PDA

View Full Version : NYPD seeks way to let guns 'talk' to one another


Legasat
06-10-2009, 10:43 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090605/ap_on_re_us/us_cop_shoots_cop

By COLLEEN LONG, Associated Press Writer Colleen Long, Associated Press Writer Fri Jun 5, 5:39 pm ET
NEW YORK The New York Police Department is looking into adapting futuristic technology that would allow officers' guns to recognize one another in an effort to avoid the type of friendly fire that left a cop dead last week.

Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly asked his inner circle to compile a list of department initiatives that would help prevent confrontations between fellow officers. Omar J. Edwards, 25, was killed May 28 as he chased a burglary suspect. Edwards had just left work and was dressed in street clothes and had his service weapon drawn. Three plainclothes detectives came upon the scene. When Edwards turned after Officer Andrew Dunton yelled for him to stop, he was shot, according to the NYPD.

On Friday, Paul Browne, the deputy commissioner for public information at the NYPD, said the department is talking with the Pacific Northwest National Laboratory about the possibility of tailoring technology for the department.

One idea involves the use of radio frequency tags that would allow officers to pinpoint where other cops are in the city, Browne said. Another involves tags that would work gun-to-gun and use an infrared sensor: When a weapon is pulled from an officer's holster it would trigger a signal that would be sent to the gun of a nearby officer. The signal may be seen or heard.

The research is preliminary. A spokesman for the federal lab said some of the ideas floated by the department, like the use of radio frequency tags, may not work.

"We are scheduled to talk with the department next week," said Pacific Northwest National Laboratory spokesman Geoff Harvey. "Up for discussion will be ideas, capabilities and their limitations. ... 'Why won't this work?' will likely be part of the talk."

The suggestions were among a list sent to city leaders. It also included suggestions on training, such as updating the training video for officers, conducting a firearms refresher course and offering training specific to undercover officers.

Also, the department suggested having anti-crime officers visit and introduce themselves to officers. Officer Andrew Dunton, who fired the shots that killed Edwards, was a member of the anti-crime unit along with the two other officers at the scene.

Edwards, who was posthumously promoted to detective, was buried Thursday. The investigation into the incident is continuing. Dunton has been placed on administrative duty.

Is it just me or does it seem that are 1000's of ways for this to go wrong?

derwiking
06-10-2009, 11:04 AM
Not to get all :TFH:, but, RFIDs... Bad news man. Any technology commonly used in the civilian world finds a home first in the military or law enforcement. Certain industries have been trying to push RFIDs for awhile to no avail(they are used however on animals for tracking), but this might make the break.

Pistolwhipped
06-10-2009, 11:10 AM
Before this ever go into effect the "bad guys" would have a frequency jammer or something that would protect them and not the cops:mnl: way to go aholes. lol

Tyrius
06-10-2009, 12:45 PM
I love that, "Why This Won't Work," is one of the talking points.

This seems like the kind of thing where the answer is more training and more communication between officers, not space-age technology built into your pistol.

JTROKS
06-10-2009, 2:27 PM
LOL! IFF/SIF on guns. I can see it now, "Movement 25 yards south/southeast, no modes and codes". "Ghostrider, Ghostrider south/southeast squawk all modes and codes". "Ghostrider mode * sweet, I.D. friendly"

bigcalidave
06-10-2009, 2:47 PM
Criminal shoots cop. Takes cops gun. Now other cops can't shoot criminal because their guns think he is a cop !

dfletcher
06-10-2009, 2:51 PM
New York City cop guns talking to each other? There is no way to have real fun with this and not be X rated .....

"Hey - you just shot me in da butt, ya' dumb fud" :oops:

Maddog5150
06-10-2009, 2:53 PM
I was thinking the same thing.
Bad guy has lots of ammo.
Bad guy shoots cop.
Bad guy takes cops gun.
Bad guy plays Iron Man as he mows down other cops.

too many bad scenarios could happen.

snobord99
06-10-2009, 2:56 PM
I reckon it's easier and more effective to just make cops carry something on their person rather than make something they carry on their person carry something.

Pistolwhipped
06-10-2009, 2:57 PM
LOL! I can hear the pistols talking with new yawker accent. " Hay yous! Did yous shoot dat boid?" Why I otta!:rofl:

Ed_in_Sac
06-10-2009, 5:40 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090605/ap_on_re_us/us_cop_shoots_cop



Is it just me or does it seem that are 1000's of ways for this to go wrong?

I am truly sorry about the officer who was shot by his fellow in blue, but this really sounds like a money making scheme by someone. With such a horrendous incident am sure the Police and NYC are obliged to listen to all suggestions, even the quack ones. Just hope they carry through on the training...that would seem to be the best thing to do.

walter
06-10-2009, 7:32 PM
this is retarded...

goathead
06-10-2009, 7:35 PM
blade runner

neomentat
06-10-2009, 7:37 PM
it's only a matter of time before RFID replace the serial number and many other things

st.clouds
06-11-2009, 9:53 AM
I was thinking the same thing.
Bad guy has lots of ammo.
Bad guy shoots cop.
Bad guy takes cops gun.
Bad guy plays Iron Man as he mows down other cops.

too many bad scenarios could happen.

Sorry being in the tech business myself, this is just non-sense.

There're a couple things that can be done to address this problem.

1) Everytime the police goes back to the HQ, the gun can be scanned at the door or checked in at the counter with valid ID/badge. This'll determine, which gun actually comes home at the end of the day.

2) Any gun that doesn't come home, is considered lost or stolen, and will be easily traceable. Shopping malls can be equiped with RFID readers that'll alert the police of lost/stolen gun should 1 ever wander inside the premises.

3) RFID are mighty small, they can be hidden in the slide and another in the frame in such a way that they'd be impossible to remove without destroying the gun.

So actually this scheme could work... there's no argument there, the only thing I'm very worried about is the endless potential for abuse and invasion of privacy were this much power given to the cops.

yellowfin
06-11-2009, 10:13 AM
How about this? Abolish the NYPD, scrap all of NY's gun laws, fire every single one of the dumb s***s at the top down to the middle, and start over? The joke about the gene pool needing some chlorine gets applied x1000 with these folks--I say drain the water, bleach the bottom then sandblast it, fill it with distilled water, put an electrolytic filter on it, then padlock it shut and weld the door.

Iffy
06-11-2009, 12:26 PM
How about this? Abolish the NYPD, scrap all of NY's gun laws, fire every single one of the dumb s***s at the top down to the middle, and start over? The joke about the gene pool needing some chlorine gets applied x1000 with these folks--I say drain the water, bleach the bottom then sandblast it, fill it with distilled water, put an electrolytic filter on it, then padlock it shut and weld the door.

well yeah, but this applies to the nation as a whole. :D

MasterYong
06-11-2009, 1:15 PM
"Officer, why did you shoot that 90-year-old invalid grandmother of 12?"

"Well, I drew my gun, aimed, and the alarm didn't go off! The little thingy sid she was one of the 'Bad Guys'!!!"

Flopper
06-11-2009, 3:50 PM
that's just as stupid as the loaded chamber indicator on rostered handguns. for safety reasons, aren't you always supposed to treat the guns as if it's loaded??? /rhetorical question.

also, just because the guns will say, "COP" to one another, that doesn't mean the target should be shot. it could be LEO that doesn't have the tech in their gun, could be a malfunction, or could be (heaven forbid!) a citizen lawfully using a weapon.

on my look, i think this will just lead to more problems.

fairfaxjim
06-11-2009, 4:09 PM
The NYPD is the largest police force in the country - the NYPD's current authorized uniformed strength is 37,838. There are also approximately 4,500 Auxiliary Police Officers, 5,000 School Safety Agents, 2,300 Traffic Enforcement Agents, and 370 Traffic Enforcement Supervisors currently employed by the department. With that many cops, immagine how many are off duty, carrying guns (which are supposed to be outlawed in NYC) at any one time.

The NYPD has had way more than one incident like this. Many large urban PD's have. Making guns "commmunicate" or "smarter" isn't going to do a damn thing to prevent it, and will probably make it worse, because it will make the officers dumber and reliant on the technology (if they can ever get it to work.)

The real problem is that NYC, as has a number of large urban cities, has made the simple act of having a firearm an "officer executable offence." Officers are trained that the civilian population should not and can not have possession of a firearm, and just about any act is justified to "get the gun off the street." If that was just some civilian who was chasing someone with a gun, they could off him and he would be "just another bad guy with an illegal gun."

As long as we allow the politicans to set LE agencies up to be their own personal agenda enforcers, this sort if thing is going to happen. If the reality of the situation was that it was MORE LIKELY that the person in civilian clothes holding the gun was NOT A BAD GUY, but a LAW ABIDING CITIZEN EXERCISING HIS 2A RIGHTS, then they would have to be properly trained to deal with armed people, not shoot first and spin the press release later.

You-Two
06-11-2009, 9:25 PM
LOL! IFF/SIF on guns. I can see it now, "Movement 25 yards south/southeast, no modes and codes". "Ghostrider, Ghostrider south/southeast squawk all modes and codes". "Ghostrider mode * sweet, I.D. friendly"

Crap...I already sent a Fox Two! Lead...break right and flare like your life counts on it!!!

Good one JTROKS...

Gunm
06-12-2009, 10:09 PM
http://i44.tinypic.com/16annmf.jpg
Can you hear me now?:confused:
http://i42.tinypic.com/204dxk.jpg
Can you hear me now?:p

YoungJoe
06-13-2009, 12:19 AM
If you're into military sci-fi and want to hear what a "smart" gun would say, try "Death's Head."


... or was it "Death Head" ...
nvm. Good book, though.

ERdept
06-13-2009, 2:15 AM
OMFG!