.

[rogdigity]

found it

CPC 12072 (d) Where neither party to the transaction holds a dealer's license issued pursuant to Section 12071, the parties to the transaction shall complete the sale, loan, or transfer of that firearm through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Section 12082.

CPC 12078 (t)(2)(2) Subdivision (d) and paragraph (1) of subdivision (f) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm that is not a handgun, which is a curio or relic manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or its successor.

[bluestaterebel]

It's in the California Penal Code, Section 12078(t)(2)...



The "Subdivision (d) ... of Section 12072" referenced in the above quote is the section of the California Penal Code requiring people in Califonia to complete most firearms transfers through a California Licensed Dealer. So 12078(t)(2) is saying those transfer requirements shall not apply if the firearm is a 50+ year old C&R long gun.

Cool, thats good to know thanks for posting it.