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67siia
06-09-2009, 7:34 PM
So recently I have been doing lots of off road bicycle riding. Over the weekend in a remote area :gene:, we encounter several coyotes - no issues with them this time but, made me think that I shall be packing something while riding. Any suggestion on a small, inexpensive revolver/semi of course it would be carry unloaded... I was looking at the Taurus Judge, dual caliber .45 ands .410 shotgun shell but $500+. My current hand guns are rather bigger than what I want to carry on a bicycle. Many thanks in advance for any comments.

Dangerous1
06-09-2009, 7:36 PM
Where can you ride carrying legally? I'm curious because I'm a mtn biker also.

CA Gun Laws Suck
06-09-2009, 7:38 PM
The Judge is a no go in CA, considered a SBS...

67siia
06-09-2009, 7:51 PM
Where can you ride carrying legally? I'm curious because I'm a mtn biker also.


By definition, as long it is not loaded or concealed, you are OK. Carry a mag or quick loader (for revolvers) separated form the handgun (other pocket)... hopefully the coyotes will give a 2 second head start

67siia
06-09-2009, 7:56 PM
The Judge is a no go in CA, considered a SBS...

Copy that & thanks! just checked the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale in Kalifornia

http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/

ZRT650
06-09-2009, 8:00 PM
By definition, as long it is not loaded or concealed, you are OK. Carry a mag or quick loader (for revolvers) separated form the handgun (other pocket)... hopefully the coyotes will give a 2 second head start

try telling that to an officer and let us know how that works out for you. Would this mean i can start walking around with my holstered glock and mags in my pocket??? I don't think that would go over well

Shane916
06-09-2009, 8:04 PM
try telling that to an officer and let us know how that works out for you. Would this mean i can start walking around with my holstered glock and mags in my pocket??? I don't think that would go over well

Many do it on a regular basis. Technically it is legal, I personally wouldn't, but if you do a search for unloaded open carry there is a lot of info.

GoodEyeSniper
06-09-2009, 8:15 PM
try telling that to an officer and let us know how that works out for you. Would this mean i can start walking around with my holstered glock and mags in my pocket??? I don't think that would go over well

www.californiaopencarry.org

67siia
06-09-2009, 8:17 PM
try telling that to an officer and let us know how that works out for you. Would this mean i can start walking around with my holstered glock and mags in my pocket??? I don't think that would go over well


Here mate, some reading material, enjoy

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=144878

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=191684&highlight=open+carry

http://www.californiaopencarry.org/

http://www.californiaopencarry.org/CaliforniaOpenCarry.pdf

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=82922

67siia
06-09-2009, 8:21 PM
Anyway.... let's not loose the point of this threat.... any suggestion as to what to carry? small, cheap yet effective?

bigcalidave
06-09-2009, 8:24 PM
Carry a little glock 26 or something, one of the small 9s. You really don't need anything else for "nature"
I've got a beretta 950 bs .25 acp which works great, and is TINY... That'll at least scare away a coyote, if not kill it.

joeyriv
06-09-2009, 8:31 PM
You can follow the rules for Open Carry in California. When I'm out on NF land searching for that perfect singletrack, I'm usually loaded. When riding in town, I make sure to follow the all laws that pertain (UOC, school zones, etc) and have not had any problems... so far.

cineski
06-09-2009, 8:32 PM
You'll need more than a 9mm for nature. Get a .40 or .45 semi auto. I personally prefer semi autos for carry in the woods here because they're quick to make loaded under stress which makes me feel good about carrying an unloaded gun for animal defense. A gun really won't do much for you in reality because if you see a mountain lion, it's not attacking you. They usually get you from behind in a surprise attack. 2 adult bikers in Irvine were killed a few years ago by a mountain lion. Carry a big knife within easy reach. Keep the gun for helping others.

bigcalidave
06-09-2009, 8:39 PM
For what nature???? Whenever I see something when I'm out riding, I see it either far away, which I could scare off with anything, or I pass it at 20 mph and say "was that a bear?" Either way I wouldn't want to pack around my 1911 on my bike. Light is everything. Pocket 9, or smaller. Otherwise just clamp your shotgun to your head tube... :)

67siia
06-09-2009, 8:46 PM
The Beretta 950 bs I like. It would only be to scare off what ever we encounter that poses a threat and to provide some piece of mind if we were to encountered some idiot with other ideas- they are everywhere!!

cineski, I do recall the incident in Irvine, sad story

ZRT650
06-09-2009, 8:50 PM
After reading the law enforcement memo i stand corrected,please excuse my ignorance. If this is the case who is down to organize a nor-cal oc demonstration?

cineski
06-09-2009, 9:23 PM
There's a whole bunch of choices for a .45 aside from a 1911. Also, if you're not aware, there are mountain lions in the Angeles forest, as well as the Santa Monica mountains, all over the surrounding areas of LA/OC/Venture/SB. I'm sorry if you're not local in this discussion, but most of CA has mountain lions. My buddy saw a full grown lion cross a trail in the Verdugo hills which is surrounded by people. There's also bears all over the San Bernardino forest, which to be honest I'm not worried about but back in the Midwest there are bear attacks. It's the cougars I worry about.....which you won't see if they're going to attack you. I'm sorry, but IMO a 9mm is not enough for these animals. A .40/45 and a 7" knife. You'll never get to your sidearm in the event of an attack. But it could be used to help others.

Of course, this has been discussed till we're blue in the face.

For what nature???? Whenever I see something when I'm out riding, I see it either far away, which I could scare off with anything, or I pass it at 20 mph and say "was that a bear?" Either way I wouldn't want to pack around my 1911 on my bike. Light is everything. Pocket 9, or smaller. Otherwise just clamp your shotgun to your head tube... :)

cineski
06-09-2009, 9:32 PM
OP: Check out the Kahr P45, P40, XD40sc, XD45. Excellent choices for light weight. You'll probably have the best luck finding a .40 right now, as there seems to be tons of them around.

Dangerous1
06-09-2009, 9:39 PM
So... would I look ridiculous with my USP on a paddle holster and a mag in my mag pouch, while riding my mountain bike? I can picture it now, "There's a search through the local mountains of an armed man on a bicycle..." :|

Capaholic
06-09-2009, 9:52 PM
I bet you'd have a ton of confidence riding with a Glock 29 10mm and Busse Hell Razor!

SJgunguy24
06-09-2009, 10:02 PM
I bet you'd have a ton of confidence riding with a Glock 29 10mm and Busse Hell Razor!

Damn, beat me to it. Or go with a Glock 33, sub compact 357 sig.

If i'm out hiking or riding up in the hills i'm gotta have something. I'm sorry my life is worth a carry charge. If it's me or a couger, bear, pot farmer, or a tweek........i'm coming home to see my babys.

Rivers
06-09-2009, 10:55 PM
A cautionary note, don't carry in a holster on your hip. Think about WHEN you fall, what parts of your body do you land on, other than your head. Usually the hip. That would be bad enough without a hard chunk of metal in the way. I'd think about a shoulder holster or a fanny pack worn in front. Definitely never over the spine. It's possible that an easily accessed can of bear spray on the handle bars might be a better answer to the problem.

GoodEyeSniper
06-09-2009, 11:03 PM
A cautionary note, don't carry in a holster on your hip. Think about WHEN you fall, what parts of your body do you land on, other than your head. Usually the hip. That would be bad enough without a hard chunk of metal in the way. I'd think about a shoulder holster or a fanny pack worn in front. Definitely never over the spine. It's possible that an easily accessed can of bear spray on the handle bars might be a better answer to the problem.

I think the fanny pack is a no go. Because then it would be concealed.

That said, a nice can of Bear Mace is probably by far your best option. Highly effective, and none of the legal issues that UOCers face. "Oh, but you can't UOC on a tuesday at high noon, unless you do three jumping jacks and recite the Canadian National Anthem whenever you come within 5000 feet of a squirrel nest."

Canute
06-09-2009, 11:42 PM
I carry bear spray in one of the outer pockets of my Camelbak.
I'm touring (road) out of state this summer and have a Utah CCW and a J frame to be dropped into a fanny pack.

aplinker
06-10-2009, 12:14 AM
First off, if the area you're in is unincorporated, you can carry loaded (any place discharge is legally).

I wouldn't want to fall on a holstered gun while biking. You should consider alternative ways of carrying.

If the area you're in is really populated by bears, then I wouldn't accept anything smaller than a .41mag/10mm (with PROPER LOADS) or a .44mag. If bears aren't the primary issue, you can step down to more traditional defensive calibers/guns.

Taurus makes reasonably priced revolvers. Skip the Judge - it's not only illegal and unavailable in CA, but a ridiculous firearm. You can buy shotshells for any pistol cartridge size.

Lastly, consider a rifle/shotgun. Cheaper, you could put it in a scabbard on the bike... And you would have more power than you need.

kaboom
06-10-2009, 12:36 AM
How strange. The only animal I ever worry about in remote areas is humans.
That said, you just need something small, easy to carry that makes a loud noise. Bear repellent may also be safer for both parties involved.


ETA: 100 posts! No more calling me junior!

cineski
06-10-2009, 6:52 AM
What about a holster mounted to the bike? Just throwing thoughts around, but that might be viable. It'd have to be mounted very securely.

glock_this
06-10-2009, 7:04 AM
Anyway.... let's not loose the point of this threat.... any suggestion as to what to carry? small, cheap yet effective?

I love cycling, and I love guns, but I would never mix the 2 like this. coyotes? please, they are not a threat. I have logged 10's of thousands of miles riding - road and mtn - all over the USA and parts of Canada, never never felt the need to do this. you need to fear people and traffic, not some crazy raccoon.

ADAM
06-10-2009, 7:39 AM
i think you can open cary while in the blm or mountains

ADAM
06-10-2009, 7:42 AM
you say coyotes are no threat, than you havent seen coyotes attack when there sick with rabies o yes they do.

glock_this
06-10-2009, 7:47 AM
you say coyotes are no threat, than you havent seen coyotes attack when there sick with rabies o yes they do.

your right.. I have not.... and I have logged thousands and thousands of miles on mtn bikes in the backcountry. not to mention the thousands running trails. no to mention the hundreds back packing. plus all the kooky country roads I have ridden with mean dogs off leashes chasing me.

get the point? I am back there a lot.

yes, it 'could' happen, hell a piece of blue ice from an airplane toilet 'could' fall out of the sky and hit you in the head, but look at the odds and numbers.... slim to none! come on, it is just a way for a person who likes guns to come up with an artful and legal way to carry one that will never be needed.

rkt88edmo
06-10-2009, 7:58 AM
yes, it 'could' happen, hell a piece of blue ice from an airplane toilet 'could' fall out of the sky and hit you in the head, but look at the odds and numbers.... slim to none! come on, it is just a way for a person who likes guns to come up with an artful and legal way to carry one that will never be needed.

But you'd whip out your pistol and blast that ice to pieces before it hits the ground!

ponderosa
06-10-2009, 8:16 AM
your right.. I have not.... and I have logged thousands and thousands of miles on mtn bikes in the backcountry. not to mention the thousands running trails. no to mention the hundreds back packing. plus all the kooky country roads I have ridden with mean dogs off leashes chasing me.

get the point? I am back there a lot.

yes, it 'could' happen, hell a piece of blue ice from an airplane toilet 'could' fall out of the sky and hit you in the head, but look at the odds and numbers.... slim to none! come on, it is just a way for a person who likes guns to come up with an artful and legal way to carry one that will never be needed.

+1 :iagree:

I stopped on a ride once and had a bear walk down the hill toward me in the brush, at about 7 feet we saw each other, we both went our own way. I like the knife idea for cougars, one jump on you you're probably going to be hurting and not able to get to your gun after falling off your bike with jaws embedded in the back of your neck... sure there may be a need for a good pistol, but more likely for human nutjobs and domesticated dogs IMO.

And I certainly wouldn't be messing myself if I came across any yotes either.

That said, i don't see why UOC shouldn't be done if you felt like it, it is your RIGHT! :cool2:

masameet
06-10-2009, 9:18 AM
My favorite bicyclist with gun story happened a few years ago in San Francisco. Late at night/early in the a.m. some guy was riding homebound. He found himself surround by some bad guys bent on robbing him. He pulled out a handgun and fired. One bad guy ended up dead, the others scattered. He cycled away. SFPD wanted him to come in and talk, but I think he stayed quiet.

I'm thinking this event unfolded on Turk or Eddy, or maybe even Fulton or McAllister, just west of Gough, and near public housing.

cineski
06-10-2009, 9:20 AM
SFPD wanted him to come in and talk? Really? I'm surprised they didn't just bust his door down and drag him in.

Dangerous1
06-10-2009, 10:08 AM
Personally, I've ridden in a few remote places where it was very eerie to be alone. It would've been nice to have a gun just for a confidence booster.

Anyways, if my daughter was out hiking or mountain biking with her girlfriend, I'd worry about her safety against unsavory people on the trail. I think that if her or her friend was armed and knew how to handle their firearm, I'd feel better.

APNF128
06-10-2009, 10:14 AM
I sincerly believed the coyote threat is only in your mind! I think you are more of a threat to them than them to you. If you have no ccw permit do not carry by doing so you are only exposing yourself to a lot of legal troubles if you happen to shoot one even for reason of self defense. If you still insist of carrying that's your choice, but I suggest you start putting some money aside for lawyer's fee should you need it someday.

cineski
06-10-2009, 10:39 AM
This is why you go to places where it's a lot of work to get there. Weeds out most of the bad people.

dwtt
06-10-2009, 11:45 AM
This is why you go to places where it's a lot of work to get there. Weeds out most of the bad people.

There was a time when this was true and I didn't have to worry about meeting up with humans when mountain biking or back packing, but that may not be true anymore. If I were to revisit some of the trails I had once hiked or ridden, I would want to carry along some insurance against certain human contact.

smle-man
06-10-2009, 12:08 PM
There's a whole bunch of choices for a .45 aside from a 1911. Also, if you're not aware, there are mountain lions in the Angeles forest, as well as the Santa Monica mountains, all over the surrounding areas of LA/OC/Venture/SB. I'm sorry if you're not local in this discussion, but most of CA has mountain lions. My buddy saw a full grown lion cross a trail in the Verdugo hills which is surrounded by people. There's also bears all over the San Bernardino forest, which to be honest I'm not worried about but back in the Midwest there are bear attacks. It's the cougars I worry about.....which you won't see if they're going to attack you. I'm sorry, but IMO a 9mm is not enough for these animals. A .40/45 and a 7" knife. You'll never get to your sidearm in the event of an attack. But it could be used to help others.

Of course, this has been discussed till we're blue in the face.


FWIW I was pretty close to a full size mountain lion near burnt peak above Lake Elizabeth two years ago. They are in the vicinity of the Santa Clarita metro area too. Actually neither bears nor mountain lions are my worry. It is the two legged predators that I am wary of.

bigcalidave
06-10-2009, 3:06 PM
I live way up north where there are tons of mountain lions and bears where we ride. My .25 will scare off any predator in California. Its also small enough to fit in any pocket. Did someone really say scabbard ? Have you ridden a bicycle ? Lol. I agree the tweakers and pot farmers are a much larger threat. Still the .25 works if it has to. They usually don't attack bikers up here though. I've had run ins with them driving the trails in my truck though. Gets your heart racing when they pop out of the woods with a rifle to ask what you're doing out there. :)

masameet
06-10-2009, 6:35 PM
SFPD wanted him to come in and talk? Really? I'm surprised they didn't just bust his door down and drag him in.

I guess SFPD just never learned who the bicyclist was. So you could say somebody got away with murder (even though it was allegedly in self-defense).

AJAX22
06-10-2009, 6:46 PM
Look into getting a holster made which can be mounted to the bike (suspended in the top of the frame)

You will have it on you, but won't have the risks involved with wearing/landing on a holster.

67siia
06-10-2009, 7:23 PM
Two of my MTB buddies carry Glock26, the size is just a bit bigger than I want to carry, I am incline on the Beretta 950 Jetfire AND it is on the CA Handgun approved list.. just having a difficult time finding one locally (3 different FFLs), ammo I am not concern it would only be of MTBing not for plinking... I got plenty of .22, 9mm and 45 in the safe.

67siia
06-10-2009, 7:23 PM
Forgot!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_950_Jetfire

67siia
06-10-2009, 7:28 PM
Any thoughts on Phoenix HP25A?

Just read very bad reviews

67siia
06-10-2009, 7:43 PM
What about a holster mounted to the bike? Just throwing thoughts around, but that might be viable. It'd have to be mounted very securely.

Found this... something similar

http://www.trigeeks.ca/images/bentobox.jpg

aplinker
06-10-2009, 10:14 PM
If money is really the issue, the Hi Point goes bang.

Used 38 revolvers can be had for around $200

cineski
06-10-2009, 10:24 PM
That would probably be considered concealed. I'd try finding a way to mount an actual holster, with a thumb release on it to really keep the gun holstered through a bumpy ride.

Found this... something similar

http://www.trigeeks.ca/images/bentobox.jpg

ERdept
06-10-2009, 10:24 PM
I used to manage a bike shop called Jones Bicycles in Long Beach.

We got a few customers that came in and were pushed off their bikes on the San Gabriel river trail and had their bikes stolen.

They both independently said they were going to carry (illegally) next time they rode the trail. Which I can't condone.

We'd get stolen bikes brought to the shop by the shadiest of people. You know, the guy didn't match the race bike and they'd try to sell a $1000 bike for $100.

We never bought them to do our part to not contribute to the stolen bike business.

67siia
06-10-2009, 10:49 PM
That would probably be considered concealed. I'd try finding a way to mount an actual holster, with a thumb release on it to really keep the gun holstered through a bumpy ride.

Mag on the side pouch... problem solved!!

bluestaterebel
06-11-2009, 7:56 AM
I used to manage a bike shop called Jones Bicycles in Long Beach.

We got a few customers that came in and were pushed off their bikes on the San Gabriel river trail and had their bikes stolen.

They both independently said they were going to carry (illegally) next time they rode the trail. Which I can't condone.

We'd get stolen bikes brought to the shop by the shadiest of people. You know, the guy didn't match the race bike and they'd try to sell a $1000 bike for $100.

We never bought them to do our part to not contribute to the stolen bike business.

I ride the same trail that is so convenient for the long stretch of concrete from the mountains to the beach and lack of cars accidentally running you over. But there are some shady charachters loitering there, usually under the bridges. I started carrying my S&W 642 w/38 SPL +P. It fits nicely into one of my cycling jersey pockets and doesnt weight too much, I hardly notice it.

As far as open carry on hip, somebody mentioned the possibility of falling on your hip. I guess its possible but bicycle cops carry on there hip all of the time with no problems.

RAMCHARGER
06-11-2009, 4:32 PM
I always carry a cold steel tanto when riding in the boonies.

sb_pete
06-11-2009, 9:40 PM
Just carry a mop like these guys :chris::
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drclark
06-12-2009, 6:14 AM
I used to ride a lot. Not so much any more due to life and work taking more time. Anyways, I think the best bet for protection against animals is to ride with atleast one or more partners. I actually know one of the girls who were involved in the OC mtn lion incident. The guy who died was riding alone. The girl who survived was riding with a friend who basically played tug of war with the cat. She had the girl by the feet while the cat had the head/neck. She was able to hold onto her friend until a couple of other guys showed up and was able to scare the cat off by hitting it with some large rocks. The cat attacked from the rear. The girl who got attacked had litterally just gone around a switchback a couple of seconds ahead of her friend. All the friend saw was the feet & legs of the victim being dragged into the brush. The girl who was attacked had no time to react and was basically in shock. The point of all of this is had the girl been attacked been riding alone, she wold be dead regardless of any weaponry she might have been carrying.

That being said, the chances of having an issue with a wild animal while riding are pretty slim. Two legged thugs are a legitimate concern. I won't comment on choice of carry or legal issues since everyone has to make their own personal decisions about that. There are some things to consider if choosing to carry while riding.

Salt/Sweat & dirt: whatever firearm you choose, consider the environment it will be subject to. When I ride it is not uncommon for all my clothes, helmet and camelbak to be soaked with sweat and crusted with salt. If riding mtb, your firearm will also be subject to fine dust/dirt during normal riding and possibly be caked if you fall. You'll want a pistol that will stand up to those conditons and be prepared to clean it after every ride.

Carry method: I would recommend against strapping the gun/holster to the bike. If a thug knocks you off your bike, the thug just stole your bike and gun. Gun should be readily accessible but also secure if you fall. Also, those who mtb need to consider the possibility of an ND if a tree branch works its way into a trigger guard during a fall or while riding in near thick brush. Some sort of holster that protects the trigger is a must.

Getting to/from the car: while some form of carry may be legal on the trail/land you are riding on, access to those trails may be thru parkland or other areas where carry may be prohibited. Make sure you understand the legalities of all areas your route may take you thru.

just my thoughts,
drc

so who is going to organize the first calguns mtb ride?

cineski
06-12-2009, 6:35 AM
Interesting thoughts, DrClark. The thought of falling on your gun can be legitimate. A year ago I took a nasty dive. Broke 2 teeth and fractured my elbow. I wasn't wearing a gun but if I had can only imagine that is would have hurt pretty good. A thigh holster may be the ticket? What are your thoughts?

drclark
06-12-2009, 7:26 AM
Everyone who chooses to carry while riding really needs to think about they type of riding they usually do, the type of terrain they usually ride, and the population density of the area they ride. It will probably take some experimentation to figure out what works best for each individual.

Personally, A thigh holster is going to stick out from you right/left side and may snag brush easily if riding tight single track. Also, the weight, of even the lightest gun strapped to my thigh, might get very annoying on a long ride and probably chaff your leg on a long ride.

A hip holster might work but I tend to fall on my right hip when I do dump my bike.

The best idea, I could come up with is some sort of shoulder type retention rig attached to a camelbak strap (i ride mostly mountain - roadies don't tend to like camelbaks). However, I live and ride in areas mostly in LA and OC so any kind of open carry is probably not a good idea. Too many sheeple who might freak.

I currently choose to ride with a fixed blade knife on my camelbak as part of my survival kit that also contains things like a spaceblanket, signal mirror, fire starter, etc. I've been riding with a SOG sealpup since the OC mtn lion incident occurred and have never had a problem with other riders/hikers or rangers/law enforcement (i do take the knife off my pack if I am simply doing a beach ride on the bike path though).

drc

punisheryayarea
06-12-2009, 9:34 AM
So recently I have been doing lots of off road bicycle riding. Over the weekend in a remote area :gene:, we encounter several coyotes - no issues with them this time but, made me think that I shall be packing something while riding. Any suggestion on a small, inexpensive revolver/semi of course it would be carry unloaded... I was looking at the Taurus Judge, dual caliber .45 ands .410 shotgun shell but $500+. My current hand guns are rather bigger than what I want to carry on a bicycle. Many thanks in advance for any comments.


Cant get that New in California

eccvets
06-12-2009, 2:00 PM
you say coyotes are no threat, than you havent seen coyotes attack when there sick with rabies o yes they do.


I'd watch out for the skunks! Their the ones which probally have rabies. Them and bats are scary! My rabies titiers are up to par though some I'm safe... well relativly safe.


in anycase i highly suggest 10mm+ although anything is better then nothing. Personnally I'd be more scared of humans. their the crazy ones.

SLO_Ryan
06-12-2009, 2:36 PM
Just carry a mop like these guys :chris::
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LOL, what movie is that from?

Timberline
06-12-2009, 8:05 PM
I just can't see the justification for killing a coyote, even one that might "scare" a bicyclist. They want nothing to do with us, just to be left alone, and their songs are beautiful... no more delicate and haunting sounds have I heard in the wilderness than coyotes calling to each other up and down a canyon.

Lucky Scott
06-13-2009, 3:17 AM
Coyotes are really not a threat. They want to stay away from you if at all possible, unless there is a food source (or water).
Very rare to have one attack a human.
That being said, other forms of threats may warrant protection.
I would probably but a small semi auto in a fanny pack. A bicycle is the one place a fanny pack does not look out of place.

SJgunguy24
06-13-2009, 6:06 AM
The best way i've carried and nobody had a clue, a chest rig. Under the outer most layer but on top of the base layers. Straps for the backpack help to break up lines and I tend to wear looser fitting tops anyway. It helps when I crash......a little.