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View Full Version : What Documentation should i show LEO's?


Tacit Blue
06-05-2009, 8:53 PM
I was wondering what would be the best choice of documents regarding a AR15 OLL build? For i.e my build has a radlock installed. There are several references regarding alot of different laws and features, and the definitions already make it seem very vague and confusing for somebody trying to enforce laws. I have printed the following docs to go into my gun case along with the rifle:

http://www.calguns.net/copmemo2.pdf
http://calguns.net/a_california_arak.htm

I would like the best document available possible, that is direct and straight froward for a officer who might be confused about the status of the law.


Thanks....

Jwood562
06-05-2009, 10:38 PM
Honestly since the odds of you running in to a LEO that knows the OLL stuff is a crap shoot. So I would just suggest having the DROS form showing you own the firearm and maybe the calguns flow chart showing its non AW.

remeber the easier the better. the DROS form is straight forward and probably enough for most cops, if they ask more questions show them the flow chart. do not hand them piles of paper work and expect them to sift though it out where you guys have contact

Jonathan Doe
06-05-2009, 10:53 PM
Honestly since the odds of you running in to a LEO that knows the OLL stuff is a crap shoot. So I would just suggest having the DROS form showing you own the firearm and maybe the calguns flow chart showing its non AW.

remeber the easier the better. the DROS form is straight forward and probably enough for most cops, if they ask more questions show them the flow chart. do not hand them piles of paper work and expect them to sift though it out where you guys have contact

I think it is a good suggestion. I carry a copy of AW registration in the stock of my registered Bushmaster for just in case.

Tacit Blue
06-05-2009, 11:00 PM
Honestly since the odds of you running in to a LEO that knows the OLL stuff is a crap shoot. So I would just suggest having the DROS form showing you own the firearm and maybe the calguns flow chart showing its non AW.

remeber the easier the better. the DROS form is straight forward and probably enough for most cops, if they ask more questions show them the flow chart. do not hand them piles of paper work and expect them to sift though it out where you guys have contact


Exactly the Dros should be the only paper work required.... Maybe Bruce colodny's Attorney at law card as a Deterrence ;)

SkyStorm82
06-06-2009, 7:34 AM
I'd let you go with just a calguns sticker...:thumbsup:

Jwood562
06-06-2009, 4:06 PM
I'd let you go with just a calguns sticker...:thumbsup:


haha me too...seriously

but just keep it simple for other officers and keep your DROS with you and maybe the flow chart

SVT-40
06-06-2009, 7:58 PM
One other thing to keep in minds which many LEO's forget. It's prohibited by CLETS rules for LEO's to run assault weapon registration info over the radio. It's also prohibited for dispatch to broadcast registered assault weapons info over the radio.

CLETS is the California Law Enforcement Telecommunications System.

These rules only apply to REGISTERED ASSAULT WEAPONS not OLL's.

buggsb
06-09-2009, 7:31 PM
All good advice here, but the best advice is not to put yourself in a position where you would ever need to be explaining about your OLL to a LEO. Cops typically don't go checking for this stuff at ranges and your not going to get pulled out of your car and searched for a minor traffic violation. There's nothing wrong with keeping proper documentation with you (and I encourage it), but if you never do anything to warrant the officer to question you then things will be that much easier.

HotRails
06-09-2009, 10:48 PM
How about an AK OLL built from a flat? I was thinking maybe the AW flow chart and an ATF letter that states its legal to build your own rifle.

eltee
06-09-2009, 11:01 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/eltee49/Gunz/Mag%20Lock%20Devices/AWmaglockcopy.jpg

For a Bullet Button / Raddlock equipped rifle, the above card (laminated and kept in the gun bag, or in the gun's stock storage area, etc.) should give an investigating officer unfamiliar with the non-detachable / tool required magazines legal mumbo jumbo something to look up in the field (via radio, docked computer, MDT, CPC in the car, etc.). If he chooses unwisely to take some sort of enforcement action it will come up in court that you had that information and shared same with the officer.

Not ironclad, but better than stammering and trying to remember the ipsos from the factos and the pertinent codes and sections while tap dancing in front of a cop with no sense of humor or knowledge of OLL's with non removeable magazines.

Jwood562
06-10-2009, 12:07 AM
One other thing to keep in minds which many LEO's forget. It's prohibited by CLETS rules for LEO's to run assault weapon registration info over the radio. It's also prohibited for dispatch to broadcast registered assault weapons info over the radio.

CLETS is the California Law Enforcement Telecommunications System.

These rules only apply to REGISTERED ASSAULT WEAPONS not OLL's.

good info. I did not know that.

Ron-Solo
06-10-2009, 7:09 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/eltee49/Gunz/Mag%20Lock%20Devices/AWmaglockcopy.jpg

For a Bullet Button / Raddlock equipped rifle, the above card (laminated and kept in the gun bag, or in the gun's stock storage area, etc.) should give an investigating officer unfamiliar with the non-detachable / tool required magazines legal mumbo jumbo something to look up in the field (via radio, docked computer, MDT, CPC in the car, etc.). If he chooses unwisely to take some sort of enforcement action it will come up in court that you had that information and shared same with the officer.

Not ironclad, but better than stammering and trying to remember the ipsos from the factos and the pertinent codes and sections while tap dancing in front of a cop with no sense of humor or knowledge of OLL's with non removeable magazines.

Very well stated. THIS is what this forum is for, sharing of good information to make contacts between gun owners professional and non-confrontational and informative.

Thank you for your post

bootcamp
06-10-2009, 8:57 AM
What if you lost your DROS paperwork? Are you SOL? My stripped lower was drosed back in 2005. That piece of paper was folded up or crumpled somewhere.

Ron-Solo
06-10-2009, 3:47 PM
I think I'd go with eltee's post. I'm going to do one for my non-LEO son who has an OLL.

Thanks eltee

7222 Hawker
06-11-2009, 3:49 PM
I think it is a good suggestion. I carry a copy of AW registration in the stock of my registered Bushmaster for just in case.

Good idea. Where would I get a copy of my original AW registration paperwork? I don't know if I ever got a hard copy in the mail but that was a long time ago.

eltee
06-11-2009, 5:16 PM
If you go on to the CA DOJ Firearms branch website, there is a link to ask a question. Request a copy or two of your AW registration letter. They will send it out pretty quickly.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/contact.php

NuGunner
06-11-2009, 8:58 PM
One other thing to keep in minds which many LEO's forget. It's prohibited by CLETS rules for LEO's to run assault weapon registration info over the radio. It's also prohibited for dispatch to broadcast registered assault weapons info over the radio.

CLETS is the California Law Enforcement Telecommunications System.

These rules only apply to REGISTERED ASSAULT WEAPONS not OLL's.

Repectfully I would love to know the section that says that, I'm in the academy and just took a test on that LD. I don't recall it saying anything about that only about no mobile access to CHS, or CORI.

eltee
06-12-2009, 9:19 AM
IIRC, the proscription only applies to open, over the air, voice transmission. MDT, etc. requests are not prohibited. In my case, I'd just use a cell phone and call it in directly anyway so I don't have to go back to the car and try to squeeze in among all the junk and try to look at a serial # while typing in an entry while keeping an eye on the person(s) I took the gun(s) from.

SVT-40
06-12-2009, 3:48 PM
Repectfully I would love to know the section that says that, I'm in the academy and just took a test on that LD. I don't recall it saying anything about that only about no mobile access to CHS, or CORI.

It's buried deep in the CLETS users manual. I no longer have access to a manual, But if someone here does they can get the "section" if there is one. It's not in the PC if I recall. Probably in some other obscure code.

Most, as said above by eltee. Most LEO's use a cell phone to run registered AW checks. The reason for the rule is anyone can monitor a open Police radio. It would be easy to obtain what type of AW the person being checked has and their home address simply by listening to a Police radio.

An easy setup for a theft or other crime.

lrdchivalry
06-17-2009, 11:09 AM
It's buried deep in the CLETS users manual. I no longer have access to a manual, But if someone here does they can get the "section" if there is one. It's not in the PC if I recall. Probably in some other obscure code.

Most, as said above by eltee. Most LEO's use a cell phone to run registered AW checks. The reason for the rule is anyone can monitor a open Police radio. It would be easy to obtain what type of AW the person being checked has and their home address simply by listening to a Police radio.

An easy setup for a theft or other crime.

I swear it's also in the PC but I am having difficulty finding it.

I think I might have found it.

12288.5. (a) No peace officer or dispatcher shall broadcast over a
police radio that an individual has registered, or has obtained a
permit to possess, an assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle pursuant to
this chapter, unless there exists a reason to believe in good faith
that one of the following conditions exist:
(1) The individual has engaged, or may be engaged, in criminal
conduct.
(2) The police are responding to a call in which the person
allegedly committing a criminal violation may gain access to the
assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle.
(3) The victim, witness, or person who reported the alleged
criminal violation may be using the assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle
to hold the person allegedly committing the criminal violation or may
be using the weapon in defense of himself, herself, or other
persons.
(b) This section shall not prohibit a peace officer or dispatcher
from broadcasting over a police radio that an individual has not
registered, or has not obtained a permit to possess, an assault
weapon or .50 BMG rifle pursuant to this chapter.
(c) This section does not limit the transmission of an assault
weapon or a .50 BMG rifle ownership status via law enforcement
computers or any other medium that is legally accessible only to
peace officers or other authorized personnel.